DeForest Buckner Traded to the Colts

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so sick of the pro Buck arguments. Answer me this: If Defo is so good, why isn't he in the hall of fame?

Debate over/ mic drop

Dumb argument. Even if he was good enough to be in he can't be elected while still playing. Just not a good argument.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
I guess I'll take that as a "no."

Edit: And just so I'm doing more than being cryptic. I'd comfortably refer to Buckner with the following terms: "fan favorite," "local hero," "ascending player."

As 9ers fans we can call him whatever we want and insist he *will be* whatever we want, but nationally, I don't think he even has the reputation of Chris Jones, and for good reason.

I have to disagree with you on the terms. All 3 seem to indicate that he is only a good 49er but wouldn't fit in or be valuable outside of SF. Let's put this into perspective a bit. If you were building a team from scratch and asked to start with your DT position whom would you put in front of Buck outside of Donald? If that list is more than 2 people long you're not being genuine in your assessment of his skillset and are not giving him credit for what he has done on the field.

It's not uncommon to undervalue talent on "their" team because they want to say they knew them before they were "stars". Like having a band blow up that you like and no one else heard of and suddenly you feel betrayed as a "True fan".

The same argument could be used for Kittle. He's arguably the best TE in football but I don't hear anyone calling him a Superstar simply because he wears Red and Gold and isn't some outspoken personality. I'll take the guy that goes to work and dominates every day over the one that runs his mouth every day of the week.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
I think Buckner is the second best player at his position and the best 49er on the team and I think SuperStar is an subjective term that can mean a lot of different things to different people.
I don't think of any football player as a Super Star.

C'mon dude...

Originally posted by okdkid:
C'mon dude...

Create list and show the man where he's wrong. It's certainly debatable but I'm curious to see by how much you believe he's off. If he's not the 2nd, is it 3rd? 4th? Worst in the league? Back up your argument.

I'll even help get you started
1. Donald
2. You're up

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I'm so sick of the pro Buck arguments. Answer me this: If Defo is so good, why isn't he in the hall of fame?

Debate over/ mic drop

Dumb argument. Even if he was good enough to be in he can't be elected while still playing. Just not a good argument.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

You're both wrong so stop it. It wasn't specified which hall of fame so I created on for my favorite people named DeForrest. He IS in the Hall of Fame so he IS that good. Boom. Now what the hell is that that keeps flying over my head and messing up my hair?

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
I guess I'll take that as a "no."

Edit: And just so I'm doing more than being cryptic. I'd comfortably refer to Buckner with the following terms: "fan favorite," "local hero," "ascending player."

As 9ers fans we can call him whatever we want and insist he *will be* whatever we want, but nationally, I don't think he even has the reputation of Chris Jones, and for good reason.

I have to disagree with you on the terms. All 3 seem to indicate that he is only a good 49er but wouldn't fit in or be valuable outside of SF. Let's put this into perspective a bit. If you were building a team from scratch and asked to start with your DT position whom would you put in front of Buck outside of Donald? If that list is more than 2 people long you're not being genuine in your assessment of his skillset and are not giving him credit for what he has done on the field.

It's not uncommon to undervalue talent on "their" team because they want to say they knew them before they were "stars". Like having a band blow up that you like and no one else heard of and suddenly you feel betrayed as a "True fan".

The same argument could be used for Kittle. He's arguably the best TE in football but I don't hear anyone calling him a Superstar simply because he wears Red and Gold and isn't some outspoken personality. I'll take the guy that goes to work and dominates every day over the one that runs his mouth every day of the week.

None of those terms are suggesting that he wouldn't fit or be valuable on another team. Of course he would.

Instead, they're suggesting that although he is loved locally he doesn't really have a national reputation.

That's true for a lot of DTs.

For instance, just as some 9ers fans want to insist that Buckner is the second best DT in the league, good luck finding:

A) An Eagles fan who would rather have Buckner than Fletcher Cox.
B) A Chiefs fan who would rather have Buckner than Chris Jones.
C) A Bears fan who would rather have Buckner than Akiem Hicks.
D) A Chiefs fan who would rather have Buckner than Chris Jones.
E) A Packers fan who would rather have Buckner than Kenny Clark.
F) A Falcons fan who would rather have Buckner than Grady Jarrett.

You're just not going to find them, which should tell you something (and that something is NOT that everyone except for 9ers fans are homers )

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

I'm so sick of the pro Buck arguments. Answer me this: If Defo is so good, why isn't he in the hall of fame?

Debate over/ mic drop

Dumb argument. Even if he was good enough to be in he can't be elected while still playing. Just not a good argument.

I gotta believe Oakland was being sarcastic with that comment

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
None of those terms are suggesting that he wouldn't fit or be valuable on another team. Of course he would.

Instead, they're suggesting that although he is loved locally he doesn't really have a national reputation.

That's true for a lot of DTs.

For instance, just as some 9ers fans want to insist that Buckner is the second best DT in the league, good luck finding:

A) An Eagles fan who would rather have Buckner than Fletcher Cox.
B) A Chiefs fan who would rather have Buckner than Chris Jones.
C) A Bears fan who would rather have Buckner than Akiem Hicks.
D) A Chiefs fan who would rather have Buckner than Chris Jones.
E) A Packers fan who would rather have Buckner than Kenny Clark.
F) A Falcons fan who would rather have Buckner than Grady Jarrett.

You're just not going to find them, which should tell you something (and that something is NOT that everyone except for 9ers fans are homers )

No matter your opinion on where Buckner would fall into that list I give props for the well stated argument and thoughtful layout without personal attack. That ladies and gentlemen is how you debate on a message board. Well played sir.

I love Defo, but I'd take Fletcher Cox over him without thinking twice. Everything after that is a toss up. Grady Jarrett might be third on my list.

^^^ Thanks, man!

And TBH, I cheated: I just took the top 6 DTs according to PFF last year.

I'm not totally convinced PFF is great for DTs (in particular), but it did remind me of some guys that I kinda don't care about that are well respected and loved by their fanbases.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9moon:
I brought Clowney up just cos I wanted to see how you see him..

and I accidentally not saw your TOP 5 QB request, and focus more on the WRs..

OBJ is a superstar talent but has done nothing to to earn the label... he's almost on the same boat as Green (Bengals) who really need a QB to become a SUPERSTAR..

NOW.. as for my TOP 5 QBs who I BELIEVE are SUPERSTARS... HERE THEY ARE..

Aaron
Brady
Brees
Wilson
Ben

.. some may argue about Brady (legendary)... so if he no longer falls under SUPERSTAR cos he's about done.. then allow me to add RIVERS.

so your top 5 QB are superstars? okay good to know

end of the day people see that label differently...that's all

don't forget that what I bolded... some may and/or will argue about Wilson.. but to me, he's earned that label.. Brady and Brees are in the decline, but they are SUPERSTARS..

again, as for the TOP 5 DTs, it does not mean that all FIVE are SUPERSTARS..

Because if Brady - Brees - Ben - Rivers all retire now.. then you're left with Aaron and Wilson as the ONLY SUPERSTARS as a QB..

as good as Mahomes - Jimmy - Matt and the other young guns are, they just are NOT superstars yet..

to make a long story short, you can put those guys on the TOP 5 at their position tho they aren't superstars yet.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9moon:
if... if... IF?? IF???

What's with the IFS??

Why don't you just based it from the time he got in to the league??

.. then you say he'd be a SUPERSTAR if he can play 5 full season, BUT you also DON'T think he's a top 5 pass rusher??

u wanna try again??

Lol reaching yet again my dude.

I've asked you to name me the top 5 QBs in football now and tell me they're not superstars...still waiting on that one. How about current top 5 WRs?

Throwing out an injured riddled clowney to prove a point is nonsense. Kid hasn't been healthy to justify being called a top 5 talent at his position, NOW if he could have been healthy I don't doubt he'd have the stats (and paycheck) to be a bona fide superstar.

hang on hang on..

I was simply asking if you think Clowney is a superstar.. it should be a YES or NO answer only.. that's why i responded to your IF IF IF... there shouldn't be any IF... it's either yes or no..

AS FAR AS THE WRs.. here's my TOP 5.. just the ACTIVE top 5 in my opinion.

Julio (Superstar)
Obj (star)
Evans (Superstar)
AB (Superstar)
Hopkins (star)

NEXT in Line

Michael Thomas
DeVante
JuJu

.. and as far as NOT giving you my TOP 5 DT, you may want to look back at my other posts because I did agree on the list you posted.. just did not agree that all 5 are SUPERSTARS.

by the way... you put the Bengals (Green) in KC or SF, he's be a Superstar in the MAKING..

Mike Evans...8 TD/year superstar.

Look who his QB is/are/were.. and look at Julio's stats last year after Matt had a down year..

AJ Green's numbers are never gonna be UP there because Dalton is similar to Alex Smith.. he's a fine game manager..

.. just go ask EDELMAN and DEION on how Brady MADE them Super Bowl MVPs..

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

Originally posted by okdkid:
C'mon dude...

Create list and show the man where he's wrong. It's certainly debatable but I'm curious to see by how much you believe he's off. If he's not the 2nd, is it 3rd? 4th? Worst in the league? Back up your argument.

I'll even help get you started
1. Donald
2. You're up

This is a Niners fan site. So I understand logic and reason is often tossed aside in favor of fan-ism. I didn't make the argument he's a top 2 talent. Tell me how he is. Make a convincing case.

By the way -- saying Buckner is not "elite" or a top 2-3 talent doesn't qualify as hating. People act like there aren't legit elite players along the DL across this league.

Convince me he's right. Go.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

I'm so sick of the pro Buck arguments. Answer me this: If Defo is so good, why isn't he in the hall of fame?

Debate over/ mic drop

Dumb argument. Even if he was good enough to be in he can't be elected while still playing. Just not a good argument.

I gotta believe Oakland was being sarcastic with that comment