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Former NY Jets HC Robert Saleh

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May 31, 2020 at 11:05 AM
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
It's like a pendulum right? The rules encourage pass-happy game plans, so defenses stock up on 220 lb line backers and 210 pound safety's. Then, teams start taking advantage of all the pipsqueaks in the back seven by installing road grading formations with 2ble te's, H backs, full backs in the 240+ range.

Yep.
May 31, 2020 at 2:38 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Interesting.


Why not? Nobody runs anymore (shhhhh).

This makes more sense than trying to make base personnel work in situations that call for nickel. On the flip side, this is why Kyle likes to use his fullback so much - to force teams to play that third LB.

It certainly does. And since Woods is gone, any thoughts on how the coverage schemes might look? How much has Saleh evolved in that area? How much influence will Woods' replacement have?

I'm sure you've seen me post about how players said that Woods was not heavily involved in scheme last season and was more involved with technique. Sherman was on video saying so. That makes me think it's Saleh that made the effort to diversify their coverages in 2019. I sure hope they continue with mixing up their single high vs two high looks and not go back to 2017/18 when they were playing so much single high.

No idea what kind of ideas the new DB coach Tony Odin will bring in. If he had a big hand in Darius Slay's development, does that mean the 49ers play more man compared to previous years? I think that's what DSlay is more known for.

Oh snap...how did I miss this? I just assumed Woods background in 2 deep was brought in to mesh with cover 3 because Kyle wanted the defense to expand/evolve...got too predictable. Thanks for that insight.

That's very encouraging then!

I think you're right. It wouldn't surprise me to see more man. I know that's something we'd all like to see more of.

That'll have to be pick and choose with Sherman.

Here's the post to the video. It's from SB week. I think it's Maiocco that asked about what Woods brought to the defense.

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl/191914-joe-woods-passing-game-coordinator-browns/page25/#post364

Wasn't it also said after the SB by Reid and mahommes they knew exactly what coverage the 49ers were in during the 2nd 1/2 of the SB & saleh wasn't mixing thing up or disguising coverage?

I'm Asking someone like you who knows coverages and schemes etc best.

If that's true, hopefully Saleh "learned" from the SB even though that's a tough time for a learning lesson.
May 31, 2020 at 6:03 PM
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by Hopper:
Zone coverage in general is more effective against mobile QB's.

Personally I don't think *any* defense is effective against mobile QB's (like a Mahomes, like a Steve Young -- for example) Guys like Kaepernick can't pass and hence you can load up on the run, zone blitz, whatever, and it will most likely stop guys like him.
Jul 9, 2020 at 10:43 AM
One of the reasons we saw more T.Moore at the end of 4Q and through the playoffs.

Jul 9, 2020 at 10:59 AM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,086
Wow more dime than base league wide. Very interesting. With more of these college QBs coming out from spread offenses, this trend of putting 6 DBs on the field will probably continue. Playing the ARI Air Raid twice a year will require the 49ers to find 6 competent DBs to field.
Jul 9, 2020 at 11:46 AM
Originally posted by thl408:
Wow more dime than base league wide. Very interesting. With more of these college QBs coming out from spread offenses, this trend of putting 6 DBs on the field will probably continue. Playing the ARI Air Raid twice a year will require the 49ers to find 6 competent DBs to field.

I knew your ears would perk up!

I found it fascinating.
Jul 9, 2020 at 12:34 PM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,086
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Wow more dime than base league wide. Very interesting. With more of these college QBs coming out from spread offenses, this trend of putting 6 DBs on the field will probably continue. Playing the ARI Air Raid twice a year will require the 49ers to find 6 competent DBs to field.

I knew your ears would perk up!

I found it fascinating.

I wish they broke that down further to show how often did DCs counter 11 personnel (3WRs) with dime (6 DBs). It's normal to use nickel (5 DBs) vs 11 personnel, but how often were DCs 'skipping' nickel and going straight to dime to counter 11 personnel. That would help indicate how DCs are now adjusting.
Jul 9, 2020 at 1:25 PM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Wow more dime than base league wide. Very interesting. With more of these college QBs coming out from spread offenses, this trend of putting 6 DBs on the field will probably continue. Playing the ARI Air Raid twice a year will require the 49ers to find 6 competent DBs to field.

I knew your ears would perk up!

I found it fascinating.

I wish they broke that down further to show how often did DCs counter 11 personnel (3WRs) with dime (6 DBs). It's normal to use nickel (5 DBs) vs 11 personnel, but how often were DCs 'skipping' nickel and going straight to dime to counter 11 personnel. That would help indicate how DCs are now adjusting.

Nice point. We might be getting back to the big (AA, Jones, Kinlaw, Bosa) nickel days. Haha.
Jul 15, 2020 at 9:28 AM
Jul 15, 2020 at 9:33 AM
Originally posted by NCommand:

What's crazy is that, outside of Warner, those aren't even the core, elite guys on D. Speaks volumes to how good and well coached this defense is
Jul 15, 2020 at 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by NCommand:

What's crazy is that, outside of Warner, those aren't even the core, elite guys on D. Speaks volumes to how good and well coached this defense is

Yeah, I thought the communication and low number of blown coverages took a huge leap last year as did the added focus on turnovers.
Jul 21, 2020 at 10:30 AM
Jul 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM
Originally posted by NCommand:

I expect big things from Moore, especially with more 3 S sets
[ Edited by Hoovtrain on Jul 21, 2020 at 10:55 AM ]
Jul 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,086
Originally posted by NCommand:

Of course he'd have to earn the playing time, but giving Moore a role in certain packages would allow him to get some consistent playing time during the season to groom him for a bigger role in 2021. However, if Saleh uses more big nickel to match up against opposing team's base offense (2 WRs), then that means one of Kwon or Greenlaw gets less playing time. Perhaps that doesn't matter if Greenlaw decides to sit out the 2020 season (pandemic). Then there's all the more reason to field Big Nickel more often instead of putting Al Shazaam or Nachoez at SAM. Maybe have Tartt come down into the box and have Ward/Moore as the deep safeties.
Jul 21, 2020 at 11:24 AM
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:

Of course he'd have to earn the playing time, but giving Moore a role in certain packages would allow him to get some consistent playing time during the season to groom him for a bigger role in 2021. However, if Saleh uses more big nickel to match up against opposing team's base offense (2 WRs), then that means one of Kwon or Greenlaw gets less playing time. Perhaps that doesn't matter if Greenlaw decides to sit out the 2020 season (pandemic). Then there's all the more reason to field Big Nickel more often instead of putting Al Shazaam or Nachoez at SAM. Maybe have Tartt come down into the box and have Ward/Moore as the deep safeties.

Thl, there was a time where I swore I'd never say these words...ever.

It's 2020 so here goes:

"I'm excited about the big nickel."
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