Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Kittle shouldn't be too expensive as a tight end. The team just needs Paraag to work a little magic this year then when the cba rises the cap we'll get Buckner/ Kittle extended.

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I've been thinking about AA all day. As much as I would like to keep him, I think the best option for the team is to move on. His market is going to be expensive. Some will argue there are ways to manipulate the cap. I don't doubt that. What I do know is we have 2 large extensions to players better than Armstead. Kittle and Buckner. One thing to keep in mind with AA is he will somewhat set a market for Buckner. Since Buckner is without a doubt a much better player than AA, Buckner will be licking his chops if the 49ers commit a long term deal with AA in the annual range of 16-18 million a year.

The best move for the team imo is to tag and trade Armstead. Do what the Texans did with Clowney and Chiefs did with Ford.

We know the team is short on draft picks this year. Many have suggested a trade out of the 1st to recoup extra picks. The problem with this strategy is we do not know who will be available when the 49ers draft. This class is deep at WR and OL. And there are some good QBs in this class making it all the more likely a player whom the 9ers covet will be there at 31. I think it would be foolish for them to dismiss the pick entirely in hope for a trade down.

So how can the 49ers come away with more picks and still have a formidable defensive line next year? I think the answer is to trade Armstead. The next question would be what is Armsteads worth? Given his production, his age, and his ability to play anywhere on the line. This is how I see it.

10-15% the 49ers can get a late 1st
55-65% the 49ers can get an early 2nd
70-90% the 49ers can get a late 2nd
100% the 49ers can get a 3rd and a 4th

Any of these options are better to me than letting AA walk completely and getting a 3rd round comp next year, or, tagging him this year and letting him walk in 2021 and receiving a 3rd rounder in 2022. Or signing him to a massive extension at 16-18 million annually for 5-6 years.

Assuming we can tag and trade AA, which in my opinion seems highly likely given his value and the need at the position. What are the 49ers options to replace him?1. Solomon Thomas. Trust me, I'm not excited about this anymore than you are. However there are some things to note. Pff has generally liked Thomas as a run defender whether inside or out. We know he plays better as a pass rusher on the inside. His cap hit is 8.9 million and it's been rumored the 49ers might have to attach a pick to trade him to save roughly 4 million on the cap while still being responsible for the other 4 million. That doesn't seem wise to me. The question for the coaches is pretty simple.

On running downs is a line of

Bucker/Thomas/DJ Jones/Bosa or
Thomas/Buckner/Jones/Bosa

And on passing downs

Ford/Buckner/Thomas/Bosa

A significant detriment to the defensive line as a whole unit? With these units Thomas will have much of the 1 on 1 opportunities Armstead had inside this year. While I'm certainly not convinced Thomas is nearly as good as AA, Thomas will have plenty of opportunities in both the run game and passing game to beat interior 1 on 1 matchups.

One important note in all of this is Armstead was virtually a non factor in his first 4 years in the league. Flip through this thread and you can see the majority of the posts are scrutinizing his play. It wasn't until Ford and Bosa came along that AA was able to flourish. Could Thomas be on a similar path to success? I think he has a great opportunity to do so. And his cap hit of 8.9 million will be the difference in being able to resign Ward or Sanders, possibly both, instead of paying Armstead.

2. Free agency

I started browsing through potential 4-3 DT's on Walter football and a couple players stood out to me as guys the 49ers could bring in on short term deals that could flourish with Buckner, Jones, Ford, and Bosa. Given age, injury history, and previous salaries these players aren't neccesarily getting long term deals except maybe Jefferson, he is only 26.

1. Michael Brockers
2. Quinten Jefferson
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Timmy Jernigan
5. Shelby Harris

I'm not arguing for any one person or what type of deal they should get. Only saying the 49ers may have options in free agency to bring in a solid veteran player at a cheaper price tag than AA.

3. The draft

There could be a possible replacement for AA in the draft. With other needs on the team, specifically at WR, OL, and in the secondary, and without 2nd-3rd-4th round picks, it seems unlikely. Even if the 49ers trade out.

Tag/sign and trade AA. Get what you can in draft capital. Focus on extending our true franchise players. The cap will certainly go up but it is of the upmost importance to remain cap flexible more than ever to continue being competitive. Sacrifices must be made and Armstead is a cap casualty.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SisterFister:

I've been thinking about AA all day. As much as I would like to keep him, I think the best option for the team is to move on. His market is going to be expensive. Some will argue there are ways to manipulate the cap. I don't doubt that. What I do know is we have 2 large extensions to players better than Armstead. Kittle and Buckner. One thing to keep in mind with AA is he will somewhat set a market for Buckner. Since Buckner is without a doubt a much better player than AA, Buckner will be licking his chops if the 49ers commit a long term deal with AA in the annual range of 16-18 million a year.

The best move for the team imo is to tag and trade Armstead. Do what the Texans did with Clowney and Chiefs did with Ford.

We know the team is short on draft picks this year. Many have suggested a trade out of the 1st to recoup extra picks. The problem with this strategy is we do not know who will be available when the 49ers draft. This class is deep at WR and OL. And there are some good QBs in this class making it all the more likely a player whom the 9ers covet will be there at 31. I think it would be foolish for them to dismiss the pick entirely in hope for a trade down.

So how can the 49ers come away with more picks and still have a formidable defensive line next year? I think the answer is to trade Armstead. The next question would be what is Armsteads worth? Given his production, his age, and his ability to play anywhere on the line. This is how I see it.

10-15% the 49ers can get a late 1st
55-65% the 49ers can get an early 2nd
70-90% the 49ers can get a late 2nd
100% the 49ers can get a 3rd and a 4th

Any of these options are better to me than letting AA walk completely and getting a 3rd round comp next year, or, tagging him this year and letting him walk in 2021 and receiving a 3rd rounder in 2022. Or signing him to a massive extension at 16-18 million annually for 5-6 years.

Assuming we can tag and trade AA, which in my opinion seems highly likely given his value and the need at the position. What are the 49ers options to replace him?1. Solomon Thomas. Trust me, I'm not excited about this anymore than you are. However there are some things to note. Pff has generally liked Thomas as a run defender whether inside or out. We know he plays better as a pass rusher on the inside. His cap hit is 8.9 million and it's been rumored the 49ers might have to attach a pick to trade him to save roughly 4 million on the cap while still being responsible for the other 4 million. That doesn't seem wise to me. The question for the coaches is pretty simple.

On running downs is a line of

Bucker/Thomas/DJ Jones/Bosa or
Thomas/Buckner/Jones/Bosa

And on passing downs

Ford/Buckner/Thomas/Bosa

A significant detriment to the defensive line as a whole unit? With these units Thomas will have much of the 1 on 1 opportunities Armstead had inside this year. While I'm certainly not convinced Thomas is nearly as good as AA, Thomas will have plenty of opportunities in both the run game and passing game to beat interior 1 on 1 matchups.

One important note in all of this is Armstead was virtually a non factor in his first 4 years in the league. Flip through this thread and you can see the majority of the posts are scrutinizing his play. It wasn't until Ford and Bosa came along that AA was able to flourish. Could Thomas be on a similar path to success? I think he has a great opportunity to do so. And his cap hit of 8.9 million will be the difference in being able to resign Ward or Sanders, possibly both, instead of paying Armstead.

2. Free agency

I started browsing through potential 4-3 DT's on Walter football and a couple players stood out to me as guys the 49ers could bring in on short term deals that could flourish with Buckner, Jones, Ford, and Bosa. Given age, injury history, and previous salaries these players aren't neccesarily getting long term deals except maybe Jefferson, he is only 26.

1. Michael Brockers
2. Quinten Jefferson
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Timmy Jernigan
5. Shelby Harris

I'm not arguing for any one person or what type of deal they should get. Only saying the 49ers may have options in free agency to bring in a solid veteran player at a cheaper price tag than AA.

3. The draft

There could be a possible replacement for AA in the draft. With other needs on the team, specifically at WR, OL, and in the secondary, and without 2nd-3rd-4th round picks, it seems unlikely. Even if the 49ers trade out.

Tag/sign and trade AA. Get what you can in draft capital. Focus on extending our true franchise players. The cap will certainly go up but it is of the upmost importance to remain cap flexible more than ever to continue being competitive. Sacrifices must be made and Armstead is a cap casualty.

Or they just keep Armstead and keep together the best part of this 49ers team that had an incredibly successful season. The team finally had a great season and it seems odd to me that people are trying to come up with ways to take the team apart.

Originally posted by okdkid:

The salary cap is going to be $30M-40M *higher* in the next two years.

Why would anybody care that we sign 2-3 huge deals this offseason? In fact, I wish we could sign more, before the new salary cap is reflected in these deals.

Armstead
Buckner
Kittle
Ward
Sanders
Warner (I wish he was eligible)
DJ Jones
Tartt
Tomlinson

All deserving of new deals, if not this offseason, then next. ALL can easily be done with the cap set to explode the way it will with the new CBA.

Originally posted by SisterFister:

I've been thinking about AA all day. As much as I would like to keep him, I think the best option for the team is to move on. His market is going to be expensive. Some will argue there are ways to manipulate the cap. I don't doubt that. What I do know is we have 2 large extensions to players better than Armstead. Kittle and Buckner. One thing to keep in mind with AA is he will somewhat set a market for Buckner. Since Buckner is without a doubt a much better player than AA, Buckner will be licking his chops if the 49ers commit a long term deal with AA in the annual range of 16-18 million a year.

The best move for the team imo is to tag and trade Armstead. Do what the Texans did with Clowney and Chiefs did with Ford.

We know the team is short on draft picks this year. Many have suggested a trade out of the 1st to recoup extra picks. The problem with this strategy is we do not know who will be available when the 49ers draft. This class is deep at WR and OL. And there are some good QBs in this class making it all the more likely a player whom the 9ers covet will be there at 31. I think it would be foolish for them to dismiss the pick entirely in hope for a trade down.

So how can the 49ers come away with more picks and still have a formidable defensive line next year? I think the answer is to trade Armstead. The next question would be what is Armsteads worth? Given his production, his age, and his ability to play anywhere on the line. This is how I see it.

10-15% the 49ers can get a late 1st
55-65% the 49ers can get an early 2nd
70-90% the 49ers can get a late 2nd
100% the 49ers can get a 3rd and a 4th

Any of these options are better to me than letting AA walk completely and getting a 3rd round comp next year, or, tagging him this year and letting him walk in 2021 and receiving a 3rd rounder in 2022. Or signing him to a massive extension at 16-18 million annually for 5-6 years.

Assuming we can tag and trade AA, which in my opinion seems highly likely given his value and the need at the position. What are the 49ers options to replace him?

1. Solomon Thomas. Trust me, I'm not excited about this anymore than you are. However there are some things to note. Pff has generally liked Thomas as a run defender whether inside or out. We know he plays better as a pass rusher on the inside. His cap hit is 8.9 million and it's been rumored the 49ers might have to attach a pick to trade him to save roughly 4 million on the cap while still being responsible for the other 4 million. That doesn't seem wise to me. The question for the coaches is pretty simple.

On running downs is a line of

Bucker/Thomas/DJ Jones/Bosa or
Thomas/Buckner/Jones/Bosa

And on passing downs

Ford/Buckner/Thomas/Bosa

A significant detriment to the defensive line as a whole unit? With these units Thomas will have much of the 1 on 1 opportunities Armstead had inside this year. While I'm certainly not convinced Thomas is nearly as good as AA, Thomas will have plenty of opportunities in both the run game and passing game to beat interior 1 on 1 matchups.

One important note in all of this is Armstead was virtually a non factor in his first 4 years in the league. Flip through this thread and you can see the majority of the posts are scrutinizing his play. It wasn't until Ford and Bosa came along that AA was able to flourish. Could Thomas be on a similar path to success? I think he has a great opportunity to do so. And his cap hit of 8.9 million will be the difference in being able to resign Ward or Sanders, possibly both, instead of paying Armstead.

2. Free agency

I started browsing through potential 4-3 DT's on Walter football and a couple players stood out to me as guys the 49ers could bring in on short term deals that could flourish with Buckner, Jones, Ford, and Bosa. Given age, injury history, and previous salaries these players aren't neccesarily getting long term deals except maybe Jefferson, he is only 26.

1. Michael Brockers
2. Quinten Jefferson
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Timmy Jernigan
5. Shelby Harris

I'm not arguing for any one person or what type of deal they should get. Only saying the 49ers may have options in free agency to bring in a solid veteran player at a cheaper price tag than AA.


3. The draft

There could be a possible replacement for AA in the draft. With other needs on the team, specifically at WR, OL, and in the secondary, and without 2nd-3rd-4th round picks, it seems unlikely. Even if the 49ers trade out.

Tag/sign and trade AA. Get what you can in draft capital. Focus on extending our true franchise players. The cap will certainly go up but it is of the upmost importance to remain cap flexible more than ever to continue being competitive. Sacrifices must be made and Armstead is a cap casualty.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Is armstead the odd man out or Ford? Hes more expensive than Armstead and he didnt really help us after november. He had 8 weeks of rest and didnt really influence the super bowl. Thats sobering. We cant invest 17m for 230 snaps. Just cant do it. There has to be a game plan to keep him high functioning next year. Or he needs to restructure big time. And theres our cap room to sign armstead.

Originally posted by SisterFister:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Is armstead the odd man out or Ford? Hes more expensive than Armstead and he didnt really help us after november. He had 8 weeks of rest and didnt really influence the super bowl. Thats sobering. We cant invest 17m for 230 snaps. Just cant do it. There has to be a game plan to keep him high functioning next year. Or he needs to restructure big time. And theres our cap room to sign armstead.

Ford isn't getting cut this year. His cap hit is 15.9 million and the Niners would have to eat 6.8 million in dead cap if they do. Cutting Ford is more practical next season with a 17.6 million cap hit and the 49ers eat only 4.8 million but gain 12.8 million in cap space.

Originally posted by SisterFister:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Is armstead the odd man out or Ford? Hes more expensive than Armstead and he didnt really help us after november. He had 8 weeks of rest and didnt really influence the super bowl. Thats sobering. We cant invest 17m for 230 snaps. Just cant do it. There has to be a game plan to keep him high functioning next year. Or he needs to restructure big time. And theres our cap room to sign armstead.

Ford isn't getting cut this year. His cap hit is 15.9 million and the Niners would have to eat 6.8 million in dead cap if they do. Cutting Ford is more practical next season with a 17.6 million cap hit and the 49ers eat only 4.8 million but gain 12.8 million in cap space.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Arik ARMAloseoutsidecontain

Originally posted by SisterFister:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Is armstead the odd man out or Ford? Hes more expensive than Armstead and he didnt really help us after november. He had 8 weeks of rest and didnt really influence the super bowl. Thats sobering. We cant invest 17m for 230 snaps. Just cant do it. There has to be a game plan to keep him high functioning next year. Or he needs to restructure big time. And theres our cap room to sign armstead.

Ford isn't getting cut this year. His cap hit is 15.9 million and the Niners would have to eat 6.8 million in dead cap if they do. Cutting Ford is more practical next season with a 17.6 million cap hit and the 49ers eat only 4.8 million but gain 12.8 million in cap space.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I've been thinking about AA all day. As much as I would like to keep him, I think the best option for the team is to move on. His market is going to be expensive. Some will argue there are ways to manipulate the cap. I don't doubt that. What I do know is we have 2 large extensions to players better than Armstead. Kittle and Buckner. One thing to keep in mind with AA is he will somewhat set a market for Buckner. Since Buckner is without a doubt a much better player than AA, Buckner will be licking his chops if the 49ers commit a long term deal with AA in the annual range of 16-18 million a year.

The best move for the team imo is to tag and trade Armstead. Do what the Texans did with Clowney and Chiefs did with Ford.

We know the team is short on draft picks this year. Many have suggested a trade out of the 1st to recoup extra picks. The problem with this strategy is we do not know who will be available when the 49ers draft. This class is deep at WR and OL. And there are some good QBs in this class making it all the more likely a player whom the 9ers covet will be there at 31. I think it would be foolish for them to dismiss the pick entirely in hope for a trade down.

So how can the 49ers come away with more picks and still have a formidable defensive line next year? I think the answer is to trade Armstead. The next question would be what is Armsteads worth? Given his production, his age, and his ability to play anywhere on the line. This is how I see it.

10-15% the 49ers can get a late 1st
55-65% the 49ers can get an early 2nd
70-90% the 49ers can get a late 2nd
100% the 49ers can get a 3rd and a 4th

Any of these options are better to me than letting AA walk completely and getting a 3rd round comp next year, or, tagging him this year and letting him walk in 2021 and receiving a 3rd rounder in 2022. Or signing him to a massive extension at 16-18 million annually for 5-6 years.

Assuming we can tag and trade AA, which in my opinion seems highly likely given his value and the need at the position. What are the 49ers options to replace him?1. Solomon Thomas. Trust me, I'm not excited about this anymore than you are. However there are some things to note. Pff has generally liked Thomas as a run defender whether inside or out. We know he plays better as a pass rusher on the inside. His cap hit is 8.9 million and it's been rumored the 49ers might have to attach a pick to trade him to save roughly 4 million on the cap while still being responsible for the other 4 million. That doesn't seem wise to me. The question for the coaches is pretty simple.

On running downs is a line of

Bucker/Thomas/DJ Jones/Bosa or
Thomas/Buckner/Jones/Bosa

And on passing downs

Ford/Buckner/Thomas/Bosa

A significant detriment to the defensive line as a whole unit? With these units Thomas will have much of the 1 on 1 opportunities Armstead had inside this year. While I'm certainly not convinced Thomas is nearly as good as AA, Thomas will have plenty of opportunities in both the run game and passing game to beat interior 1 on 1 matchups.

One important note in all of this is Armstead was virtually a non factor in his first 4 years in the league. Flip through this thread and you can see the majority of the posts are scrutinizing his play. It wasn't until Ford and Bosa came along that AA was able to flourish. Could Thomas be on a similar path to success? I think he has a great opportunity to do so. And his cap hit of 8.9 million will be the difference in being able to resign Ward or Sanders, possibly both, instead of paying Armstead.

2. Free agency

I started browsing through potential 4-3 DT's on Walter football and a couple players stood out to me as guys the 49ers could bring in on short term deals that could flourish with Buckner, Jones, Ford, and Bosa. Given age, injury history, and previous salaries these players aren't neccesarily getting long term deals except maybe Jefferson, he is only 26.

1. Michael Brockers
2. Quinten Jefferson
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Timmy Jernigan
5. Shelby Harris

I'm not arguing for any one person or what type of deal they should get. Only saying the 49ers may have options in free agency to bring in a solid veteran player at a cheaper price tag than AA.

3. The draft

There could be a possible replacement for AA in the draft. With other needs on the team, specifically at WR, OL, and in the secondary, and without 2nd-3rd-4th round picks, it seems unlikely. Even if the 49ers trade out.

Tag/sign and trade AA. Get what you can in draft capital. Focus on extending our true franchise players. The cap will certainly go up but it is of the upmost importance to remain cap flexible more than ever to continue being competitive. Sacrifices must be made and Armstead is a cap casualty.

Or they just keep Armstead and keep together the best part of this 49ers team that had an incredibly successful season. The team finally had a great season and it seems odd to me that people are trying to come up with ways to take the team apart.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by okdkid:

The salary cap is going to be $30M-40M *higher* in the next two years.

Why would anybody care that we sign 2-3 huge deals this offseason? In fact, I wish we could sign more, before the new salary cap is reflected in these deals.

Armstead
Buckner
Kittle
Ward
Sanders
Warner (I wish he was eligible)
DJ Jones
Tartt
Tomlinson

All deserving of new deals, if not this offseason, then next. ALL can easily be done with the cap set to explode the way it will with the new CBA.

You damn well know paraag has this all figured out

Toss in contracts like Ford, who can easily be moved off of after this yr. just structure AA's contact to reflect SF cutting Ford in 2021...if Ford somehow gets healthy and balls out, just restructure his deal next yr.