Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

I know, but imo Buckner is the obviously better player and was never hurt. Armstead is nowhere near that imo.

Dude if you knew you wouldn't have said if AA is worth $17M per yr because he's not getting that the first two yrs.

Buck is better no doubt...he's making like twice as much money as well lol.

When do we get to throw out the injury prone comment? He's been healthy for two yrs now.

They tried to resign Buck for over a yr now, he clearly wasn't gonna take any sort of discount to stay in SF. The writing was on the wall. AA at half the price and 13th overall pick isn't a horrible 2nd choice.

A healthy DJ Jones is a positive as well.

Nobody in their mind thought we would keep Armstead over Buck.

This was a cap move. If he wasn't the best player on our team he was the second (bosa/Kittle).

I get the contract structure, but what happened to the crowd saying we can keep everyone? Now we're all being told this was inevitable

But wait, how was this a cap move? We were told that the cap is just make-believe* and that we can keep every player we want, and that we have enough money for Buckner, Armstead, and Kittle.

* unless it's a rival team making cap moves, like the Seahawks or the Rams. Then the salary cap is a very-real thing, and the decisions they make will damn them for years to come.

I know. I'm being a cynic towards everyone telling us we can keep the entire d line and core offense together for 4-5 more years etc. now they make an obvious cap choose and we're being told this is what they expected...

As much as I love Buckner, he ´s no Aaron Donald/ Von Miller/ Khalil Mack tier either.
Nick Bosa could be and he ´s the guy they should bank on.
And I think that Bosa, Kittle and of course Garoppolo are all more important to the success of this team.
You could also make the argument for Staley because someone has to protect Garoppolo at some point right?
It sucks for Buck and for me as a fan but I don´t think they made this move because they were cheap.
They made the best of this situation.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

I know, but imo Buckner is the obviously better player and was never hurt. Armstead is nowhere near that imo.

Dude if you knew you wouldn't have said if AA is worth $17M per yr because he's not getting that the first two yrs.

Buck is better no doubt...he's making like twice as much money as well lol.

When do we get to throw out the injury prone comment? He's been healthy for two yrs now.

They tried to resign Buck for over a yr now, he clearly wasn't gonna take any sort of discount to stay in SF. The writing was on the wall. AA at half the price and 13th overall pick isn't a horrible 2nd choice.

A healthy DJ Jones is a positive as well.

Nobody in their mind thought we would keep Armstead over Buck.

This was a cap move. If he wasn't the best player on our team he was the second (bosa/Kittle).

I get the contract structure, but what happened to the crowd saying we can keep everyone? Now we're all being told this was inevitable

But wait, how was this a cap move? We were told that the cap is just make-believe* and that we can keep every player we want, and that we have enough money for Buckner, Armstead, and Kittle.

* unless it's a rival team making cap moves, like the Seahawks or the Rams. Then the salary cap is a very-real thing, and the decisions they make will damn them for years to come.

I know. I'm being a cynic towards everyone telling us we can keep the entire d line and core offense together for 4-5 more years etc. now they make an obvious cap choose and we're being told this is what they expected...

IMO it would be obvious if DeFo was simply dumped like the Calais Campbell trade. He wasn't dumped though, they got a top 15 pick for him. That's why the salary cap issue is only half of it, sure that helps down the line but getting that pick is huge.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Nobody in their mind thought we would keep Armstead over Buck.

This was a cap move. If he wasn't the best player on our team he was the second (bosa/Kittle).

I get the contract structure, but what happened to the crowd saying we can keep everyone? Now we're all being told this was inevitable

True. We definitely could have kept him. But then nearly 30% of the teams total cap spending would be on the DL position alone.

I've been very hard on Paraag and his moneyball approach over the years but this is really the right move. It certainly sucks ass from a fan perspective though.

But Buckner was the one asking for $50M GTD and $21M APY. Insane.

I get it. As a fan this just hurts. He was one of our best players. And imo better than armstead. But I understand they put all options on the table and took the best bet.

The d-line will always be a huge part of our cap. It's how we're built.

I want to say I'm a tad curious to see Thomas at 3 tech, but if anything they will trade him too. In reality we will see a drop off because Buckner was that good.

I hear you. My heart sunk as a fan too.

Maybe this will help perspective for some.

The most a team has allocated towards a DL is $54,650,438.

Had we kept Buckner at this contract, we would have allocated $65,515,165. That's 33% of our total team cap space.

While possible, it's just not a smart way to sustain success esp. in an era where nobody runs anymore, run defense isn't as critical to wins/losses anymore, it's truly an "encouraged" passing league, there are a plethora of quality veteran IDL available every year, you're a contender players want to play for, you've got a great coach for developing DL and as we saw in the Superbowl, OL are now allowed to hold DL without consequences, all through the playoffs.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! And stock up on coverage units instead and offensive weapons and coach up your OL to hold more often.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Nobody in their mind thought we would keep Armstead over Buck.

This was a cap move. If he wasn't the best player on our team he was the second (bosa/Kittle).

I get the contract structure, but what happened to the crowd saying we can keep everyone? Now we're all being told this was inevitable

True. We definitely could have kept him. But then nearly 30% of the teams total cap spending would be on the DL position alone.

I've been very hard on Paraag and his moneyball approach over the years but this is really the right move. It certainly sucks ass from a fan perspective though.

But Buckner was the one asking for $50M GTD and $21M APY. Insane.

I get it. As a fan this just hurts. He was one of our best players. And imo better than armstead. But I understand they put all options on the table and took the best bet.

The d-line will always be a huge part of our cap. It's how we're built.

I want to say I'm a tad curious to see Thomas at 3 tech, but if anything they will trade him too. In reality we will see a drop off because Buckner was that good.

I hear you. My heart sunk as a fan too.

Maybe this will help perspective for some.

The most a team has allocated towards a DL is $54,650,438.

Had we kept Buckner at this contract, we would have allocated $65,515,165. That's 33% of our total team cap space.

While possible, it's just not a smart way to sustain success esp. in an era where nobody runs anymore, run defense isn't as critical to wins/losses anymore, it's truly an "encouraged" passing league, there are a plethora of quality veteran IDL available every year, you're a contender players want to play for, you've got a great coach for developing DL and as we saw in the Superbowl, OL are now allowed to hold DL without consequences, all through the playoffs.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! And stock up on coverage units instead and offensive weapons and coach up your OL to hold more often.

So you're saying football is going down the s**tter?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

So you're saying football is going down the s**tter?

LMAO. It's certainly a wide open offense league. Haha.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Nobody in their mind thought we would keep Armstead over Buck.

This was a cap move. If he wasn't the best player on our team he was the second (bosa/Kittle).

I get the contract structure, but what happened to the crowd saying we can keep everyone? Now we're all being told this was inevitable

True. We definitely could have kept him. But then nearly 30% of the teams total cap spending would be on the DL position alone.

I've been very hard on Paraag and his moneyball approach over the years but this is really the right move. It certainly sucks ass from a fan perspective though.

But Buckner was the one asking for $50M GTD and $21M APY. Insane.

Good call NC!

https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/3/17/21182756/armstead-contract-details-only-a-6-million-cap-hit-in-2020

Here is a breakdown of the cap hit by year:

2020: $6M
2021: $12.5M
2022: $20M
2023: $21.74M
2024: $23.26M
2025: $18.5M (Voids on 5th day of waiver claim which is after the Super Bowl)

Armstead will receive $34.15 million in full guarantees and $45.85 in total guarantees. No matter how you slice it, it's a team-friendly deal. Armstead also has a $7.5 million option bonus that will be prorated from 2021-25. That's why the cap numbers above work out the way that they do. In short, it's a three-year deal. The 49ers can get out after Year 2 if the option bonus is exercised, and that would mean $6.65 of his base salary is guaranteed instead of $14.15 million.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Congrats kid. You earned it.

Hungry for more @arikarmstead 🍴

🎥 https://t.co/vpdsX5qsi5 pic.twitter.com/8cdih3qnls

— San Francisco 49ers (@49ers) March 17, 2020

Now, keep working on shutting down the edge on those mobile QB's.

Earned it? lol. For finally putting in effort in a contract year? fkn millennials

This is what happens to every team when you start winning. The top players will start asking for more money until you reach the point where you can't afford everyone. Tough choices are part of football and the best teams make those choices even when they aren't popular. This is why it's so hard for teams to repeat and talk of dynasties are always premature until they become a reality.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This is what happens to every team when you start winning. The top players will start asking for more money until you reach the point where you can't afford everyone. Tough choices are part of football and the best teams make those choices even when they aren't popular. This is why it's so hard for teams to repeat and talk of dynasties are always premature until they become a reality.

Buckner over Armstead was an easy choice in this case though. It was a terrible idea to give so much money to a bust who lived off of playing with a ton of other 1st round picks.

Now it's up to Armstead to step up and prove that last year wasn't a fluke or a contract year effort. He has to play without Buckner for the first time in 4 years so let's see how he holds up.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Now it's up to Armstead to step up and prove that last year wasn't a fluke or a contract year effort. He has to play without Buckner for the first time in 4 years so let's see how he holds up.

Let's see what happens when AA doesn't have Buck containing 2 OL all the time. Man I hope the pass rush miraculously holds up

Originally posted by Chez:

Earned it? lol. For finally putting in effort in a contract year? fkn millennials

Were you only born in 2019?

Originally posted by 9erReign:
Buckner over Armstead was an easy choice in this case though. It was a terrible idea to give so much money to a bust who lived off of playing with a ton of other 1st round picks.

I really would've like to know what they could've got for Armstead in a tag-and-trade. My guess is that they shopped him but that they didn't have the market they expected (understandable, given that Armstead is somewhat of an unknown).

Could they have kept Buckner and got, say, the 30th pick in the draft for Armstead?
Or were they looking at something more like a 3rd round pick for him?

I'm reasonably-high on Armstead, but this was an interesting move for sure.