Kirk Cousins

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Cousins is not worth 2 first rounders, Washington won't let him hit free agency without a tag.

As much as all the back and forth is interesting, I don't see it becomming relevant unless something is going on that I've missed in regards to Cousins and the Skins.

I just read yesterday that Washington is seriously considering letting Cousins hit FA to set his true market value. If he is leaving next year anyway why set your team back another year? If Cousins really doesn't want to be there then you need to start looking for his replacement now. Cousins is due roughly 25 million this year and $35 next year. Washington waited to long to give him a contract and now they are going to pay the price. Nobody wants to work with a disgruntled employee, especially one who plays QB. Its not completely out of the question.

Odd. Not sure I see why Wash. should do this.

I could. Basically, Cousins got butthurt when Washington didn't want to give him a great long-term deal with the kind of guaranteed money that he wanted last year. That was why he got franchise tagged. Ever since, Cousins has been pis*ed with the organization, especially with Scot McCloughan and hence the "you like that" clip.

All along what Scot did was right because he knew full well that Cousins is really only average and has the tendency to fold in big games. And true enough, viola the Giants game. The Redskins were all ready to go to the playoffs, that was until Cousins crapped in his pants yet again and decided to throw not one, but two picks and destroyed all hopes for the Redskins fans.

So, now that Kyle Shanahan has become his own boss, being the new 9ers head coach, of course Cousins fancies his chance in being the new 9ers QB, is sad I know. Scot also knows that whereby a split is probably inevitable. So, why not let Cousins test the market and at least get something back for him especially if Washington could totally cream it say with 2 x 1st? They can then draft a top QB and sign a bridge QB this year and play the rookie come next year. To be honest, this will work out great in Washington's favour.

The party that is going to come off worse will be the 9ers if we end up signing Cousins. One, we will lose a truckload of high picks, two we will be setting a new NFL record by giving Cousins the biggest contract in history for an average QB.

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by English:

I'd like to read it. So, if memory serves that leaves them starting Colt McCoy in 2017?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/2/18/14650372/kirk-cousins-free-agency-franchise-tag-washington-2017-offseason

Here it is, Its a pretty good read.

Thanks, interesting. Have to say, Wash. have not handled it all that well. Had our management bricked themselves into this corner this place would have been frothing.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Cousins is not worth 2 first rounders, Washington won't let him hit free agency without a tag.

As much as all the back and forth is interesting, I don't see it becomming relevant unless something is going on that I've missed in regards to Cousins and the Skins.

I just read yesterday that Washington is seriously considering letting Cousins hit FA to set his true market value. If he is leaving next year anyway why set your team back another year? If Cousins really doesn't want to be there then you need to start looking for his replacement now. Cousins is due roughly 25 million this year and $35 next year. Washington waited to long to give him a contract and now they are going to pay the price. Nobody wants to work with a disgruntled employee, especially one who plays QB. Its not completely out of the question.

Odd. Not sure I see why Wash. should do this.

I read something of the sort on Rotoworld, but if they do let him walk, it will be because there is absolutely no way they can strike a deal with Cousins. And since Gruden's days might be numbered, no since keep a disgruntled QB that could possibly end up shooting you in the foot with a sub par record. Honestly, if Jay Gruden was smart he'd start over with a new QB to buy him more time, even if he's not on the hot seat.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

They are not elite scoring WR's. Thats fact. look at their career numbers. Even with Manning Garcon was not lighting the world on fire with TD's And Jackson is pretty much worthless in the redzone. Both his 1/2 are able to put up YAC, so that accounts for some of his passing yardage, but neither are efficeint scoring WR's and thats been the knock on cousins for last season was his td/int ration.

Garçon is a good scoring WR, not great though. Crowder is getting better in the red zone, and they have Jordan f**kin reed the second best TE in the league. If there's a problem scoring with Reed, Garçon, Crowder, Jackson, Chris Thompson, in the red zone. With Kirk Cousins as QB, then there's a serious problem.

Don't forget Crabtree went from averaging 4.5 td a year to 8.5 with a new qb and team

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Cousins is not worth 2 first rounders, Washington won't let him hit free agency without a tag.

As much as all the back and forth is interesting, I don't see it becomming relevant unless something is going on that I've missed in regards to Cousins and the Skins.

I just read yesterday that Washington is seriously considering letting Cousins hit FA to set his true market value. If he is leaving next year anyway why set your team back another year? If Cousins really doesn't want to be there then you need to start looking for his replacement now. Cousins is due roughly 25 million this year and $35 next year. Washington waited to long to give him a contract and now they are going to pay the price. Nobody wants to work with a disgruntled employee, especially one who plays QB. Its not completely out of the question.

Odd. Not sure I see why Wash. should do this.

I could. Basically, Cousins got butthurt when Washington didn't want to give him a great long-term deal with the kind of guaranteed money that he wanted last year. That was why he got franchise tagged. Ever since, Cousins has been pis*ed with the organization, especially with Scot McCloughan and hence the "you like that" clip.

All along what Scot did was right because he knew full well that Cousins is really only average and has the tendency to fold in big games. And true enough, viola the Giants game. The Redskins were all ready to go to the playoffs, that was until Cousins crapped in his pants yet again and decided to throw not one, but two picks and destroyed all hopes for the Redskins fans.

So, now that Kyle Shanahan has become his own boss, being the new 9ers head coach, of course Cousins fancies his chance in being the new 9ers QB, is sad I know. Scot also knows that whereby a split is probably inevitable. So, why not let Cousins test the market and at least get something back for him especially if Washington could totally cream it say with 2 x 1st? They can then draft a top QB and sign a bridge QB this year and play the rookie come next year. To be honest, this will work out great in Washington's favour.

The party that is going to come off worse will be the 9ers if we end up signing Cousins. One, we will lose a truckload of high picks, two we will be setting a new NFL record by giving Cousins the biggest contract in history for an average QB.

Why would we do that when we could just sign him as a FA next year and not give up any picks? Next year Washington has to let him go anyways if he wont sign a long term contract. The franchise tag next year would pay Cousins roughly 35 million. A price to steep for anyone to pay.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:

They are not elite scoring WR's. Thats fact. look at their career numbers. Even with Manning Garcon was not lighting the world on fire with TD's And Jackson is pretty much worthless in the redzone. Both his 1/2 are able to put up YAC, so that accounts for some of his passing yardage, but neither are efficeint scoring WR's and thats been the knock on cousins for last season was his td/int ration.

Garçon is a good scoring WR, not great though. Crowder is getting better in the red zone, and they have Jordan f**kin reed the second best TE in the league. If there's a problem scoring with Reed, Garçon, Crowder, Jackson, Chris Thompson, in the red zone. With Kirk Cousins as QB, then there's a serious problem.

Don't forget Crabtree went from averaging 4.5 td a year to 8.5 with a new qb and team

Hard to score TDs when nobody respects your run game in the redzone.

Originally posted by Rascal:

I could. Basically, Cousins got butthurt when Washington didn't want to give him a great long-term deal with the kind of guaranteed money that he wanted last year. That was why he got franchise tagged. Ever since, Cousins has been pis*ed with the organization, especially with Scot McCloughan and hence the "you like that" clip.

All along what Scot did was right because he knew full well that Cousins is really only average and has the tendency to fold in big games. And true enough, viola the Giants game. The Redskins were all ready to go to the playoffs, that was until Cousins crapped in his pants yet again and decided to throw not one, but two picks and destroyed all hopes for the Redskins fans.

So, now that Kyle Shanahan has become his own boss, being the new 9ers head coach, of course Cousins fancies his chance in being the new 9ers QB, is sad I know. Scot also knows that whereby a split is probably inevitable. So, why not let Cousins test the market and at least get something back for him especially if Washington could totally cream it say with 2 x 1st? They can then draft a top QB and sign a bridge QB this year and play the rookie come next year. To be honest, this will work out great in Washington's favour.

The party that is going to come off worse will be the 9ers if we end up signing Cousins. One, we will lose a truckload of high picks, two we will be setting a new NFL record by giving Cousins the biggest contract in history for an average QB.

We aren't going to lose any picks. We aren't going to give Wash. two 1st rounders. It appears Wash. are now considering cutting lose from him. I don't know if I want him but it isn't going to be a Herschel Walker deal.

Originally posted by jcs:
Carr's QBR is literally over 10 points less than Cousins. You can't ignore the 4 rushing TDs that Cousins has contributed to none for Carr. 12 picks is not a lot, especially when you compare it to other Franchise QB's like Drew Brees (15), Phillip Rivers (21), Joe Flacco (15), Andrew Luck (13), Carson Palmer (14), Jameis Winston (18), Eli Manning (16), Ben Rothlisberger (13), Cam Newton (14).

If you are basing your rankings on INT's tossed then are you putting Kap (4) ahead of Carr(6)?

Pardon me? 12 picks is not a lot? That also depends on how many TDs you throw. Sure, Drew Brees has 15 INTs, but guess how many TDs did he score? 37, bro!! That is a massive 12 TDs more than Cousins, just in case you haven't noticed!

The rest of the QBs you named all are pretty much in the pack. What IdahoNiner was trying to say is Cousins is elite which he obviously isn't.

You totally missed the point. I am not evaluating QBs purely based on INTs alone, it is the TD/INT ratio, in other words if you are trigger happy and pick prone, you better throw a ton of TDs. Get it? But, unfortunately for Cousins, he can't score enough TDs to warrant such a high number of INTs especially if he is to be considered elite.

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Cousins is not worth 2 first rounders, Washington won't let him hit free agency without a tag.

As much as all the back and forth is interesting, I don't see it becomming relevant unless something is going on that I've missed in regards to Cousins and the Skins.

I just read yesterday that Washington is seriously considering letting Cousins hit FA to set his true market value. If he is leaving next year anyway why set your team back another year? If Cousins really doesn't want to be there then you need to start looking for his replacement now. Cousins is due roughly 25 million this year and $35 next year. Washington waited to long to give him a contract and now they are going to pay the price. Nobody wants to work with a disgruntled employee, especially one who plays QB. Its not completely out of the question.

Odd. Not sure I see why Wash. should do this.

I could. Basically, Cousins got butthurt when Washington didn't want to give him a great long-term deal with the kind of guaranteed money that he wanted last year. That was why he got franchise tagged. Ever since, Cousins has been pis*ed with the organization, especially with Scot McCloughan and hence the "you like that" clip.

All along what Scot did was right because he knew full well that Cousins is really only average and has the tendency to fold in big games. And true enough, viola the Giants game. The Redskins were all ready to go to the playoffs, that was until Cousins crapped in his pants yet again and decided to throw not one, but two picks and destroyed all hopes for the Redskins fans.

So, now that Kyle Shanahan has become his own boss, being the new 9ers head coach, of course Cousins fancies his chance in being the new 9ers QB, is sad I know. Scot also knows that whereby a split is probably inevitable. So, why not let Cousins test the market and at least get something back for him especially if Washington could totally cream it say with 2 x 1st? They can then draft a top QB and sign a bridge QB this year and play the rookie come next year. To be honest, this will work out great in Washington's favour.

The party that is going to come off worse will be the 9ers if we end up signing Cousins. One, we will lose a truckload of high picks, two we will be setting a new NFL record by giving Cousins the biggest contract in history for an average QB.

Why would we do that when we could just sign him as a FA next year and not give up any picks? Next year Washington has to let him go anyways if he wont sign a long term contract. The franchise tag next year would pay Cousins roughly 35 million. A price to steep for anyone to pay.

No, I am not saying the 9ers should, be it this year or next year for that matter. All I am saying is it doesn't hurt for Scot McCloughan to try at least.

Who knows may be the 9ers won't be the only team interested in Cousins? As long as Washington can recoup something is better than nothing. And can every single team out there afford to wait a year until Cousins hit free agency? May be not?

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by English:

I'd like to read it. So, if memory serves that leaves them starting Colt McCoy in 2017?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/2/18/14650372/kirk-cousins-free-agency-franchise-tag-washington-2017-offseason

Here it is, Its a pretty good read.

Thanks, interesting. Have to say, Wash. have not handled it all that well. Had our management bricked themselves into this corner this place would have been frothing.

I can't blame anyone for feeling that way. I bet their fan forums are going ape s**t. Lol

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
There's other things besides the games they played and the production they produced. For instance, Cousins is accustomed to reading the field due to the offense he was he ran in college. Watson, while in the shot-gun and pistol a lot, was coached to just read 1 to 2 progressions and that's already be proven and discussed. And when you develop certain tendencies in college it's hard to shake them making your transition harder to the NFL. I just don't see Watson being that 4,000 yard passer the way Cousins is, why, because he has a tendency to take off if his first or second read is covered. IMO, I think Watson will be better off sitting for 2-3 years to give him time to get his mechanics and footwork down, not to mention learning a NFL offense. But Watson will most likely be picked in the 1st round on a possible s**tty team like the Browns and fans will want to see him start sooner rather than give him time to grow. And I feel if you start this kid too early it will kill his confidence and struggle to find a comfort zone - see Blaine Gabbert.

Great points. What it'll come down to is what it does for every college qb, can they develop. Mariota appears to have, Derek Carr has, many think Jimmy G has. Everyone has made it clear that the college spread offense is a huge hurdle to jump but guys have done it. There's a big risk in taking Watson that high but he's a serious gamer, not too unreasonable to think he can make the next step.

s**t two 4,000 plus yard seasons. 2015 had the 4th toughest schedule and this year had the 3rd toughest and looked like the best player on the field against a team loaded with first round defensive talent in the championship game. Spread offense or not, pretty damn impressive in my eyes and it means a lot.

Aside from Mariota (who seems to be making the transition), Carr and Garoppolo have a lot more poise in the pocket than to just take off with the ball. Yes it's not unreasonable to think Watson can transition to the Pro's but knowing the hype on him to start earlier than to sit and be groomed and his tendency to take off with the ball will make his transition a little bit harder IMO. Not to many Spread offense running type college QB's amount to anything more than a Youtube highlight in the NFL.

I will say this, if Watson does get into the right system, he may be a solid starter somewhere like the Browns. I think Hue Jackson could utilize his scrambling, but I just don't think he'll ever be as productive as Kirk Cousins, that's not who he is as a QB.

Originally posted by Rascal:

No, I am not saying the 9ers should, be it this year or next year for that matter. All I am saying is it doesn't hurt for Scot McCloughan to try at least.

Who knows may be the 9ers won't be the only team interested in Cousins? As long as Washington can recoup something is better than nothing. And can every single team out there afford to wait a year until Cousins hit free agency? May be not?

But thats a risk too. What if no teams bite? Then you are paying about 25 million to a guy who isn't even going to be with the team next year. Seems like a waste of 25 million to me. If he isn't part of the long term plan then what is the point in keeping him around?

Originally posted by Rascal:
Pardon me? 12 picks is not a lot? That also depends on how many TDs you throw. Sure, Drew Brees has 15 INTs, but guess how many TDs did he score? 37, bro!! That is a massive 12 TDs more than Cousins, just in case you haven't noticed!

The rest of the QBs you named all are pretty much in the pack. What IdahoNiner was trying to say is Cousins is elite which he obviously isn't.

You totally missed the point. I am not evaluating QBs purely based on INTs alone, it is the TD/INT ratio, in other words if you are trigger happy and pick prone, you better throw a ton of TDs. Get it? But, unfortunately for Cousins, he can't score enough TDs to warrant such a high number of INTs especially if he is to be considered elite.

You understand that your TD/INT ratio argument puts Kap in the top 5 in the league for QB's? If that's the case then we shouldn't move on from elite kap right?

I think you should reevaluate the way you see QB's by including more than just that td/int ratio. Try completion percentage to begin with.

This said he's a two year starter under 30 with his career in an upward trajectory and if we land him he'll get to play with the best OC in the league. He's a natural pocket passer who's getting better and has experience in the system that our new HC wants to install. On top of that he has the numbers especially when you consider the deficiencies of the Washington team he's had to work with and the strength of schedule he's had to play against.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Pardon me? 12 picks is not a lot? That also depends on how many TDs you throw. Sure, Drew Brees has 15 INTs, but guess how many TDs did he score? 37, bro!! That is a massive 12 TDs more than Cousins, just in case you haven't noticed!

The rest of the QBs you named all are pretty much in the pack. What IdahoNiner was trying to say is Cousins is elite which he obviously isn't.

You totally missed the point. I am not evaluating QBs purely based on INTs alone, it is the TD/INT ratio, in other words if you are trigger happy and pick prone, you better throw a ton of TDs. Get it? But, unfortunately for Cousins, he can't score enough TDs to warrant such a high number of INTs especially if he is to be considered elite.

You understand that your TD/INT ratio argument puts Kap in the top 5 in the league for QB's? If that's the case then we shouldn't move on from elite kap right?

I think you should reevaluate the way you see QB's by including more than just that td/int ratio. Try completion percentage to begin with.

This said he's a two year starter under 30 with his career in an upward trajectory and if we land him he'll get to play with the best OC in the league. He's a natural pocket passer who's getting better and has experience in the system that our new HC wants to install. On top of that he has the numbers especially when you consider the deficiencies of the Washington team he's had to work with and the strength of schedule he's had to play against.

I couldn't agree more jcs. Good post.

Originally posted by jcs:
You understand that your TD/INT ratio argument puts Kap in the top 5 in the league for QB's? If that's the case then we shouldn't move on from elite kap right?

I think you should reevaluate the way you see QB's by including more than just that td/int ratio. Try completion percentage to begin with.

This said he's a two year starter under 30 with his career in an upward trajectory and if we land him he'll get to play with the best OC in the league. He's a natural pocket passer who's getting better and has experience in the system that our new HC wants to install. On top of that he has the numbers especially when you consider the deficiencies of the Washington team he's had to work with and the strength of schedule he's had to play against.

Come on, please exercise some common sense. While Kap has a decent TD/INT ratio, he has only 16 TDs, that's 1 TD a game.