The Return of 49er DC Robert Saleh

Originally posted by NCommand:
Thl, there was a time where I swore I'd never say these words...ever.

It's 2020 so here goes:

"I'm excited about the big nickel."

lol. If Greenlaw opts out of 2020, then the decision may come down to, play Moore or Al Shaair/Nzocha to match up with 2WR sets. The 49ers move to wide9 to help the pass rush suggests that they may consider further helping the pass defense by going to big nickel. I like Tartt close to the line to matchup with TEs and RBs. Maybe Big Nickel would be gameplan specific against teams that don't have a great running game.

The original plan for Moore was to have him play CB. That seems to be scrapped. If there are no subpackages for him to have a role in, then it seems like a wasted 3rd rounder. The SBowl gameplan showed that the staff had confidence in Moore to play key snaps on the biggest stage. I was surprised by that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Is Tarvarius Moore in line for a bigger role this upcoming season as the #49ers employ more big-nickel packages? (@peterpanacy) https://t.co/n7Kl9DodV6

— Niner Noise (@SFNinerNoise) July 21, 2020

Of course he'd have to earn the playing time, but giving Moore a role in certain packages would allow him to get some consistent playing time during the season to groom him for a bigger role in 2021. However, if Saleh uses more big nickel to match up against opposing team's base offense (2 WRs), then that means one of Kwon or Greenlaw gets less playing time. Perhaps that doesn't matter if Greenlaw decides to sit out the 2020 season (pandemic). Then there's all the more reason to field Big Nickel more often instead of putting Al Shazaam or Nachoez at SAM. Maybe have Tartt come down into the box and have Ward/Moore as the deep safeties.

Thl, there was a time where I swore I'd never say these words...ever.

It's 2020 so here goes:

"I'm excited about the big nickel."

When you have a front 4 that can generate a s**t ton of pressure, I think it's a no brainer

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

When you have a front 4 that can generate a s**t ton of pressure, I think it's a no brainer

I do too. Previously in this thread I posted on the league move to more dime to counter the passing league. This would make a ton of sense and I thought the confidence in playing Moore more in 4Q and esp. through the playoffs (Superbowl specifically) demonstrated great confidence in a young Moore while at the same time not even suiting up a young Pettis. That tells me he's done what they've asked of him to play him in such a huge moment, so I'd expect a ton more of that this year.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Cover 3.. Every time. Has that even been done before in a Super Bowl where the defense played essentially the same alignment for 99% of the game?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by socal1632:

This loss is on the O. Our D played brilliantly. Should have been an easy win. 20 points against that D is atrocious. We'll never beat KC with this oline. Jimmy's mechanical flaws and tunnel vision were on great display under duress.

LOL. So we're just going to ignore the 21 points given up in 5 minutes?

By this logic, the offense played great for 3.5 quarters too. They were up by 2 scores with only 7 minutes to go. Jimmy was 14 for 17 at that point and we were averaging 6.9 yards a rush.

...both epically collapsed in the heat of the moment. Period.

Missed this 10 days ago. "Both epically collapsed in the heat of the moment".

Well, sort of. Our O had been doing fine right up until the time that Jimmy got helmet to helmeted (which of course wasn't called), and sustained a concussion. After that his play fell off as did his vision and accuracy. I believe that was a player inspired helmet job, but who knows, it could have been their DC. I really doubt Andy Reid would have done that...a DC? Well, i don't know..probably the player tho.

After watching the last 7 mins a number of times, i bet on the overthrow, jimmy saw 1 WR but he was in 3 different places. If you have any doubts, just rewatch the JG post game. Interview. It was with a man who had been concussed.

And his QB play after that concussion was completely different than his previous 53 mins. IDK if kyle knew he was concussed or not. But kyle doesn't miss much. What was he going to do? Bring in Mullie? Or go with his starter who had the hot hand? I think he chose the latter, but we'll never know.

" our QB epically collapsed..."

If you watch the helmet to helmet again, one tell tale sign is obvious. The immediate hands to his helmet, as if trying to take away the brain pain. Look at all jimmy's film from last 3 yrs...and you will never see him grab his helmet like that, even after some amazing blows. Because it never happened before.

Now go back to utube and call up some NFL concussion blows. Unless the QB is knocked out cold, the one thing obvious is the immediate grabbing of the helmet in a guy who got concussed and had to come out where he was dingy...esp in college games you can find it.

So yeah , our QB play epically collapsed, beginning immediately after our QB was speared in the head by a KC helmet. And i'll add...intentionally...altho that part is conjecture.
That is the only part i am not certain of. The rest? Yeah, I'm certain, and that is after watching this helmet to helmet and last 7 mins for over a month. That includes a lot of concussion comparisons also.

Originally posted by NCommand:

The #Seahawks loved base defense, the #Packers loved dime. Let's look at some defensive personnel trends from 2019.

— Football Outsiders (@fboutsiders) July 22, 2020

Thanks for the link. Now I get why SEA liked their base defense so much, even using it to match up against 3 WRs - it was because their nickel package was terrible. I'll re-read the article, lots of numbers.

I thought the really interesting chart from that FO article is the "Defensive Personnel DVOA Breakdown, 2019". What caught my eye is the "unconventional" matchups (nickel vs 2WRs, dime vs 3WRs) - basically having an extra DB on the field compared to how many WRs are on the field. I wish they showed this for individual teams and not just for the entire league.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

The #Seahawks loved base defense, the #Packers loved dime. Let's look at some defensive personnel trends from 2019. https://t.co/fK9SfyCgo2

— Football Outsiders (@fboutsiders) July 22, 2020

Thanks for the link. Now I get why SEA liked their base defense so much, even using it to match up against 3 WRs - it was because their nickel package was terrible. I'll re-read the article, lots of numbers.

N/p. Looks like we're all base (28%) or nickel (70%)...dime is (1%).

This is why Ford needs to give us 2 of 3 snaps if he can.

Originally posted by NCommand:
N/p. Looks like we're all base (28%) or nickel (70%)...dime is (1%).

This is why Ford needs to give us 2 of 3 snaps if he can.

I touched on this in the post before yours. What would be interesting to see is how Saleh used his nickel. How often did he go unconventional with his personnel matchups - using nickel to defend 2WRs, or base to defend 3WRs. That could give us a glimpse to how willing he'd use Big Nickel to defend 2WRs.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

N/p. Looks like we're all base (28%) or nickel (70%)...dime is (1%).

This is why Ford needs to give us 2 of 3 snaps if he can.

I touched on this in the post before yours. What would be interesting to see is how Saleh used his nickel. How often did he go unconventional with his personnel matchups - using nickel to defend 2WRs, or base to defend 3WRs. That could give us a glimpse to how willing he'd use Big Nickel to defend 2WRs.

Good points! I was particularly surprised by the dime. Could we see an increase this year if say, Verrett is healthy and we know they have confidence in Moore too...plus an extra year together with Moseley, Sherm, Tartt and Ward. Time to expand?

Originally posted by NCommand:

The #Seahawks loved base defense, the #Packers loved dime. Let's look at some defensive personnel trends from 2019. https://t.co/fK9SfyCgo2

— Football Outsiders (@fboutsiders) July 22, 2020

Finally came out with the 2019 numbers! nice gonna throw this in my twitter bookmarks

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Finally came out with the 2019 numbers! nice gonna throw this in my twitter bookmarks

Also interesting is how much these teams used dime last year:

GB - 51%
LAR - 42%
NE - 41%
BAL - 41%
KC - 34%
DET - 34%

Is this that trend the article alluded to earlier of a shift to more and more extra DB's to combat the passing league?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Also interesting is how much these teams used dime last year:

GB - 51%
LAR - 42%
NE - 41%
BAL - 41%
KC - 34%
DET - 34%

Is this that trend the article alluded to earlier of a shift to more and more extra DB's to combat the passing league?

Seems like it. I think the takeaway, league wise, is that some defenses are starting to use Dime in situations that normally call for nickel - 3rd & 7 so offense fields 3 WRs, normally a Nickel situation, defense skips Nickel and goes Dime. I don't think those defenses listed above are seeing the amount of 4WR sets as their Dime usage suggests. Three of the top Dime using teams have experienced DCs (Pettine, Wade Phillips, Hoodie)

Interesting that SF only uses Dime 1% of the time while playing ARI twice (ARI likes using 4WRs).

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Also interesting is how much these teams used dime last year:

GB - 51%
LAR - 42%
NE - 41%
BAL - 41%
KC - 34%
DET - 34%

Is this that trend the article alluded to earlier of a shift to more and more extra DB's to combat the passing league?

Seems like it. I think the takeaway, league wise, is that some defenses are starting to use Dime in situations that normally call for nickel - 3rd & 7 so offense fields 3 WRs, normally a Nickel situation, defense skips Nickel and goes Dime. I don't think those defenses listed above are seeing the amount of 4WR sets as their Dime usage suggests. Three of the top Dime using teams have experienced DCs (Pettine, Wade Phillips, Hoodie)

Interesting that SF only uses Dime 1% of the time while playing ARI twice (ARI likes using 4WRs).

That was EXACTLY my thought. When you see Hoodie and his defensive protege tops on that list, my ears perked up.

GB kind of had a similar thing to us as having two great ER's so if you can count on pressure, why not add more DB's and make it extra hard for QB's?

I would imagine it gives a DC more coverage options too?