Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:

Just because we have cap space, wasting 9 million on AA is not "smart" to do. That 9 million could basically get us Earl Thomas. Who do we need more on this team? AA or Earl Thomas? It's like the old saying, "A penny saved is a penny earned". Just because we have cap space, it doesn't mean it is good business to spend it just to spend. This off season we should sign Earl Thomas, Brandon Graham, Tyrell Williams, and a LB. Those FA's would fill huge holes, while also allowing us to hopefully go BPA in the draft. Fingers crossed Bosa falls to us at 2, because having Bosa+Graham on the ends would help our pass rush tremendously.

Having all those guys would be wonderful and we could afford them all and they would certainly make the team better...IF they all want to come here.

What happens with Armstead has nothing to do with signing any of the above. The "smart" thing to do is keep him on the team until someone takes his roster spot away from him.

I think we're stuck with him for 2019. I bet he pulls a Kap and gets surgery just in time to force the recovery period past the league new year locking in his $9 million.

Or he takes a big step forward with the new D-line coach. Here is hoping.

I find the concept that AA should be grateful for a 1 year 9 million deal as kinda funny. People act like the niners are doing him some huge favor. If I'm AA's agent, I WANT the niners to let him go so that AA can hit FA. He just came off his first 16 game season and played pretty decent overall. The cap just went up and the closest FA comparison from last offseason would likely be Star Loutetulip. 5 years/ 50 million

Dude wouldn't make 9 million in a multiyear contract as a FA. This is his payday.

I literally provided a comparison from the most recent free agency. Believe whatever you want to believe.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

No one is gonna pay that much money for an above average run defender

Then why did the Bills do exactly that?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Power baby. They can do it. Nothing neutralizes a pass rush faster than just pancaking them. And that's exactly what they are doing.

0 sacks and only 3 pressures thus far.

2 things:

-They run a lot of zone, too. Outside zone at the goal line is their best GL play lol. They're just really balanced.

-DL today have ants in their pants. They want to fire off the ball and get to the QB because of how frequent teams pass the ball, but this has backfired against the Patriots because they're winding back the clock by pounding the ball.

1. The irony in that made me LOL.
2. So true. I haven't been taking notes but from first glance, they seem to be running right at them and wearing them down.

That's not to fully minimize run defense either. Obviously if it is a major weakness, BB will attack it but with Brady, he's still going to pass too. Balance, like you say.

Originally posted by NCommand:
1. The irony in that made me LOL.
2. So true. I haven't been taking notes but from first glance, they seem to be running right at them and wearing them down.

That's not to fully minimize run defense either. Obviously if it is a major weakness, BB will attack it but with Brady, he's still going to pass too. Balance, like you say.

Adding on to #2. These DL are selling out to get to the passer, and it's killing them lol. Whether we like it or not, run defense is important.

As far as pancaking goes, at least we got to see a FORMER 49er in the run up game to the SB, and now big old Trent Brown GOES to the SB. And like you said he pancaked people, (while protecting the best QB in the game). The irony of all this is a tad more than just ...well, aw shucks. We didn't get taken but it highlites a smash 'em and gash 'em vs a ZBS, where the emphasis is on zone blocking , not power blocking. The final result of the trade however, was that overall BB got a lot more of what he wanted and needed with big Trent than what we got....and McG is not chopped liver. It just turned out PATs got more out of the trade than we did overall. Exactly like the trade for JimmmyG...we got more out of the trade than the PATS did....but that was a special situation where BB had to do something he didn't want to do.

It apppears the power blocking hasn't worked out too badly for Coach Bellichick. And their run game hasn't suffered either. Just goes to show there is more then one way to skin a cat....or in this case, have a couple of no name RBs do well in a beefy OL that just powers over defenders.

Just out of curiosity, did we somehow make a wrong turn somewhere? I love watching the Kyle O go. But the Trent trade just goes to show you can power block your way to the top, no ZBS required. Wonder if there will be a shift back to more power blocking in the next few yrs. ZBS seems to allow any RB who is decent run the ball well. But it seems so does Power blocking. But without ZBS, we never would have gotten kyle here, and in the end, that is what many, if not most of us wanted.

NCommand used the word "irony", and i was thinking a lot about that watching the PATS beat KC en route to the SB. Especially when it came to the OL and blocking for their RBs. Power blocking did just fine, and i don't recall their QB , what's-his-name, getting beaten to a pulp like our QBs have had to endure.

There's irony here on so many levels it is mind blowing. Thing is both schemes work. But Brady made it thru most of the yr mostly untouched and our QBs got mugged every game. And THAT is worth worrying about. Brady has been there HOW many yrs now? And HE has been protected. There is the big downside to ZBS, or at least ours, anyway.. It is my fervent hope that kyle makes it mandatory for all of our ZBS guys, that they be able to successfully protect our QBs from here on out. Especially now that we have OUR FR QB.

He doesn't suck. Let's not kid ourselves. He isn't great but he was above average. I don't care if he stays or goes. I think the new DL coach is going to make everyone better anyways (with or w/out him).

BB / Patriots will be glad to take AA off our hands...take him and Trent back to another SB

The thing with Armstead, is that we have guys on the roster right now who can fill in for what he does. Paying Armstead close to 9 million to do what he does is WAY TOO MUCH. If we can trade him, I would take back what ever pick we could get. If not, I would cut him to save the money (assuming he can pass a physical), and use that 9 million to sign a guy we actually need (Earl Thomas). I know we have tons of cap space, but that doesn't mean it is good business to just over pay people, just to over pay them.
Getting AA off that 9 million is smart business, if management really likes what AA brings to the table, we could then look to get him resigned for something more like 4-5 million, or just let him go.

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:
The thing with Armstead, is that we have guys on the roster right now who can fill in for what he does. Paying Armstead close to 9 million to do what he does is WAY TOO MUCH. If we can trade him, I would take back what ever pick we could get. If not, I would cut him to save the money (assuming he can pass a physical), and use that 9 million to sign a guy we actually need (Earl Thomas). I know we have tons of cap space, but that doesn't mean it is good business to just over pay people, just to over pay them.
Getting AA off that 9 million is smart business, if management really likes what AA brings to the table, we could then look to get him resigned for something more like 4-5 million, or just let him go.

amen brotha, amen.

"BuT ArMstAD pLayeD GreAT tHiS SeaSOn!"

Lol "great". Fkn scrubs on other teams out perform armstead every week.

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:
The thing with Armstead, is that we have guys on the roster right now who can fill in for what he does. Paying Armstead close to 9 million to do what he does is WAY TOO MUCH. If we can trade him, I would take back what ever pick we could get. If not, I would cut him to save the money (assuming he can pass a physical), and use that 9 million to sign a guy we actually need (Earl Thomas). I know we have tons of cap space, but that doesn't mean it is good business to just over pay people, just to over pay them.
Getting AA off that 9 million is smart business, if management really likes what AA brings to the table, we could then look to get him resigned for something more like 4-5 million, or just let him go.

It may be "smart" to pay him less, however, $9M is right in the middle of other 4-3 DEs that rank at the same level as Armstead.

If Lynch were to offer his agent $4M APY the conversation would not even include a "good bye." Earl Mitchell got $4M this past season and he gone. That is the kind of player you get for $4M.

According to overthecap, there are 20 guys on their second contract who are starters and earning over $8M APY. Armstead isn't at the top of that group but he is in it.

As others have said, let's see what Kocurek can do with him. It is obvious from Shanahan's action in firing Zgonina that Kyle believes there is a lot more production possible from the guys that are on the roster now.

We need to get over our players and realize they are all much easier to replace than we think they are, especially the ones making non statistical impact. They are definitely easy to replace with another player who can make a nonstatistical impact.

AA and ST are very easy to replace. Get a legit edge rusher and that ER with Buckner and one other big front player we already have is plenty of DL to make us a top 10 D. We just need to make sure we get a legit player next to Warner to balance it all out.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:

The thing with Armstead, is that we have guys on the roster right now who can fill in for what he does. Paying Armstead close to 9 million to do what he does is WAY TOO MUCH. If we can trade him, I would take back what ever pick we could get. If not, I would cut him to save the money (assuming he can pass a physical), and use that 9 million to sign a guy we actually need (Earl Thomas). I know we have tons of cap space, but that doesn't mean it is good business to just over pay people, just to over pay them.
Getting AA off that 9 million is smart business, if management really likes what AA brings to the table, we could then look to get him resigned for something more like 4-5 million, or just let him go.

It may be "smart" to pay him less, however, $9M is right in the middle of other 4-3 DEs that rank at the same level as Armstead.

If Lynch were to offer his agent $4M APY the conversation would not even include a "good bye." Earl Mitchell got $4M this past season and he gone. That is the kind of player you get for $4M.

According to overthecap, there are 20 guys on their second contract who are starters and earning over $8M APY. Armstead isn't at the top of that group but he is in it.

As others have said, let's see what Kocurek can do with him. It is obvious from Shanahan's action in firing Zgonina that Kyle believes there is a lot more production possible from the guys that are on the roster now.

Who is the same level as armstead

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
As far as pancaking goes, at least we got to see a FORMER 49er in the run up game to the SB, and now big old Trent Brown GOES to the SB. And like you said he pancaked people, (while protecting the best QB in the game). The irony of all this is a tad more than just ...well, aw shucks. We didn't get taken but it highlites a smash 'em and gash 'em vs a ZBS, where the emphasis is on zone blocking , not power blocking. The final result of the trade however, was that overall BB got a lot more of what he wanted and needed with big Trent than what we got....and McG is not chopped liver. It just turned out PATs got more out of the trade than we did overall. Exactly like the trade for JimmmyG...we got more out of the trade than the PATS did....but that was a special situation where BB had to do something he didn't want to do.

It apppears the power blocking hasn't worked out too badly for Coach Bellichick. And their run game hasn't suffered either. Just goes to show there is more then one way to skin a cat....or in this case, have a couple of no name RBs do well in a beefy OL that just powers over defenders.

Just out of curiosity, did we somehow make a wrong turn somewhere? I love watching the Kyle O go. But the Trent trade just goes to show you can power block your way to the top, no ZBS required. Wonder if there will be a shift back to more power blocking in the next few yrs. ZBS seems to allow any RB who is decent run the ball well. But it seems so does Power blocking. But without ZBS, we never would have gotten kyle here, and in the end, that is what many, if not most of us wanted.

NCommand used the word "irony", and i was thinking a lot about that watching the PATS beat KC en route to the SB. Especially when it came to the OL and blocking for their RBs. Power blocking did just fine, and i don't recall their QB , what's-his-name, getting beaten to a pulp like our QBs have had to endure.

There's irony here on so many levels it is mind blowing. Thing is both schemes work. But Brady made it thru most of the yr mostly untouched and our QBs got mugged every game. And THAT is worth worrying about. Brady has been there HOW many yrs now? And HE has been protected. There is the big downside to ZBS, or at least ours, anyway.. It is my fervent hope that kyle makes it mandatory for all of our ZBS guys, that they be able to successfully protect our QBs from here on out. Especially now that we have OUR FR QB.

Of course there is more than one way. But KS is supposed to change his entire offensive philosophy for one player?

Also, please stop comparing the New England Patriots to the San Francisco 49ers. If you want to use them as a measuring stick, sure. But to compare us to them in terms of success and what works? One team is a Super Bowl contender year in and out and the other is the 49ers. One team has the only QB I would consider putting ahead of Joe Montana and the other is the 49ers. Also, it's not the this system hasn't won championships before. We need not chuck the entire system because we aren't on the level of the Patriots two seasons into a total rebuild.

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:
The thing with Armstead, is that we have guys on the roster right now who can fill in for what he does. Paying Armstead close to 9 million to do what he does is WAY TOO MUCH. If we can trade him, I would take back what ever pick we could get. If not, I would cut him to save the money (assuming he can pass a physical), and use that 9 million to sign a guy we actually need (Earl Thomas). I know we have tons of cap space, but that doesn't mean it is good business to just over pay people, just to over pay them.
Getting AA off that 9 million is smart business, if management really likes what AA brings to the table, we could then look to get him resigned for something more like 4-5 million, or just let him go.

It may be "smart" to pay him less, however, $9M is right in the middle of other 4-3 DEs that rank at the same level as Armstead.

If Lynch were to offer his agent $4M APY the conversation would not even include a "good bye." Earl Mitchell got $4M this past season and he gone. That is the kind of player you get for $4M.

According to overthecap, there are 20 guys on their second contract who are starters and earning over $8M APY. Armstead isn't at the top of that group but he is in it.

As others have said, let's see what Kocurek can do with him. It is obvious from Shanahan's action in firing Zgonina that Kyle believes there is a lot more production possible from the guys that are on the roster now.

Who is the same level as armstead

Theoretically, they probably can get more from Armstead with a better D-line coach. However, what we would be hoping to see from AA is something is has never demonstrated. Not on the pro level and not at the college level either. I see AA and the best that I can possibly envision for him is an elite run stuffer.

I am hoping for a Brandon Graham signing to go along with Nick Bosa falling to number 2 to us. This way we roll with Graham-Buckner-Solomon-Bosa along the front 4 on passing downs.

I would argue he was third best player on our defense this year. Why would you dump that? I'm rooting for Armstead in 2019