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Former NY Jets HC Robert Saleh

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Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/02/2020-super-bowl-san-francisco-49ers-collapse-kyle-shanahan-robert-saleh?utm_source=49ersWebZone&utm_medium=dt&utm_campaign=affref

Hopefully Oden has some pull on varied coverages going forward. But if he's a Saleh guy, who knows...same school?

The 49ers' defensive game plan

So what was the 49ers' plan? It won't take long to explain, actually. On first down and second-and-short (under 7 yards to go), the 49ers essentially played two coverages: Quarters and Cover 3. And it wasn't difficult to figure out when they'd play which coverage. When Mahomes was in shotgun, they played Quarters; when he went under center, they played Cover 3.

Every time.

We're talking a 100% tendency for the entire game.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by thl408:
Good article. I can't believe the unwillingness to break from tendency. Especially in the 4Q when it's been three quarters of giving the offense the same defensive looks. I know Moseley got heat for that 3rd & 15, but I give more credit to the offensive play design.

Cover 3.. Every time. Has that even been done before in a Super Bowl where the defense played essentially the same alignment for 99% of the game?

Hold up. I just noticed an inaccuracy in the article.
From the article:
When Mahomes was in shotgun, they played Quarters; when he went under center, they played Cover 3.
Every time.
We're talking a 100% tendency for the entire game.
----
But on that 3rd & 15, KC was in shotgun and 49ers played Cover 3.

He also notes this too. LOL

I'm an idiot.
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

Woo does not approve.
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.
I just really hope he's more aggressive going forward. No more free releases on 3rd and 15 when you only rushing 4. You gotta help your talent at times
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 11, 2020 at 4:49 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.


This.

I noticed Mosely missed two critical assignments. One was when Kelce scored. At SB no one should be missing assignments especially in the final half of the last quarter.

The defense up until the last 11 minutes had done a good job keep Mahones pinned. But in the last quarter I could see him escaping his pocket more and more and that is when he is most dangerous. IF we kept him in the pocket and our secondaries stuck to their assignments it would have been a different outcome.

In my view the loss was more on the defense then the offense.
Originally posted by Goatie:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.


This.

I noticed Mosely missed two critical assignments. One was when Kelce scored. At SB no one should be missing assignments especially in the final half of the last quarter.

The defense up until the last 11 minutes had done a good job keep Mahones pinned. But in the last quarter I could see him escaping his pocket more and more and that is when he is most dangerous. IF we kept him in the pocket and our secondaries stuck to their assignments it would have been a different outcome.

In my view the loss was more on the defense then the offense.

Agreed. That's another Saleh issue...leaving a team's top players on our youngest players. We saw how Payton/Brees exposed Azeez Al-Shaair & Marcell Harris with Cook, and in this game, asking Moseley to cover Tyreek Hill for 40 yards with no S help and no jam at the LOS, T.Moore on Kelce, also 1on1 in the RZ (hello!), leaving Witherspoon out on an island after his obvious struggles when QB's don't even look to the lock-down side in Sherman, etc. Schematically, he needs to get his players in better positions and know when to help them...read them like Shanahan does with Garoppolo. When he's on, unleash him. If he's off, turn to the run game more until he gets going. The other team gets paid too so OC's targeting these players should be expected. And if your DL is naturally going to wear down d/t the lack of depth, that's when you need to change it up. Bring bltizes, drop more into coverage and force them to run which eats up the clock, etc.

Just a couple areas he needs to work on and he'll have a chance to be a top DC in this league.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Goatie:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.


This.

I noticed Mosely missed two critical assignments. One was when Kelce scored. At SB no one should be missing assignments especially in the final half of the last quarter.

The defense up until the last 11 minutes had done a good job keep Mahones pinned. But in the last quarter I could see him escaping his pocket more and more and that is when he is most dangerous. IF we kept him in the pocket and our secondaries stuck to their assignments it would have been a different outcome.

In my view the loss was more on the defense then the offense.

Agreed. That's another Saleh issue...leaving a team's top players on our youngest players. We saw how Payton/Brees exposed Azeez Al-Shaair & Marcell Harris with Cook, and in this game, asking Moseley to cover Tyreek Hill for 40 yards with no S help and no jam at the LOS, T.Moore on Kelce, also 1on1 in the RZ (hello!), leaving Witherspoon out on an island after his obvious struggles when QB's don't even look to the lock-down side in Sherman, etc. Schematically, he needs to get his players in better positions and know when to help them...read them like Shanahan does with Garoppolo. When he's on, unleash him. If he's off, turn to the run game more until he gets going. The other team gets paid too so OC's targeting these players should be expected. And if your DL is naturally going to wear down d/t the lack of depth, that's when you need to change it up. Bring bltizes, drop more into coverage and force them to run which eats up the clock, etc.

Just a couple areas he needs to work on and he'll have a chance to be a top DC in this league.


I didn't think running 1 safety on some of those plays in final quarter was the wisest thing to do given the history with our last minute D struggles.
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

read please

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/02/2020-super-bowl-san-francisco-49ers-collapse-kyle-shanahan-robert-saleh?utm_source=49ersWebZone&utm_medium=dt&utm_campaign=affref
Originally posted by NCommand:
The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.

agreed and it's not like Mahomes was throwing no look passes or something stupid. Dude was slinging it to his first progression. Reid KNEW what are coverages would be and took advantage of it. Guys were wide open. That's on the DC not seeing this and adjusting.

There's enough blame to go around but film doesn't lie. I like Saleh but hopefully we can start disguising more things and be less predicable.
Originally posted by NCommand:
The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.

The team blitzed on one play and that's the one where Sherman got roasted by Watkins. It's just a draw back of the cover 3. You got larger corners who can struggle vs speed. You want to be aggressive and blitz and that will be exposed even more. We may just be looking at the weakness of this scheme because it's now given up 3 4th quarter 10 point leads in the SB.

End of the day though you score 20 vs KC and you'll lose every time. I put a lot more blame on the o.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Feb 11, 2020 at 7:13 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.

20 points isn't going to win many Super Bowls.
The 49ers held them longer than any other team in the playoffs and the last TD was on the offense after the offense turned over the ball on the 49ers 40.
24 pts allowed is good enough most Super Bowls.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by socal1632:
There's no shame in losing to Patrick Mahomes and Andry Reid. Robert Saleh fell victim to a duo that has left many defenses in its wake. But the 49ers defense deserved more from its coach. Saleh had the league's deepest and most talented defense at his disposal. He had two weeks to put together a game plan. And this is what he came up with? Mahomes and Reid do not need any extra help to make an opposing defense look silly, but Saleh gave it to them anyway.
This pretty much spells it out. His mind is too rigid and creative enough in real time. Happy to have him back, continuity. He'll grow from this, smart guy.

Saleh's simple approach to play-calling had served the 49ers well all season. With a stacked group of pass rushers, an athletic linebacker corps and a smart secondary, he had more than enough talent to just line up and beat opposing offenses even if they knew what was coming. Against Andy Reid and this offense, which was just as talented, that was a mistake. A far bigger mistake than any Shanahan made that night in Miami.

I've been one of his worst critics and I still wouldn't care if he would've taken the Michigan job or whatever it was. But you cant blame that on the defense or Saleh. To hold that offense to 10 points through 3 QTs is very impressive. There have been plenty of stats posted showing how that was by far their worst 3 QTs offensively the whole year.

You have kind of a lead, especially after that pick with 9 min left, you gotta put them away. The defense more than did its job. You just can't expect to beat the Chiefs when you only score 20 points, idc what defense or era it is, that Chiefs team is putting up more than 10 points on anyone.

The defense gave up 21 points in 5 minutes...a trend we've seen, what, 5-6 times this year? Granted, the offense collapsed just as much when it mattered most. In fact it took a perfect collapse all around unfortunately.

But these late 4Q collapses after Saleh goes to his soft shell to keep everything in front and eat up clock backfires too often. The opponents not only score but score very quickly and take full momentum from there. This is clearly something he needs to figure out schematically and philisophically even WHEN he has top notch personnel out there.

20 points isn't going to win many Super Bowls.
The 49ers held them longer than any other team in the playoffs and the last TD was on the offense after the offense turned over the ball on the 49ers 40.
24 pts allowed is good enough most Super Bowls.

This isn't the offense thread, though. And I agree with you about the offense too.
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