Former NY Jets HC Robert Saleh

Originally posted by jcs:
AA is an unproductive pass rusher and horrible against the run. He's going to come off the bench. I would rather see Blair there.

I wouldn't. AA has got way more power and this is what one needs at the strong side of the DL.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
I'd bring back Dorsey as a cheap option to play the run next to Buck and AA who I believe will be a solid strong side DE on run downs. SAM and Leo are the positions in question.

Dorsey is an excellent backup but he has not been healthy. I'd like to see them pick up a true NT or DT bull if they go 4/3. A guy who is 6'2" 350 would be about right. 4.4 40...

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jcs:
AA is an unproductive pass rusher and horrible against the run. He's going to come off the bench. I would rather see Blair there.

I wouldn't. AA has got way more power and this is what one needs at the strong side of the DL.

AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2.5 sacks

He was AWFUL at setting the edge and he gave up on too many plays last year. Blair is stronger physically and had 3 sacks last season as a backup and was actually productive in college unlike AA. I hope he beats him out.

Originally posted by communist:
I wouldn't. AA has got way more power and this is what one needs at the strong side of the DL.

AA managed 24 reps at 225...Blair with longer arms led the combine at his position at 32.

Originally posted by jcs:

2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2.5 sacks

He was AWFUL at setting the edge and he gave up on too many plays last year. Blair is stronger physically and had 3 sacks last season as a backup and was actually productive in college unlike AA. I hope he beats him out.

That stat is based off 700 snaps and a dislocated shoulder for 400 of them.

I'll take 4.5 sacks with less than a yrs worth of snaps for a 3-4 DE who's been injured and basically a rookie

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2.5 sacks

He was AWFUL at setting the edge and he gave up on too many plays last year. Blair is stronger physically and had 3 sacks last season as a backup and was actually productive in college unlike AA. I hope he beats him out.

Pass-rush productivity is not just measured by sacks, but also in pressures and QB hits. He was productive in that regard as a rookie in 2015.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/4/16/11442604/pff-grades-arik-armstead-second-highest-2015-first-round-pick

Armstead finished first in PFF's pass-rushing productivity stat among 3-4 defensive ends with 155 or more pass rushing snaps. He played a fairly limited amount of snaps compared to other defensive linemen, but he was productive in his time on the field.

Again, I concede that was in limited playing time as an interior pass rusher. But it does show pass rush ability when healthy.

I also mentioned he's got work to do as a run defender, but we already knew he wasn't a finished product coming out of college. He was drafted based on his traits, and is only 2 years in on a 5 year deal. Its worth developing him rather than discarding him so quickly, especially since his sophomore year was compromised trying to play through a serious shoulder injury.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
That stat is based off 700 snaps and a dislocated shoulder for 400 of them.

I'll take 4.5 sacks with less than a yrs worth of snaps for a 3-4 DE who's been injured and basically a rookie

Except he's not a rookie but a 3rd year vet next season. Get over the excuses he's been unproductive and has had difficulties getting snaps both from injury and a lack of skill.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by jcs:
AA is an unproductive pass rusher and horrible against the run. He's going to come off the bench. I would rather see Blair there.

I wouldn't. AA has got way more power and this is what one needs at the strong side of the DL.

AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

Agree. He's the type of DE/DT who can push the pocket back and rush the QB under control. What he lacks is the fast twitch of a true pass rusher. That's OK for a DL in the 3/4 or a DT in the 4/3. Buckner is much quicker and a natural pass rusher. I could see them playing next to each other and really wreaking havoc with AA at RDT and DB at RDE. Then they could have a true DT at LDT and Blair at LDE. That would be a very powerful DL that can control against the run and collapse the pocket from every spot.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Agree. He's the type of DE/DT who can push the pocket back and rush the QB under control. What he lacks is the fast twitch of a true pass rusher. That's OK for a DL in the 3/4 or a DT in the 4/3. Buckner is much quicker and a natural pass rusher. I could see them playing next to each other and really wreaking havoc with AA at RDT and DB at RDE. Then they could have a true DT at LDT and Blair at LDE. That would be a very powerful DL that can control against the run and collapse the pocket from every spot.

Yup. The way I see it likely playing out is that between DeFo and AA, one of them will be the 3-tech and one of them will be the strong-side end. In this scheme, I put more importance in the 3-tech, who is the premier interior player in that scheme. Therefore, I want DeFo there, because he's the superior player. At strong-side end we can have AA and I'm sure he'll compete with others for that spot.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2.5 sacks

He was AWFUL at setting the edge and he gave up on too many plays last year. Blair is stronger physically and had 3 sacks last season as a backup and was actually productive in college unlike AA. I hope he beats him out.

Pass-rush productivity is not just measured by sacks, but also in pressures and QB hits. He was productive in that regard as a rookie in 2015.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/4/16/11442604/pff-grades-arik-armstead-second-highest-2015-first-round-pick

Armstead finished first in PFF's pass-rushing productivity stat among 3-4 defensive ends with 155 or more pass rushing snaps. He played a fairly limited amount of snaps compared to other defensive linemen, but he was productive in his time on the field.

Again, I concede that was in limited playing time as an interior pass rusher. But it does show pass rush ability when healthy.

I also mentioned he's got work to do as a run defender, but we already knew he wasn't a finished product coming out of college. He was drafted based on his traits, and is only 2 years in on a 5 year deal. Its worth developing him rather than discarding him so quickly, especially since his sophomore year was compromised trying to play through a serious shoulder injury.

You are using PFF so I'll quote 2016 PFF AA was ranked 115 out of 117 of all Dlineman against the run, we all saw it play out this way last season too. He's no starter in this league if he can't play the run at all. This is after a season to learn the position.

Other rankings, 30th in the pass rush but an overall of 90th in the league.

Originally posted by jcs:
You are using PFF so I'll quote 2016 PFF AA was ranked 115 out of 117 of all Dlineman against the run, we all saw it play out this way last season too. He's no starter in this league if he can't play the run at all. This is after a season to learn the position.

Other rankings, 30th in the pass rush but an overall of 90th in the league.

Yes, I already mentioned he hasn't been a good run defender. I'm not arguing with you on that point lol. But he has the natural power and length to be an impact player in that regard. He's still very young, raw, and had a shoulder injury in 2016. I'm not closing the book on him just yet, but if you want to thats fine.

Guys with us switching to a 4-3/3-4 Seattle type defense I'd say Ohio St. safety Malik Hooker is in play at #2 overall. He's a Earl Thomas clone with more size. These type of safety's are very hard to find and take your defense from good to great. This guy ranges from sideline to sideline in coverage but has the ball skills of a wide receiver.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by jcs:
You are using PFF so I'll quote 2016 PFF AA was ranked 115 out of 117 of all Dlineman against the run, we all saw it play out this way last season too. He's no starter in this league if he can't play the run at all. This is after a season to learn the position.

Other rankings, 30th in the pass rush but an overall of 90th in the league.

Yes, I already mentioned he hasn't been a good run defender. I'm not arguing with you on that point lol. But he has the natural power and length to be an impact player in that regard. He's still very young, raw, and had a shoulder injury in 2016. I'm not closing the book on him just yet, but if you want to thats fine.

Hmm...I guess some people blamed Justin Smith for the SB loss as he was playing with one arm and didn't do much. Really, AA playing with one arm was really at a disadvantage...and Justin was a once in a lifetime player who did OK even with one arm...just not his dominating self. Even with one arm I noticed how often AA was double and triple teamed. I don't think PFF has that locked down.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

AA was a very productive pass rusher his rookie year, when he was healthy. This year the shoulder injury probably held him back, and its true he's got to refine his technique in defending the run. But I like him as a strong side end this scheme.

2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2.5 sacks

He was AWFUL at setting the edge and he gave up on too many plays last year. Blair is stronger physically and had 3 sacks last season as a backup and was actually productive in college unlike AA. I hope he beats him out.

Pass-rush productivity is not just measured by sacks, but also in pressures and QB hits. He was productive in that regard as a rookie in 2015.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/4/16/11442604/pff-grades-arik-armstead-second-highest-2015-first-round-pick

Armstead finished first in PFF's pass-rushing productivity stat among 3-4 defensive ends with 155 or more pass rushing snaps. He played a fairly limited amount of snaps compared to other defensive linemen, but he was productive in his time on the field.

Again, I concede that was in limited playing time as an interior pass rusher. But it does show pass rush ability when healthy.

I also mentioned he's got work to do as a run defender, but we already knew he wasn't a finished product coming out of college. He was drafted based on his traits, and is only 2 years in on a 5 year deal. Its worth developing him rather than discarding him so quickly, especially since his sophomore year was compromised trying to play through a serious shoulder injury.

You are using PFF so I'll quote 2016 PFF AA was ranked 115 out of 117 of all Dlineman against the run, we all saw it play out this way last season too. He's no starter in this league if he can't play the run at all. This is after a season to learn the position.

Other rankings, 30th in the pass rush but an overall of 90th in the league.

In their defense, hes about as productive as he was in college, or lack there of; an underproducing DL. Drafting with the draft and develop tag can go both ways, which they seem to forget. I wont say he is an absolute bust but hes been a severe disappointment thus far regardless of injury for where he was drafted and ahead of players like Malcom Brown, Eddie Goldman, and Marcus Peters. He may have been unstoppable in TC but this was going against the 2-14 offense.