Kirk Cousins

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Had a wide open WR in the endzone in the final minute to beat Dallas last week, he never bothered to look to his right side...

He looked to his left instead and threw game ending INT

This "you like that" footage always cracks me up. Cousins sounded like if he had just won the Super Bowl for the Redskins. LOL. But, he spoke too soon, I think it was a week or two after that, he craped in his pants again like he always does in big games and lost to the Giants and destroyed all hopes and dreams of the Redskins fans of going to the playoffs.

Someone needs to do a spoof or something and get Scot McCloughan to scream back "you like that".

Always does? You realize the guy has started two seasons in the league and plays for one of the worst franchises in professional sports?

You are going to eat so much crow if the 49ers get Cousins.

Anyone who would not want cousins playing for the 49ers next season loses all credibility. All. There are 0 better options available.

I like Garo too. had him as my #2 Qb in the draft, and really wanted the 49ers to draft him. I think he is a stud. But guess what? Cousins is a better QB RIGHT NOW. He has chemistry with the HC and knows the system. There is no better fit.

Why should I be eating crow?

I know Kyle Shanahan likes him and it would be a huge mistake to sign him.

Now, let's be objective here, Kirk Cousins is an OK QB, not bad, but nothing out of the ordinary if you will. He is a QB amongst the main pack. If that's what you are after, then he is your man. But, since the 9ers are starting from scratch at the position and if you want to go after a QB with a far bigger upside and potential, then no.

Then, there is the issue of price tag. It will cost absolutely tons to trade for him, perhaps as much as 2 x 1st and that is only the trading part of the equation. His big contract will be absolutely ginormous, estimated to be in the region of $22 mil a year. $22 mil for an elite QB is OK, but not for a run of the mill QB.

There are plenty of options out there only if you look for them. You are just one of those who saw the 4,900 yards, right away creamed in your pants without looking into the numbers and tried to understand what they actually meant:

1) Can't finish drives, almost 5,000 yards and yet only had 25 TDs to show for. Other 5,000 yard throwers have a minimum of 37 TDs.

2) Pick prone, terrible TD/INT ratio 25/12. Pretty much for every 2 TDs he will throw a pick. Again other 5,000 yard throwers have a far superior TD/INT ratio. Matt Ryan 38/7, Aaron Rodgers 40/6.

3) Worst of all, tendency to fold in big moments and big games. For example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-redskins-needed-a-big-game-from-kirk-cousins-but-he-just-didnt-have-it/2016/12/20/e79fe3cc-c623-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.6fee16ba2b61

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-redskins-contract-salary-2017-free-agency-nfl-playoff-picture/11mxcc2c45izs1jzzmvwkx9ka7

What I would advise you to do is to have a bit of foresight. Don't just look at the 4,900 yards and think he is the second coming. Exercise some self control and set your sights on a QB that has far better upside and not to put your eggs into one basket. Plus, remember we don't need to win big right away this year. We have time on our side. In other words, we can develop promising young QBs.

The kind of benchmarks that we should be looking at in finding our next franchise QB should be players like Derek Carr, almost 4,000 yards, 28 TDs 6 INTs. Also, don't overlook on the players' college stats neither. Although the competition level might be different between different divisions, but very often you can spot the tendencies. Based on their last year's college stats:

• Kirk Cousins (Michigan State) - 2011, 25 TDs 10 INTs
• Derek Carr (Fresno State) - 2013, 50 TDs 8 INTs
• Jimmy Garoppolo (Eastern Illinois) - 2013, 53 TDs 9 INTs

Just look at Cousins' stats, extremely similar to what he is doing now in the league, i.e. low number of TDs and high number of INTs, that's just his MO.

And now, look at Derek Carr's stats, of course NFL is not college and is unrealistic to expect him to score 50 TDs, but again the pattern is there, high number of TDs and low number of INTs.

All in all, it points to where Cousins is at. The upside has been next to absent. Yes, he upped his total yards, but unfortunately with nothing much to show for in terms of scoring. Once you couple that with his tendency of folding in big games, he really isn't as good as you think he is.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
lol

At which part ?

Judging things based off college careers. For one, both QB's played in two different offenses. Two, I don't think Watson will transition to the NFL like Cousins has and be more productive than Cousins.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Judging things based off college careers. For one, both QB's played in two different offenses. Two, I don't think Watson will transition to the NFL like Cousins has and be more productive than Cousins.

What else can you possible judge Watson and Mitch off of? Redskins obviously believe Cousins is an average QB who needs a great team around him to win, and seems like they might want a guy with a higher ceiling. Kirk has had 5 years to develop and is gonna be 29 when the next season start and is going to require a massive contract. Not unreasonable for a team to start fresh with a guy who's gonna be 22.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Judging things based off college careers. For one, both QB's played in two different offenses. Two, I don't think Watson will transition to the NFL like Cousins has and be more productive than Cousins.

What else can you possible judge Watson and Mitch off of? Redskins obviously believe Cousins is an average QB who needs a great team around him to win, and seems like they might want a guy with a higher ceiling. Kirk has had 5 years to develop and is gonna be 29 when the next season start and is going to require a massive contract. Not unreasonable for a team to start fresh with a guy who's gonna be 22.

There's other things besides the games they played and the production they produced. For instance, Cousins is accustomed to reading the field due to the offense he was he ran in college. Watson, while in the shot-gun and pistol a lot, was coached to just read 1 to 2 progressions and that's already be proven and discussed. And when you develop certain tendencies in college it's hard to shake them making your transition harder to the NFL. I just don't see Watson being that 4,000 yard passer the way Cousins is, why, because he has a tendency to take off if his first or second read is covered. IMO, I think Watson will be better off sitting for 2-3 years to give him time to get his mechanics and footwork down, not to mention learning a NFL offense. But Watson will most likely be picked in the 1st round on a possible s**tty team like the Browns and fans will want to see him start sooner rather than give him time to grow. And I feel if you start this kid too early it will kill his confidence and struggle to find a comfort zone - see Blaine Gabbert.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Judging things based off college careers. For one, both QB's played in two different offenses. Two, I don't think Watson will transition to the NFL like Cousins has and be more productive than Cousins.

What else can you possible judge Watson and Mitch off of? Redskins obviously believe Cousins is an average QB who needs a great team around him to win, and seems like they might want a guy with a higher ceiling. Kirk has had 5 years to develop and is gonna be 29 when the next season start and is going to require a massive contract. Not unreasonable for a team to start fresh with a guy who's gonna be 22.

Bravo, very well said.

The Redskins has been doing the right thing. They knew Cousins were average and they knew he would fold in big games. And true enough viola, the pivotal game against the Giants for a spot in the playoffs and the guy never failed to oblige, soiled his pants with instantaneous diarrhea and personally delivered the playoff berth to Eli Manning & Co by throwing not just 1, but 2 picks.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

There's other things besides the games they played and the production they produced. For instance, Cousins is accustomed to reading the field due to the offense he was he ran in college. Watson, while in the shot-gun and pistol a lot, was coached to just read 1 to 2 progressions and that's already be proven and discussed. And when you develop certain tendencies in college it's hard to shake them making your transition harder to the NFL. I just don't see Watson being that 4,000 yard passer the way Cousins is, why, because he has a tendency to take off if his first or second read is covered. IMO, I think Watson will be better off sitting for 2-3 years to give him time to get his mechanics and footwork down, not to mention learning a NFL offense. But Watson will most likely be picked in the 1st round on a possible s**tty team like the Browns and fans will want to see him start sooner rather than give him time to grow. And I feel if you start this kid too early it will kill his confidence and struggle to find a comfort zone - see Blaine Gabbert.

Great points. What it'll come down to is what it does for every college qb, can they develop. Mariota appears to have, Derek Carr has, many think Jimmy G has. Everyone has made it clear that the college spread offense is a huge hurdle to jump but guys have done it. There's a big risk in taking Watson that high but he's a serious gamer, not too unreasonable to think he can make the next step.

s**t two 4,000 plus yard seasons. 2015 had the 4th toughest schedule and this year had the 3rd toughest and looked like the best player on the field against a team loaded with first round defensive talent in the championship game. Spread offense or not, pretty damn impressive in my eyes and it means a lot.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Why should I be eating crow?

I know Kyle Shanahan likes him and it would be a huge mistake to sign him.

Now, let's be objective here, Kirk Cousins is an OK QB, not bad, but nothing out of the ordinary if you will. He is a QB amongst the main pack. If that's what you are after, then he is your man. But, since the 9ers are starting from scratch at the position and if you want to go after a QB with a far bigger upside and potential, then no.

Then, there is the issue of price tag. It will cost absolutely tons to trade for him, perhaps as much as 2 x 1st and that is only the trading part of the equation. His big contract will be absolutely ginormous, estimated to be in the region of $22 mil a year. $22 mil for an elite QB is OK, but not for a run of the mill QB.

There are plenty of options out there only if you look for them. You are just one of those who saw the 4,900 yards, right away creamed in your pants without looking into the numbers and tried to understand what they actually meant:

1) Can't finish drives, almost 5,000 yards and yet only had 25 TDs to show for. Other 5,000 yard throwers have a minimum of 37 TDs.

2) Pick prone, terrible TD/INT ratio 25/12. Pretty much for every 2 TDs he will throw a pick. Again other 5,000 yard throwers have a far superior TD/INT ratio. Matt Ryan 38/7, Aaron Rodgers 40/6.

3) Worst of all, tendency to fold in big moments and big games. For example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-redskins-needed-a-big-game-from-kirk-cousins-but-he-just-didnt-have-it/2016/12/20/e79fe3cc-c623-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.6fee16ba2b61

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-redskins-contract-salary-2017-free-agency-nfl-playoff-picture/11mxcc2c45izs1jzzmvwkx9ka7

What I would advise you to do is to have a bit of foresight. Don't just look at the 4,900 yards and think he is the second coming. Exercise some self control and set your sights on a QB that has far better upside and not to put your eggs into one basket. Plus, remember we don't need to win big right away this year. We have time on our side. In other words, we can develop promising young QBs.

The kind of benchmarks that we should be looking at in finding our next franchise QB should be players like Derek Carr, almost 4,000 yards, 28 TDs 6 INTs. Also, don't overlook on the players' college stats neither. Although the competition level might be different between different divisions, but very often you can spot the tendencies. Based on their last year's college stats:

• Kirk Cousins (Michigan State) - 2011, 25 TDs 10 INTs
• Derek Carr (Fresno State) - 2013, 50 TDs 8 INTs
• Jimmy Garoppolo (Eastern Illinois) - 2013, 53 TDs 9 INTs

Just look at Cousins' stats, extremely similar to what he is doing now in the league, i.e. low number of TDs and high number of INTs, that's just his MO.

And now, look at Derek Carr's stats, of course NFL is not college and is unrealistic to expect him to score 50 TDs, but again the pattern is there, high number of TDs and low number of INTs.

All in all, it points to where Cousins is at. The upside has been next to absent. Yes, he upped his total yards, but unfortunately with nothing much to show for in terms of scoring. Once you couple that with his tendency of folding in big games, he really isn't as good as you think he is.

Im pretty sure i remember having arguments with you in the draft room where you told me Carr was overrated and would be like David. Or am i remembering incorrectly?

You realize Derek Carr played against teams like University of Idaho his senior year?(im not saying anything negative about Carr, He was my #1 Qb. I am saying that the competition was not there).

You tell me to not look in the past, then you go and pull college stats out of your ass? Why not post some real stats. Should i start posting the similarities to Drew Brees? Lol at posting comparisons of Cousins last season in Washington to Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers MVP runs.

We have two years of Kirk Cousins film in the NFL. What that film tells us is Cousins can get it done and perform like a top ten QB under the right circumstances. And we just so happen to have hired someone as our HC who loves the kid and can tailor an offense to fit his strengths, What other GB on the market or in the draft has done the same or offers the same chemistry right out of the gates?

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Im pretty sure i remember having arguments with you in the draft room where you told me Carr was overrated and would be like David. Or am i remembering incorrectly?

You realize Derek Carr played against teams like University of Idaho his senior year?(im not saying anything negative about Carr, He was my #1 Qb. I am saying that the competition was not there).

You tell me to not look in the past, then you go and pull college stats out of your ass? Why not post some real stats. Should i start posting the similarities to Drew Brees? Lol at posting comparisons of Cousins last season in Washington to Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers MVP runs.

We have two years of Kirk Cousins film in the NFL. What that film tells us is Cousins can get it done and perform like a top ten QB under the right circumstances. And we just so happen to have hired someone as our HC who loves the kid and can tailor an offense to fit his strengths, What other GB on the market or in the draft has done the same or offers the same chemistry right out of the gates?

Absolutely not!! Derek Carr was my favourite QB in that draft class. You got the wrong guy.

And when did I tell you not to look in the past?

You make Kirk Cousins sound elite which cannot be any further from the truth. Let's just take it as what he really is, he is OK, he is not sh*t, but he ain't great neither.

Look at the stats, bro. Cousins has been very consistent from Michigan State till now. It is what it is. The dude is average with the rest of the pack.

There is nothing to argue about. If Shanahan wants him, then be it and good luck with that. I hope he doesn't, it would be a massively myopic move.

Cousins is overrated, I say pass.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Absolutely not!! Derek Carr was my favourite QB in that draft class. You got the wrong guy.

And when did I tell you not to look in the past?

You make Kirk Cousins sound elite which cannot be any further from the truth. Let's just take it as what he really is, he is OK, he is not sh*t, but he ain't great neither.

Look at the stats, bro. Cousins has been very consistent from Michigan State till now. It is what it is. The dude is average with the rest of the pack.

There is nothing to argue about. If Shanahan wants him, then be it and good luck with that. I hope he doesn't, it would be a massively myopic move.

Saying he is average and "with the rest of the pack" over and over doesn't make it so. The "rest of the pack" dont throw for nearly 5k yards in a season with a very nice comp% and QBR. and the "rest of the pack" sure as hell don't do it in DC.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Cousins is overrated, I say pass.

I love you Mayo, but your dead wrong on this one. Kid is about to blow up similar to how Drew Brees did. He just needs to get out of DC.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Saying he is average and "with the rest of the pack" over and over doesn't make it so. The "rest of the pack" dont throw for nearly 5k yards in a season with a very nice comp% and QBR. and the "rest of the pack" sure as hell don't do it in DC.

Again, you are making the mistake of misinterpreting the 5,000 yards that you keep screaming about. You have been totally blinded once you see that 5k number.

What did I tell you in my post? Throwing 5,000 yards in isolation doesn't mean anything .You have to look at other things such as TDs and INTs.

Take a look at Derek Carr's numbers since we have been talking about him. He only threw for 3,900 yards, a full 1,000 yards less than your boy, Cousins. But, guess what?

• Cousins - 25 TDs 12 INTs
• Carr - 28 TDs 6 INTs

Tell me, what are those numbers telling you?

Is quite simple really, if Cousins needs to throw for almost 5,000 yards in order to score 25 TDs, that basically means he is not a very efficient thrower and most importantly he just can't get it done when it counts most as in scoring TDs.

Sure, his completion % is good, no argument there, but he just can't convert them to TDs which is a huge problem.

The even more alarming and disappointing thing is not only can he not score TDs, the guy is struggling just to make those 25 TDs. Why? Because he is making twice and I stress 2x the amount of mistakes of Carr by throwing 12 picks.

That is really bad. Look, throwing picks is part of the game and we understand that, but everything is relative especially when you want to proclaim him as elite due solely on his 5,000 yards. The worst (if you can call it that) of those 5,000 yard throwers was Drew Brees. He threw 15 INTs, but guess what? At least he scored 37 TDs at the same time, although is not as good as Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers, it is still a far superior TD/INT ratio than Cousins.

I hope that should be self-explanatory.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Cousins is overrated, I say pass.

I love you Mayo, but your dead wrong on this one. Kid is about to blow up similar to how Drew Brees did. He just needs to get out of DC.

He puts up the numbers, but he's yet to bring his club to a division title or anything in the playoffs. He's a good player, but I rather take Garoppolo.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Saying he is average and "with the rest of the pack" over and over doesn't make it so. The "rest of the pack" dont throw for nearly 5k yards in a season with a very nice comp% and QBR. and the "rest of the pack" sure as hell don't do it in DC.

Again, you are making the mistake of misinterpreting the 5,000 yards that you keep screaming about. You have been totally blinded once you see that 5k number.

What did I tell you in my post? Throwing 5,000 yards in isolation doesn't mean anything .You have to look at other things such as TDs and INTs.

Take a look at Derek Carr's numbers since we have been talking about him. He only threw for 3,900 yards, a full 1,000 yards less than your boy, Cousins. But, guess what?

• Cousins - 25 TDs 12 INTs
• Carr - 28 TDs 6 INTs

Tell me, what are those numbers telling you?

Is quite simple really, if Cousins needs to throw for almost 5,000 yards in order to score 25 TDs, that basically means he is not a very efficient thrower and most importantly he just can't get it done when it counts most as in scoring TDs.

Sure, his completion % is good, no argument there, but he just can't convert them to TDs which is a huge problem.

The even more alarming and disappointing thing is not only can he not score TDs, the guy is struggling just to make those 25 TDs. Why? Because he is making twice and I stress 2x the amount of mistakes of Carr by throwing 12 picks.

That is really bad. Look, throwing picks is part of the game and we understand that, but everything is relative especially when you want to proclaim him as elite due solely on his 5,000 yards. The worst (if you can call it that) of those 5,000 yard throwers was Drew Brees. He threw 15 INTs, but guess what? At least he scored 37 TDs at the same time, although is not as good as Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers, it is still a far superior TD/INT ratio than Cousins.

I hope that should be self-explanatory.

Again talking about stats in isolation. have you seen your posts? How about comparing their WR's and supporting casts? i have already been through this with you. The redskins Redzone scheme/scoring sucks, and neither of their 1/2 Wr's are really scoring threats. Especially as the field shortens. Go looks at their career scoring numbers. And LOL at posting starts of a QB that had 3 more TD's and acting like he is light years better.

The fact that you run around here acting like Cousins is a bad QB shows how little credibility you have. We get it. You want one specific guy. maybe two. and if we get anyone else then its chicken little time.

What Cousins "numbers are telling me" is that yes, Cousins can and will be an elite QB in this league.

Im not the one disregarding stats. Look at the comp%. Look at the QBR. Look at the talent at WR.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Cousins is overrated, I say pass.

I love you Mayo, but your dead wrong on this one. Kid is about to blow up similar to how Drew Brees did. He just needs to get out of DC.

He puts up the numbers, but he's yet to bring his club to a division title or anything in the playoffs. He's a good player, but I rather take Garoppolo.

Garo was my second ranked QB in his draft behind Carr i love Garo. His ceiling MAY be higher. But that a big maybe. cousins is ready to go, about to hit his prime, and a perfect fit.

He has had two seasons as a starting QB in DC. The fact that people run around here saying he is a choke artist is just ridiculous.

Do you have any idea how horrible Payton Manning was in the playoffs throughout his career?