Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Most people would sorry dude. One has had 4 yrs another has had 2 yrs and much better college production.

Like I said, I bet I could back track through this thread if I cared enough and find you and many many others proclaiming AA a bust in his 2nd yr as a pro.

Unlike you I don't give up on a player during the second yr.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
I was only comparing relative value of DTs, which is where he plays as well as DE. If you look at DEs, you get a similar comparison.

The point being, $9M is not a lot of money for a DE/DT in today's world.

Those guys are straight up NTs thought AA isn't doing that and I don't think he's better than any of those names you mentioned.

If we want to compare him to someone look at Sheldon Richardson, they play a similar position and he's making $8 million this yr. I wouldn't say AA is better than him.

$9 million for a guy that shouldn't be a 3 down player in this scheme isn't money spent properly imo. He shouldn't be the 4th highest paid player on the time. That said I'm assume SF will keep him because they did the same s**t with Ward and have to spend money

Imo if that's not much money for a DL and he's as good as people are saying in here, then they should have no problem getting a good trade piece for him, right?

AA grades a bit better in pass rush and a lot better in run defense = $9M is in line with him.

If Lynch can get a 3rd and a 6th for him, I would go for that. I just don't see a big rush to trade him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Contractually yes. We are now forced to let Armstead go and replace him with Thomas. I was going to make that point on my last post actually. I don't think they keep Armstead if they do I really don't think they are learning from their mistakes and we could be in a lot of the same going forward. :/

But in terms of upside? I would take the 6'8 guy who has the traits to become a decent player and produced 4.5 sacks in 5 starts versus Thomas with 4 sacks in 23 starts both in their second year.

BTW I never wanted either guy. Armstead year I wanted to pick Peters or trade down a lot for Jordan Phillips who I was high on but no one else was (still think he has a much better career than Armstead).

AA got to play the same position he played in college if you're talking about 2nd yr production...not apples to apples imo. If you told me they're drafting Thomas to play predominately on the outside (rushing off the edge) I would have said nope that's not a great pick.

I don't think being 6-8 at DT is a benefit and if we're looking at what translates better for a one gapping DL I think Thomas traits and film from college was better.

Originally posted by jcs:

??

$9 million is not in line for a guy with 3 sacks and a career avg of 2.5 per season. He's also not a NT and trying to justify his pay compared to those guys doesn't work either. He's just another big end and there are a ton of those guys in this league.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Except we have seen Armstead play on the edge a lot as well. And I said he has the traits like he has longer arms and uses them better than Thomas. He is able to generate power which we really haven't seen much from Thomas.

When did we see him on the edge his first two yrs in the league? You brought up stats to compare on thier 1st two yrs. one got put in the position he played all though college to start out his NFL career, the other did not.

He actually doesn't have longer arms then Thomas they have the same arm length (33 inches). I saw plenty of power from Thomas this past week when inside (7 qb pressures to show for it) totally different ball game on the outside you know that

I'll add Thomas had a better board, vert, and put more up on the bench then AA.

I will say I don't hate AA, I want any 49er to ball out and I'm glad he's finally doing something. He's had 4 yrs to grow and he's showing what he did in college which was stopping the run. He's never been a good pass rusher is what it is. Love to see Thomas get a 4 full yrs from fans but I guess that's not doable in here

Dammit NY I think you got me on this one lol. I still think Armstead has shown more but you make valid points.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Not sure why you are throwing your money away on something you clearly dont like.

FWIW his pass rush grade is down because he is 27th in QB pressures among edge defenders (after being 5th last season).

But also

Per@PFF "Since week 5, DE Chandler Jones has an 80.3 overall grade, the highest of any Cardinals defender. He has 10 sacks in that span."

— Mike Jurecki (@mikejurecki) December 11, 2018

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Go ahead. Look as much as you want but I guarantee that you wont find me busting on AA. I have been defending him since day 1 against the mob in here because unlike Solomon, AA has a legit excuse for his lack of production. Injuries. But now that he has stayed healthy we can see what he can do.

As for giving up on Solomon. I agree. I have seen enough. I see nothing to say he will be even a legit starter never mind a difference player.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Too bad Thomas is not still playing in the amateurs...

Originally posted by tjd808185:

He's good vs the run, provides valuable insurance/ competition/ rotation to Buckner, Thomas. I see no problem with keeping him around. His cap # is a reason we could justify letting him go but if you think we're going to spend it elsewhere I got some fine real estate in Mexico to sell you.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Most people would sorry dude. One has had 4 yrs another has had 2 yrs and much better college production.

Like I said, I bet I could back track through this thread if I cared enough and find you and many many others proclaiming AA a bust in his 2nd yr as a pro.

Unlike you I don't give up on a player during the second yr.

Go ahead. Look as much as you want but I guarantee that you wont find me busting on AA. I have been defending him since day 1 against the mob in here because unlike Solomon, AA has a legit excuse for his lack of production. Injuries. But now that he has stayed healthy we can see what he can do.

As for giving up on Solomon. I agree. I have seen enough. I see nothing to say he will be even a legit starter never mind a difference player.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Mitchell and AA together inside will get destroyed in the run game. Mitchell isn't a NT. Never has been. He is a penetrating DT. AA will have no chance inside on running downs. He could be a nice Nickle rusher though.


Just because Armstead was a high draft pick does not mean we will play him where he doesn't fit. He is not a DE in a 4-3. He lacks the explosiveness to bend the edge. He is not a DT because he doesn't play with leverage and will get owned in the run game. I think he will get moved.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Most people would sorry dude. One has had 4 yrs another has had 2 yrs and much better college production.

Like I said, I bet I could back track through this thread if I cared enough and find you and many many others proclaiming AA a bust in his 2nd yr as a pro.

Unlike you I don't give up on a player during the second yr.

Go ahead. Look as much as you want but I guarantee that you wont find me busting on AA. I have been defending him since day 1 against the mob in here because unlike Solomon, AA has a legit excuse for his lack of production. Injuries. But now that he has stayed healthy we can see what he can do.

As for giving up on Solomon. I agree. I have seen enough. I see nothing to say he will be even a legit starter never mind a difference player.

Busting or not you were certainly ready to boot him from this team at one point when you made your mock draft saying Solomon Thomas is a stud who can play anywhere...

But I'm sure it was for his own good that you were ready to cut him but then suddenly he showed you some new and exciting things in the offseason to say he should be in our long term plans while Thomas sucks and can't be even a legit starter.

Btw...

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Mitchell and AA together inside will get destroyed in the run game. Mitchell isn't a NT. Never has been. He is a penetrating DT. AA will have no chance inside on running downs. He could be a nice Nickle rusher though.


Just because Armstead was a high draft pick does not mean we will play him where he doesn't fit. He is not a DE in a 4-3. He lacks the explosiveness to bend the edge. He is not a DT because he doesn't play with leverage and will get owned in the run game. I think he will get moved.

Maybe not busting but certainly not team AA all the way...

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Most people would sorry dude. One has had 4 yrs another has had 2 yrs and much better college production.

Like I said, I bet I could back track through this thread if I cared enough and find you and many many others proclaiming AA a bust in his 2nd yr as a pro.

Unlike you I don't give up on a player during the second yr.

Go ahead. Look as much as you want but I guarantee that you wont find me busting on AA. I have been defending him since day 1 against the mob in here because unlike Solomon, AA has a legit excuse for his lack of production. Injuries. But now that he has stayed healthy we can see what he can do.

As for giving up on Solomon. I agree. I have seen enough. I see nothing to say he will be even a legit starter never mind a difference player.

Busting or not you were certainly ready to boot him from this team at one point when you made your mock draft saying Solomon Thomas is a stud who can play anywhere...

But I'm sure it was for his own good that you were ready to cut him but then suddenly he showed you some new and exciting things in the offseason to say he should be in our long term plans while Thomas sucks and can't be even a legit starter.

Btw...

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Mitchell and AA together inside will get destroyed in the run game. Mitchell isn't a NT. Never has been. He is a penetrating DT. AA will have no chance inside on running downs. He could be a nice Nickle rusher though.


Just because Armstead was a high draft pick does not mean we will play him where he doesn't fit. He is not a DE in a 4-3. He lacks the explosiveness to bend the edge. He is not a DT because he doesn't play with leverage and will get owned in the run game. I think he will get moved.

Maybe not busting but certainly not team AA all the way...