Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by Mooseman:

He said he would hold out if franchised. He would play the right side then take over Sherm in a year.

Ramsey is not a fa. His 5th year option was exercised so he's under contract this year.

You are right. My bad. He is a FA next year. I think he would be great for us.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I wish AB81 was still around. He said months ago this could be done and left all of the breadcrumbs as to how. As for this tag and trade stuff, it's silly. That's a last resort if the two sides can't come to an agreement which I doubt will happen because AA has given every indication he wants to stay. What player has anyone ever openly said they would play on the franchise tag? AA wants to be here. We can get this done. If we end up trading him (which we can't until he's under contract), it won't be this year.

Where'd AB81 go? Whom am I going to trust when I have a cap question? He's always been willing to answer my questions.

Originally posted by evil:

Then the Rams will trade him. They didn't surrender a boat load of picks to let him walk.

I would bet on a LTD getting done between Jr and the Rams.

Rams are definitely going to sign him to a long-term deal, they would've not giving up that draft capital so Ramsey has all the cards on this one. We are going to keep Emmanuel Sanders because we did get rid of a third and fourth round pick to acquire him even though we got a fifth round back that's a pretty high fifth.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by evil:
Then the Rams will trade him. They didn't surrender a boat load of picks to let him walk.

I would bet on a LTD getting done between Jr and the Rams.

Rams are definitely going to sign him to a long-term deal, they would've not giving up that draft capital so Ramsey has all the cards on this one. We are going to keep Emmanuel Sanders because we did get rid of a third and fourth round pick to acquire him even though we got a fifth round back that's a pretty high fifth.

The 5th rounder is #15 in the round, 16 slots behind our ex-4th rounder.

So, love what AA did this season but with the market being what it is I just dont see how we can keep him.

Anybody know how the Lions dline is setup for next season. The rumor online is Slay may be avail. for a trade?

I would think we could get Slay at a slight discount vs AA's contract but not sure about that.

Just think the secondary is more of a concern than the dline.

Originally posted by rk1642:
So, love what AA did this season but with the market being what it is I just dont see how we can keep him.

Anybody know how the Lions dline is setup for next season. The rumor online is Slay may be avail. for a trade?

I would think we could get Slay at a slight discount vs AA's contract but not sure about that.

Just think the secondary is more of a concern than the dline.

I'm confused....you want to trade AA for Slay? They'd have to tag AA first. Also SF would have to give Slay a big fat contract and he's 29 coming off one of his worst seasons as a pro.

no thanks.

Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

and you have to pay him top money. No thanks. We're going down the Rams path throwing top end picks for guys in contract yrs. He's older as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

and you have to pay him top money. No thanks. We're going down the Rams path throwing top end picks for guys in contract yrs. He's older as well.

Give him a 5 year deal and he'd still be only 33 year old.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

and you have to pay him top money. No thanks. We're going down the Rams path throwing top end picks for guys in contract yrs. He's older as well.

Give him a 5 year deal and he'd still be only 33 year old.

He's 29. He was also the 87th ranked CB last yr. He wasn't great this past season.

I'd rather give that money to a younger guy that was built up in this system. Someone that we KNOW plays well in this scheme. Again I'm not all about giving up more draft picks for "older" players that need to be paid top dollar.

SF needs to be able to draft/develop DBs and I think they did with Mosely.

big pass for me.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

and you have to pay him top money. No thanks. We're going down the Rams path throwing top end picks for guys in contract yrs. He's older as well.

Bingo!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Slay for a 2021 second I'd do.

and you have to pay him top money. No thanks. We're going down the Rams path throwing top end picks for guys in contract yrs. He's older as well.

Give him a 5 year deal and he'd still be only 33 year old.

He's 29. He was also the 87th ranked CB last yr. He wasn't great this past season.

I'd rather give that money to a younger guy that was built up in this system. Someone that we KNOW plays well in this scheme. Again I'm not all about giving up more draft picks for "older" players that need to be paid top dollar.

SF needs to be able to draft/develop DBs and I think they did with Mosely.

big pass for me.

We also need aa many quality players on rookie deals as possible. A big G
FA signing is not the route to go. We are also likely to recoup a comp pick or 2 depending on who we don't resign. Its not likely we get Nick Bosa impact from a rookie we draft going forward, but more Deebo Samuelses, more Dre Greenlaws, more Ronald Blairs, DJ Joneses, etc is absolutely possible.

I've been thinking about AA all day. As much as I would like to keep him, I think the best option for the team is to move on. His market is going to be expensive. Some will argue there are ways to manipulate the cap. I don't doubt that. What I do know is we have 2 large extensions to players better than Armstead. Kittle and Buckner. One thing to keep in mind with AA is he will somewhat set a market for Buckner. Since Buckner is without a doubt a much better player than AA, Buckner will be licking his chops if the 49ers commit a long term deal with AA in the annual range of 16-18 million a year.

The best move for the team imo is to tag and trade Armstead. Do what the Texans did with Clowney and Chiefs did with Ford.

We know the team is short on draft picks this year. Many have suggested a trade out of the 1st to recoup extra picks. The problem with this strategy is we do not know who will be available when the 49ers draft. This class is deep at WR and OL. And there are some good QBs in this class making it all the more likely a player whom the 9ers covet will be there at 31. I think it would be foolish for them to dismiss the pick entirely in hope for a trade down.

So how can the 49ers come away with more picks and still have a formidable defensive line next year? I think the answer is to trade Armstead. The next question would be what is Armsteads worth? Given his production, his age, and his ability to play anywhere on the line. This is how I see it.

10-15% the 49ers can get a late 1st
55-65% the 49ers can get an early 2nd
70-90% the 49ers can get a late 2nd
100% the 49ers can get a 3rd and a 4th

Any of these options are better to me than letting AA walk completely and getting a 3rd round comp next year, or, tagging him this year and letting him walk in 2021 and receiving a 3rd rounder in 2022. Or signing him to a massive extension at 16-18 million annually for 5-6 years.

Assuming we can tag and trade AA, which in my opinion seems highly likely given his value and the need at the position. What are the 49ers options to replace him?

1. Solomon Thomas. Trust me, I'm not excited about this anymore than you are. However there are some things to note. Pff has generally liked Thomas as a run defender whether inside or out. We know he plays better as a pass rusher on the inside. His cap hit is 8.9 million and it's been rumored the 49ers might have to attach a pick to trade him to save roughly 4 million on the cap while still being responsible for the other 4 million. That doesn't seem wise to me. The question for the coaches is pretty simple.

On running downs is a line of

Bucker/Thomas/DJ Jones/Bosa or
Thomas/Buckner/Jones/Bosa

And on passing downs

Ford/Buckner/Thomas/Bosa

A significant detriment to the defensive line as a whole unit? With these units Thomas will have much of the 1 on 1 opportunities Armstead had inside this year. While I'm certainly not convinced Thomas is nearly as good as AA, Thomas will have plenty of opportunities in both the run game and passing game to beat interior 1 on 1 matchups.

One important note in all of this is Armstead was virtually a non factor in his first 4 years in the league. Flip through this thread and you can see the majority of the posts are scrutinizing his play. It wasn't until Ford and Bosa came along that AA was able to flourish. Could Thomas be on a similar path to success? I think he has a great opportunity to do so. And his cap hit of 8.9 million will be the difference in being able to resign Ward or Sanders, possibly both, instead of paying Armstead.

2. Free agency

I started browsing through potential 4-3 DT's on Walter football and a couple players stood out to me as guys the 49ers could bring in on short term deals that could flourish with Buckner, Jones, Ford, and Bosa. Given age, injury history, and previous salaries these players aren't neccesarily getting long term deals except maybe Jefferson, he is only 26.

1. Michael Brockers
2. Quinten Jefferson
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Timmy Jernigan
5. Shelby Harris

I'm not arguing for any one person or what type of deal they should get. Only saying the 49ers may have options in free agency to bring in a solid veteran player at a cheaper price tag than AA.


3. The draft

There could be a possible replacement for AA in the draft. With other needs on the team, specifically at WR, OL, and in the secondary, and without 2nd-3rd-4th round picks, it seems unlikely. Even if the 49ers trade out.

Tag/sign and trade AA. Get what you can in draft capital. Focus on extending our true franchise players. The cap will certainly go up but it is of the upmost importance to remain cap flexible more than ever to continue being competitive. Sacrifices must be made and Armstead is a cap casualty.