Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
Derek Wolfe is a good comparison. Wolfe has a slightly lower run defense rating than AA and quite a bit lower in pass rush...and is getting $9,175,000 this year.

When Wolfe signed his deal back in 2015 he was by far more impactful than AA has ever been. Past two seasons he's been injured quite a bit I believe.

So you're telling me you think AA IS in fact worth around $9 million per yr???

When I compare what other players in his position are earning and how they are playing this year, yes, he is worth $9M.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Derek Wolfe is a good comparison. Wolfe has a slightly lower run defense rating than AA and quite a bit lower in pass rush...and is getting $9,175,000 this year.

When Wolfe signed his deal back in 2015 he was by far more impactful than AA has ever been. Past two seasons he's been injured quite a bit I believe.

So you're telling me you think AA IS in fact worth around $9 million per yr???

I'd give AA 9mm; divided over four mor years of course

Originally posted by okdkid:
"Arik is as good as anyone I've seen right now."

-- Kyle Shanahan. Today.

WOWWWW..

The last HC we had who made a similar STUPID comment like this was Samurai Mike, when he said that "QB is not the most important position in football.. "

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
Derek Wolfe is a good comparison. Wolfe has a slightly lower run defense rating than AA and quite a bit lower in pass rush...and is getting $9,175,000 this year.

When Wolfe signed his deal back in 2015 he was by far more impactful than AA has ever been. Past two seasons he's been injured quite a bit I believe.

So you're telling me you think AA IS in fact worth around $9 million per yr???

I'd give AA 9mm; divided over four mor years of course

When you look at guys like Star Lotulelei ($9.3M) Linval Joseph ($12.5M) and Dontari Poe ($10M) and how they are playing, Armstead is value at $9M.

I'm not saying he is meeting all of my hopes for him. I'm only saying he is being paid fairly in comparison to a whole bunch of other guys.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Not really...you gotta factor in dead money and rookie contracts are pretty secure their first 3 yrs. AA cost SF nothing to move on from.

I'll take Thomas and upside as only a 2 yr player vs AA and what he's done for 4 seasons. We got guys who can run defend. Funny how AA actually starts playing better once he takes on a role similar to what he did in college. I expect the same from Thomas, will fans be able to wait it out for 4 yrs like ya'll are doing currently with AA?

End of the day I expect SF to keep AA on the option...s**t they did it with Ward

Of course you would.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Contractually yes. We are now forced to let Armstead go and replace him with Thomas. I was going to make that point on my last post actually. I don't think they keep Armstead if they do I really don't think they are learning from their mistakes and we could be in a lot of the same going forward. :/

But in terms of upside? I would take the 6'8 guy who has the traits to become a decent player and produced 4.5 sacks in 5 starts versus Thomas with 4 sacks in 23 starts both in their second year.

BTW I never wanted either guy. Armstead year I wanted to pick Peters or trade down a lot for Jordan Phillips who I was high on but no one else was (still think he has a much better career than Armstead).

The same Jordan Phillips who has 79 tackles and 5.5 sacks in 4 years??

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Derek Wolfe is a good comparison. Wolfe has a slightly lower run defense rating than AA and quite a bit lower in pass rush...and is getting $9,175,000 this year.

When Wolfe signed his deal back in 2015 he was by far more impactful than AA has ever been. Past two seasons he's been injured quite a bit I believe.

So you're telling me you think AA IS in fact worth around $9 million per yr???

I'd give AA 9mm; divided over four mor years of course

When you look at guys like Star Lotulelei ($9.3M) Linval Joseph ($12.5M) and Dontari Poe ($10M) and how they are playing, Armstead is value at $9M.

I'm not saying he is meeting all of my hopes for him. I'm only saying he is being paid fairly in comparison to a whole bunch of other guys.

I get your point. I just think stopping the run is probably something most decent lineman can do. Not sure the difference between the top guy and the 20th guy is much at all. Maybe I'm wrong? It's not like he has a ton of TFLs.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Contractually yes. We are now forced to let Armstead go and replace him with Thomas. I was going to make that point on my last post actually. I don't think they keep Armstead if they do I really don't think they are learning from their mistakes and we could be in a lot of the same going forward. :/

But in terms of upside? I would take the 6'8 guy who has the traits to become a decent player and produced 4.5 sacks in 5 starts versus Thomas with 4 sacks in 23 starts both in their second year.

BTW I never wanted either guy. Armstead year I wanted to pick Peters or trade down a lot for Jordan Phillips who I was high on but no one else was (still think he has a much better career than Armstead).

The same Jordan Phillips who has 79 tackles and 5.5 sacks in 4 years??

Really? He is a 343 pound NT. I was not comparing him to Armstead the play different positions. But yes I think a trade down for a 343 pound NT who can get 5.5 sacks at nearly a round later would have been a better decision. At least we would know where to put him.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
Derek Wolfe is a good comparison. Wolfe has a slightly lower run defense rating than AA and quite a bit lower in pass rush...and is getting $9,175,000 this year.

When Wolfe signed his deal back in 2015 he was by far more impactful than AA has ever been. Past two seasons he's been injured quite a bit I believe.

So you're telling me you think AA IS in fact worth around $9 million per yr???

I'd give AA 9mm; divided over four mor years of course

When you look at guys like Star Lotulelei ($9.3M) Linval Joseph ($12.5M) and Dontari Poe ($10M) and how they are playing, Armstead is value at $9M.

I'm not saying he is meeting all of my hopes for him. I'm only saying he is being paid fairly in comparison to a whole bunch of other guys.

I get your point. I just think stopping the run is probably something most decent lineman can do. Not sure the difference between the top guy and the 20th guy is much at all. Maybe I'm wrong? It's not like he has a ton of TFLs.

Of the best run stuffers among interior defenders, only 4 or 5 are in the top 20 pass rushers.

Of the EDs, Armstead is very close to Calais Campbell. Both are stronger in run defense than pass rush. Overall, EDs are more balanced than IDs and better pass rushers than run defense.

The big question is whether Shanahan has seen enough progress in Armstead as a pass rusher to extend him.

I wouldn't say Thomas would replace Armstead if they let him go...he hasn't exactly fared well there. The guy I'd look to replace him is Street...I know he's just starting to practice, but he's got the strength, speed and toughness none of our other inside DL have shown on any sort of consistent basis. Another potential solution is to sign a UFA...I like Malcolm Brown of the Pats, who've already told him they won't exercise his 5th yr option. Saleh needs to shore up the inside so Buckner has some young, yet veteran help.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
U GUYS CAN'T BE SERIOUS!

He's a pretty damn good run defender...you can't deny that. It's what he was good at in college and the reason he should be in a 3-4.

That said he hasn't come close to his draft selection and isn't close to worth $9 million imo

What! When!??? i feel like I'm dreaming right now reading this thread.

U guys are taking PFF's article as gospel. As if they only hire the greatest football minds to review film. The time and manpower it would take to review every player on every snap for every team is insane. i guarantee you the "experts" handing out these grades are some snot nosed interns who probably never watched a down of football before being "hired" by pff.

Whoever oversees the 9er reviews must have a great sense of humor.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by cciowa:

how many players are we still calling for patience on after five years? good god people

True. I hate to say it but I agree. Some layers just aren't good or never healthy which means they are worth a dam to any team.
Ward Mitchell and marsh have to go. Garnett isn't a system fit so him too. AA can stay but only at a deal maybe 6-7 mil a year for a few years. Not 9 mil option. He isn't worth that although he's improving. We have players like day and even street that may be just as good or better.

I want to see Street play before I commit. He is an interesting selection. With at least one quality edge next spring (oh please!) things could get very interesting.

Me too. It kind of sucks though because we only See him in the preseason and by that time the option will still be in effect for armstead or hopefully he is not resigned by then or extended. All we needed was to see what street has. I want him to be the big end and maybe inside here and there in nickel. The guy is so strong and super fast.

Big ends that don't pass rush are literally, the easiest position to find. Hell, we've had a dozen of them and could even call up old Tank Carradine if we needed a near elite 6T. LOL

We need a BE like Bosa who CAN ER.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by okdkid:

"Arik is as good as anyone I've seen right now."

-- Kyle Shanahan. Today.

WOWWWW..

The last HC we had who made a similar STUPID comment like this was Samurai Mike, when he said that "QB is not the most important position in football.. "

Kyle really believes his own words.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Contractually yes. We are now forced to let Armstead go and replace him with Thomas. I was going to make that point on my last post actually. I don't think they keep Armstead if they do I really don't think they are learning from their mistakes and we could be in a lot of the same going forward. :/

But in terms of upside? I would take the 6'8 guy who has the traits to become a decent player and produced 4.5 sacks in 5 starts versus Thomas with 4 sacks in 23 starts both in their second year.

BTW I never wanted either guy. Armstead year I wanted to pick Peters or trade down a lot for Jordan Phillips who I was high on but no one else was (still think he has a much better career than Armstead).

AA got to play the same position he played in college if you're talking about 2nd yr production...not apples to apples imo. If you told me they're drafting Thomas to play predominately on the outside (rushing off the edge) I would have said nope that's not a great pick.

I don't think being 6-8 at DT is a benefit and if we're looking at what translates better for a one gapping DL I think Thomas traits and film from college was better.