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DeForest Buckner Traded to the Colts

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  • Furlow
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,904
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Can't believe Buckner turned down $60 Million guaranteed? I'm not a capologist, but that seems like a lot for his production. He's not a great pass rusher and he's not very dominate in the run.


Exactly my reaction as well...

Please...how many sacks and pressures did he have this season? Not to mention he disappears for stretches in the season. He's good, but 60mm guaranteed? Now that sounds like crazy talk.

7.5 sacks, 11 pressures

How many DTs had more?

And pass rush isn't even the primary role for DT's. Eating up space and double teams is, which Buckner is elite at. Complaining about lack of pass rush production from a DT is like complaining about a lack of rushing yards from a WR. "Deebo Samuel only had 159 yards rushing this season, he's not worth it."
Originally posted by Furlow:
And pass rush isn't even the primary role for DT's. Eating up space and double teams is, which Buckner is elite at. Complaining about lack of pass rush production from a DT is like complaining about a lack of rushing yards from a WR. "Deebo Samuel only had 159 yards rushing this season, he's not worth it."


Look at all those double teams
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Feb 25, 2020 at 1:17 PM ]
He denies the 60m story, by the way.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
And pass rush isn't even the primary role for DT's. Eating up space and double teams is, which Buckner is elite at. Complaining about lack of pass rush production from a DT is like complaining about a lack of rushing yards from a WR. "Deebo Samuel only had 159 yards rushing this season, he's not worth it."


Look at all those double teams

Should be slotted just under Grady Jarrett at $17M APY. Perfect.
Originally posted by English:
He denies the 60m story, by the way.


Thank God!

That had me thinking he's in the wind.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Thank God!

That had me thinking he's in the wind.

He didn't technically deny it he just said, since when do we believe everything on the Internet. So he more or less called BS on turning down 60 million guaranteed which means it came from either his agency or some other source trying to drive up his new contract negotiations.
Only 6 players of the top 20 with over 250 doubles. What does that mean? Lot of respect from oc's? Bad snap management by dc's? Lack of rotation on base downs? What does a high double team snap count mean?
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Only 6 players of the top 20 with over 250 doubles. What does that mean? Lot of respect from oc's? Bad snap management by dc's? Lack of rotation on base downs? What does a high double team snap count mean?

It means he was doubled a ton, simple as that. You can't leave him one on one vs a guard.

He was in on 78% of the defensive snaps. AA was in for 75% and Bosa was 75%

Anyone trying to downplay what he does for that defense (not saying you are) doesn't really know what they're talking about IMO.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Only 6 players of the top 20 with over 250 doubles. What does that mean? Lot of respect from oc's? Bad snap management by dc's? Lack of rotation on base downs? What does a high double team snap count mean?

It means he was doubled a ton, simple as that. You can't leave him one on one vs a guard.

He was in on 78% of the defensive snaps. AA was in for 75% and Bosa was 75%

Anyone trying to downplay what he does for that defense (not saying you are) doesn't really know what they're talking about IMO.

Yes, he helps everyone around him.
Unpopular but true: we should move on slowly from Buckner and Armstead.

Great players but neither are probowlers or all pros but want to be paid like it.

It doesn't appear that either want to stay more than get paid, and our defense would better moving to more of a PFF suggested model of playing great coverage and manufacturing pressure.

Then we overload on offense. That is how the league is moving teams, so don't fight it.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Unpopular but true: we should move on slowly from Buckner and Armstead.

Great players but neither are probowlers or all pros but want to be paid like it.

It doesn't appear that either want to stay more than get paid, and our defense would better moving to more of a PFF suggested model of playing great coverage and manufacturing pressure.

Then we overload on offense. That is how the league is moving teams, so don't fight it.

Originally posted by bigwads:
Unpopular but true: we should move on slowly from Buckner and Armstead.

Great players but neither are probowlers or all pros but want to be paid like it.

It doesn't appear that either want to stay more than get paid, and our defense would better moving to more of a PFF suggested model of playing great coverage and manufacturing pressure.

Then we overload on offense. That is how the league is moving teams, so don't fight it.


Interesting take, but just because our HC/GM want to have a stiff, best DL in the league, and after a total rebuild of 45 man roster (except Joe S, buck, and AA) we end up in SB, damn near winning it, except for a helmet to helmet on our QB with 7 mins left in game. Yes, we are a running team, but with 3 RBs who are good receivers, an all pro TE who put up best stats ever for a TE in yr 1 and PFF voted best player in NFL in yr 2, plus Dwelley who i think has showed he is ready to i start, and Toilolo, who is excellent starter/ backup, and all 3 are excellent blockers....then there is Emmanuel, Deebo, and Bourne, good WRs all, (tho no #1s, and all 2 "As")...then the ultimate weapon in Au Jus, again another great receiver....and we have a fascinating guy waiting in the wings, Hurd, a guy who could push this team over the top.

Thing is, kyle and john have built a best running team in the league, and have a very good receiving team as well. Surely someone could argue that perhaps kyle should have used more in our passing game while we are primarily a running team. At end of yr, we had basically become just a running team. Probably, or maybe it would have been a better idea to use a tad more passing game just so it didn't get rusty. But if our HC and GM want to have a running team in the era of all passing teams....that's fine by me. If it hadn't been for an obvious but uncalled penalty for a helmet on helmet with 7 mins to go on our QB, i still think we win that game. And yes this team has a screaming good DL, best in the league if Dee is playing which he did only 226 times last yr. Had he been able to play half time which was the initial plan, we would have probably been unbeatable, assuming he could play 100% in SB.

It didn't turn out that way, but this team has been built around its fantastic DL. We have been drafting DLs in first round for 3 yrs in a row. We are basically a tough D team with an overpowering running game, and a very good but underused passing game. With more use, i believe our passing game would be way better, just with the current "ball catchers" we have. Our best DL in the league(best front 7, also), is only true when Dee is healthy and playing. Rather than let AA and DeFo go, it would seem much simpler to go the other way and bring in a DE/ER who is healthy that can get our front 4 on any QB just as fast as the ball is snapped. Without that 4th DL, we are just a very good DL. So rather than go all in for an Andy Reid/ Mahomes type O, make it simple. Just find us another ER who is healthy and then terrorize the NFL once again like we did this past season.

We are sooo close to having the "almost perfect team" if we can just find a healthy ER.. Doing it as you suggest, letting AA and Buck go slowly over the next few yrs, (instead of finding a healthy replacement for Dee), just seems a lot harder than taking this powerful O and completely redoing it. Easier is almost always better, especially when we have a powerhouse D PLUS a best running game in the league, and a a very capable passing game. Changing over to an all passing game just doesn't seem like the way to go. ..to me , anyway. We are so close as we are, minus a top flite 4th DL to replace Dee. He was a good idea, but developing a hamstring after having tendinitis both knees, just means he will not be able to even play 50% of snaps.

Bottom line, not only keep both DeFo and AA, damn the torpedoes and get us that 4th DL/ER . The Dee experiment didn't pan out, and 226 snaps doesn't cut it. That sure seems a lot easier than what you are proposing.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Feb 26, 2020 at 8:25 AM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Unpopular but true: we should move on slowly from Buckner and Armstead.

Great players but neither are probowlers or all pros but want to be paid like it.

It doesn't appear that either want to stay more than get paid, and our defense would better moving to more of a PFF suggested model of playing great coverage and manufacturing pressure.

Then we overload on offense. That is how the league is moving teams, so don't fight it.


Interesting take, but just because our HC/GM want to have a stiff, best DL in the league, and after a total rebuild of 45 man roster (except Joe S, buck, and AA) we end up in SB, damn near winning it, except for a helmet to helmet on our QB with 7 mins left in game. Yes, we are a running team, but with 3 RBs who are good receivers, an all pro TE who put up best stats ever for a TE in yr 1 and PFF voted best player in NFL in yr 2, plus Dwelley who i think has showed he is ready to i start, and Toilolo, who is excellent starter/ backup, and all 3 are excellent blockers....then there is Emmanuel, Deebo, and Bourne, good WRs all, (tho no #1s, and all 2 "As")...then the ultimate weapon in Au Jus, again another great receiver....and we have a fascinating guy waiting in the wings, Hurd, a guy who could push this team over the top.

Thing is, kyle and john have built a best running team in the league, and have a very good receiving team as well. Surely someone could argue that perhaps kyle should have used more in our passing game while we are primarily a running team. At end of yr, we had basically become just a running team. Probably, or maybe it would have been a better idea to use a tad more passing game just so it didn't get rusty. But if our HC and GM want to have a running team in the era of all passing teams....that's fine by me. If it hadn't been for an obvious but uncalled penalty for a helmet on helmet with 7 mins to go on our QB, i still think we win that game. And yes this team has a screaming good DL, best in the league if Dee is playing which he did only 226 times last yr. Had he been able to play half time which was the initial plan, we would have probably been unbeatable, assuming he could play 100% in SB.

It didn't turn out that way, but this team has been built around its fantastic DL. We have been drafting DLs in first round for 3 yrs in a row. We are basically a tough D team with an overpowering running game, and a very good but underused passing game. With more use, i believe our passing game would be way better, just with the current "ball catchers" we have. Our best DL in the league(best front 7, also), is only true when Dee is healthy and playing. Rather than let AA and DeFo go, it would seem much simpler to go the other way and bring in a DE/ER who is healthy that can get our front 4 on any QB just as fast as the ball is snapped. Without that 4th DL, we are just a very good DL. So rather than go all in for an Andy Reid/ Mahomes type O, make it simple. Just find us another ER who is healthy and then terrorize the NFL once again like we did this past season.

We are sooo close to having the "almost perfect team" if we can just find a healthy ER.. Doing it as you suggest, letting AA and Buck go slowly over the next few yrs, (instead of finding a healthy replacement for Dee), just seems a lot harder than taking this powerful O and completely redoing it. Easier is almost always better, especially when we have a powerhouse D PLUS a best running game in the league, and a a very capable passing game. Changing over to an all passing game just doesn't seem like the way to go. ..to me , anyway. We are so close as we are, minus a top flite 4th DL to replace Dee. He was a good idea, but developing a hamstring after having tendinitis both knees, just means he will not be able to even play 50% of snaps.

Bottom line, not only keep both DeFo and AA, damn the torpedoes and get us that 4th DL/ER . The Dee experiment didn't pan out, and 226 snaps doesn't cut it. That sure seems a lot easier than what you are proposing.

Ummmm ford had 6.5 sacks in 10 games.... which is pretty darn good. When ford is on the field the pass rush wakes up. He clearly positively impacts the defense and he will next season when he's 100 percent
  • okdkid
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 23,204
Originally posted by rto66:
Ummmm ford had 6.5 sacks in 10 games.... which is pretty darn good. When ford is on the field the pass rush wakes up. He clearly positively impacts the defense and he will next season when he's 100 percent

Yeah, it's good.

30% of snaps for $17M is not good. 6.5 sacks on the year for $17M is not good. Newly developed chronic knee issues are not good.

Yes, he will be back next year to prove himself. That's a given.

However, should he not be equally productive with at least 60% of snaps across the season... there's a real chance the team moves in a cheaper direction in 2021.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Unpopular but true: we should move on slowly from Buckner and Armstead.

Great players but neither are probowlers or all pros but want to be paid like it.

It doesn't appear that either want to stay more than get paid, and our defense would better moving to more of a PFF suggested model of playing great coverage and manufacturing pressure.

Then we overload on offense. That is how the league is moving teams, so don't fight it.

Unpopular and also not true.....if pass rushing talent didn't matter, than DL wouldn't keep getting drafted high every yr.
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