Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mean, we're a championship deep roster, a top team with the most double digit player contracts and we could conceivably not lose anyone. And that's in a cap era where every team loses at least one important player every year. When the Cowboys, a team in the red, sign Dak, it's solidified.

But to your other point, FO's are certainly waiting to see what happens with the CBA. A slew of signings will go down 1 second after it goes through. If not, not sure.

The Cowboys have $77M in cap space, they're not in the red.

Yes you can conceivably not lose everyone, BUT that would require pushing money down the road (a lot) and it might not be something SF wants to do for every single big contract. Pushing money down the road essentially keeps guys like Kwon and Richburg's contracts on the books longer. It's fine to do that with certain guys, maybe not so smart for guys that seem to be injured a lot Paying big cap hits for guys that aren't on the field is not what you want.

You also want to be able to move off those deals easily when you get a cheaper player that's playing just as well (example Greenlaw for Kwon). IMO the Greenlaw/Kwon situation is a perfect example of why pushing cash down the road is bad. We have Greenlaw dirt cheap (for 3 more yrs) and yet we're stuck paying Kwon top money in 2021/2022. We're not really taking advantage of his cheap ass contract because we're blowing it all on Kwon (instead of another position where we don't have a cheap good player).

Smart FO's don't open up the bank truck and let everyone grab as much as they can. YOU WILL have to pay up at some point and it will f**k up your team. The Giants/Browns/and Jags are good examples of this.

So yeah the cap can be manipulated BUT you gotta be smart about it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mean, we're a championship deep roster, a top team with the most double digit player contracts and we could conceivably not lose anyone. And that's in a cap era where every team loses at least one important player every year. When the Cowboys, a team in the red, sign Dak, it's solidified.

But to your other point, FO's are certainly waiting to see what happens with the CBA. A slew of signings will go down 1 second after it goes through. If not, not sure.

The Cowboys have $77M in cap space, they're not in the red.

Yes you can conceivably not lose everyone, BUT that would require pushing money down the road (a lot) and it might not be something SF wants to do for every single big contract. Pushing money down the road essentially keeps guys like Kwon and Richburg's contracts on the books longer. It's fine to do that with certain guys, maybe not so smart for guys that seem to be injured a lot Paying big cap hits for guys that aren't on the field is not what you want.

You also want to be able to move off those deals easily when you get a cheaper player that's playing just as well (example Greenlaw for Kwon). IMO the Greenlaw/Kwon situation is a perfect example of why pushing cash down the road is bad. We have Greenlaw dirt cheap (for 3 more yrs) and yet we're stuck paying Kwon top money in 2021/2022. We're not really taking advantage of his cheap ass contract because we're blowing it all on Kwon (instead of another position where we don't have a cheap good player).

Smart FO's don't give open up the bank truck and let everyone grab as much as they can. YOU WILL have to pay up at some point and it will f**k up your team. The Giants/Browns/and Jags are good examples of this.

So yeah the cap can be manipulated BUT you gotta be smart about it.

You're kind of going extremes here.

We're certifiable proof a championship roster can keep everyone even in the older salary cap era which will certainly be lower than the new CBA.

But I hear you about having a ton of all pros and pro bowlers. No way you can pay everyone at once or if you do, like right now, you see a number of those players being dumped for the immediate cap space for others. It's a sliding scale.

I do very much agree with you that because of the parameter, you still need to be smart and responsible...bring in high character players, get them tied into the community, build a terrific culture, compete for Championships, etc.

That all goes a long way towards keeping players that might get more money elsewhere.

Those FA crazy teams you mentioned bought players before they had the culture to sustain and maximize that talent.

Originally posted by NCommand:

You're kind of going extremes here.

We're certifiable proof a championship roster can keep everyone even in the older salary cap era which will certainly be lower than the new CBA.

I'm just giving examples of how restructuring contracts to create more space (which is really the only way they can and resign everyone) isn't the best move to do all the time.

Would you rather have Kwon at $16.5m In 2021/2022 or greenlaw at $700k? If they get a g/c who outplays richburg (like you want) what you doing with richburg's $12M in 2021/2022? That's a lot of cash on the bench. Those contracts are on the books now because we restructured them.

All I'm saying is they gotta be smart. Also while the cap might get an extra $40M in 2021...I also expect the avg contract to increase more than it would before the new CBA.

FWIW I want them to keep everyone, but I realize that's probably not the smartest thing LT.

If only we had a thread about Arik Armstead!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

You're kind of going extremes here.

We're certifiable proof a championship roster can keep everyone even in the older salary cap era which will certainly be lower than the new CBA.

I'm just giving examples of how restructuring contracts to create more space (which is really the only way they can and resign everyone) isn't the best move to do all the time.

Would you rather have Kwon at $16.5m In 2021/2022 or greenlaw at $700k? If they get a g/c who outplays richburg (like you want) what you doing with richburg's $12M in 2021/2022? That's a lot of cash on the bench. Those contracts are on the books now because we restructured them.

All I'm saying is they gotta be smart. Also while the cap might get an extra $40M in 2021...I also expect the avg contract to increase more than it would before the new CBA.

FWIW I want them to keep everyone, but I realize that's probably not the smartest thing LT.

Fully agree. Yeah, you only want to restructure a few here and there and only for players you consider core players and expect to be around through the full contract. I'm not big on ever pushing contracts down the road. That said, in this situation, where you know big $ players will be coming off the books and with the possible new CBA (at some point), it might be the best course of action esp. if you only have a few players you need to do that for with AA, Sanders and Ward...to get under this year.

IMHO, Buckner and Kittle can be passed off to next year (and their agents probably want that anyhow). Why? Buckner is already expected to get a top 3-5 contract. He's not going any higher. Kittle is expected to break the TE market and get WR money. His market won't get any higher either.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Fully agree. Yeah, you only want to restructure a few here and there and only for players you consider core players and expect to be around through the full contract. I'm not big on ever pushing contracts down the road. That said, in this situation, where you know big $ players will be coming off the books and with the possible new CBA (at some point), it might be the best course of action esp. if you only have a few players you need to do that for with AA, Sanders and Ward...to get under this year.

IMHO, Buckner and Kittle can be passed off to next year (and their agents probably want that anyhow). Why? Buckner is already expected to get a top 3-5 contract. He's not going any higher. Kittle is expected to break the TE market and get WR money. His market won't get any higher either.

Bucker getting extended is a must this yr. they could save a ton of money on the 2020 cap that could be used to get AA on a LT deal.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Bucker getting extended is a must this yr. they could save a ton of money on the 2020 cap that could be used to get AA on a LT deal.

I want that too. But he's fully guaranteed for the full $14.3M cap hit already on the books. He's expected to make $17M+ on APY on a new contract. I don't know how much lower under the $14.3M this year they could go to help in AA's contract without really taking a big hit next year+.

Originally posted by NCommand:

I want that too. But he's fully guaranteed for the full $14.3M cap hit already on the books. He's expected to make $17M+ on APY on a new contract. I don't know how much lower under the $14.3M this year they could go to help in AA's contract without really taking a big hit next year+.

Signing bonuses brah. Look at Donald's first yr on his new contract. It was like $8.9M. They would without question save money on the 2020 cap. I'm guessing somewhere between $8-$10M

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I want that too. But he's fully guaranteed for the full $14.3M cap hit already on the books. He's expected to make $17M+ on APY on a new contract. I don't know how much lower under the $14.3M this year they could go to help in AA's contract without really taking a big hit next year+.

Signing bonuses brah. Look at Donald's first yr on his new contract. It was like $8.9M. They would without question save money on the 2020 cap. I'm guessing somewhere between $8-$10M

Yeah, if they could lower it to $9M this year, that certainly helps in the current $14.3M on the cap ATM. Every little bit helps today to get under.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, if they could lower it to $9M this year, that certainly helps in the current $14.3M on the cap ATM. Every little bit helps today to get under.

Wouldn't be shocked if they could cut his cap hit in half this yr. throw in moving on from Coleman/Goodwin and restructure McK it will give them some much needed cap relief to make some moves.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, if they could lower it to $9M this year, that certainly helps in the current $14.3M on the cap ATM. Every little bit helps today to get under.

Wouldn't be shocked if they could cut his cap hit in half this yr. throw in moving on from Coleman/Goodwin and restructure McK it will give them some much needed cap relief to make some moves.

Definitely. McKinnon and Coleman were certainly targets of mine as well.

At this stage, I think it goes one of these two directions and includes extensions for both Buckner and Kittle.

Originally posted by English:

If only we had a thread about Arik Armstead!

Oh yeah and Arik Armstead is a badass!

Originally posted by hummbabybear:

A week ago the rumors were that a long-term deal was in the works. Silence since. Less than 24 hours for the franchise deadline. My guess at this point is that Lynch won't use the tag. We get an early supplemental pick next year.

FYI deadline moved to Monday so more time to work out a deal.

Originally posted by hummbabybear:

Originally posted by hummbabybear:
A week ago the rumors were that a long-term deal was in the works. Silence since. Less than 24 hours for the franchise deadline. My guess at this point is that Lynch won't use the tag. We get an early supplemental pick next year.

FYI deadline moved to Monday so more time to work out a deal.

Everyone is waiting on the CBA. I expect a lot to happen once there's answers there.