WR Marquise "Flash" Goodwin (traded to PHI)

WE signed the guy to go deep and and he got deep on the left side of the bench...

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Goatie:
It is unfair to use logic and evidence to demonstrate the truth to a doubting Thomas.

I'm not saying that's the way they throw it, I'm saying it doesn't happen a lot. I found a website called Grantland where they did an actual study of where the passes are thrown and how often they are completed.

There were only 175 passes all year by the entire league where the receiver was 40 yards or more downfield. Only 47 were completed. That's for the entire league. The completion % was 27.9 for 20+ yards to the left sideline, 38% down the middle at 20+ and 30.6 for the right side.

Under 20 yards was above 50% and under 10 yards was close to 70% across the board.
Teams only threw the ball beyond 20 yards 3.6% to the left, 1% down the middle and 4.2% to the right

These numbers can vary from year to year but it doesn't change that much There's a clear reason why most teams use the shorter passing game. With about a one in three chance of completion and a higher INT rate it's too risky in most situations. Thebig bombs make the highlights but the shorter game is more reliable.

I like speed as much as anyone but I still want a good receiver over a guy that wins the underwear Olympics. Now if he's as good as Jerry Rice or Larry Fitzgerald and runs 4.28 then that's something a different story. Problem is I haven't seen a guy like that. Unless you have a lot of quality receivers and room under the cap, most teams can't afford a high priced decoy to stretch the field.

CatchMaster, I was responding to this particular comment you made above:

"It takes a receiver close to 5 seconds to get 45-50 yards downfield. If JG only has 3 or 4 seconds tops then it makes it kind of hard to throw that deep."

I was just saying that a WR does not need to get 45-50 yards downfield before the QB lets the pass go because a QB will release the ball before the WR is that deep. You are correct that deep bombs do not happen often in a game.

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

It's a copycat league and a team with express speed at WR just won the SB.

Someone will bite.

I think the QB is the main reason it worked, hard to copy the best QB in the league right now

For me it was the greatest Oline performance ever in a Super Bowl, not one holding call the whole game against the leagues best pass rush. AMAZING.

Give me a 6th rnd pick. Call it a day.

I still think we should go with Goodwin and let Sanders walk.

i wanna see which MORANIC team will trade for MARQUIS " A TRAIN " GOODWIN !!!

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

It's a copycat league and a team with express speed at WR just won the SB.

Someone will bite.

I think the QB is the main reason it worked, hard to copy the best QB in the league right now

Maybe, maybe not, it's not like We've seen Mahomes play without speedy receivers.

There are a lot of GM's who will acknowledge Mahomes is a great QB, but "wouldn't trade their QB for anyone" and could try to add some speed to further open things up.

Even teams like the Bengals, Dolphins etc might look to add some speed on a friendly deal so they can buy some time for WR's to develop or focus more heavily on protecting their shiny new drafted QB's.

Goodwin is on a decent deal, has proven speed, and could provide a great short term option for a lot of teams.

Someone's going to bite. It might only be a 6th-7th, but someone will see the upside.

Originally posted by mayo49:

I still think we should go with Goodwin and let Sanders walk.

Why choose the more one dimensional guy who's always been an inferior player to Sanders lol. And I like Goodwin.

Edit: I get the point, he's cheaper, younger and faster. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Goodwin but you can see why they'd explore moving him. We're short on picks and money and we've got to keep restocking young talent.

Edit 2: also, Goodwin, if kept, has probably already shown his ceiling: a useful, at times dangerous, but ultimately complementary piece of an offense.... a WR we draft, could well prove to be much more than that: more diverse, well rounded skill set, equally dangerous, better hands, higher ceiling, etc

Something tells me the return will be better than I expect. I'd be happy with a 6th

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Goatie:

It is unfair to use logic and evidence to demonstrate the truth to a doubting Thomas.

I'm not saying that's the way they throw it, I'm saying it doesn't happen a lot. I found a website called Grantland where they did an actual study of where the passes are thrown and how often they are completed.

There were only 175 passes all year by the entire league where the receiver was 40 yards or more downfield. Only 47 were completed. That's for the entire league. The completion % was 27.9 for 20+ yards to the left sideline, 38% down the middle at 20+ and 30.6 for the right side.

Under 20 yards was above 50% and under 10 yards was close to 70% across the board.
Teams only threw the ball beyond 20 yards 3.6% to the left, 1% down the middle and 4.2% to the right

These numbers can vary from year to year but it doesn't change that much There's a clear reason why most teams use the shorter passing game. With about a one in three chance of completion and a higher INT rate it's too risky in most situations. Thebig bombs make the highlights but the shorter game is more reliable.

I like speed as much as anyone but I still want a good receiver over a guy that wins the underwear Olympics. Now if he's as good as Jerry Rice or Larry Fitzgerald and runs 4.28 then that's something a different story. Problem is I haven't seen a guy like that. Unless you have a lot of quality receivers and room under the cap, most teams can't afford a high priced decoy to stretch the field.

CatchMaster, I was responding to this particular comment you made above:

"It takes a receiver close to 5 seconds to get 45-50 yards downfield. If JG only has 3 or 4 seconds tops then it makes it kind of hard to throw that deep."

I was just saying that a WR does not need to get 45-50 yards downfield before the QB lets the pass go because a QB will release the ball before the WR is that deep. You are correct that deep bombs do not happen often in a game.

And it's not just about throwing the ball deep. Defenses need to respect when you do have speed regardless if they throw it deep every other play.

It opens up the field more.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
And it's not just about throwing the ball deep. Defenses need to respect when you do have speed regardless if they throw it deep every other play.

It opens up the field more.

Defenses have to respect any receiver that runs a deep pattern. Whether he runs a 4.2 or 4.5 the back or backs still need to cover him. Good receivers often get double coverage no matter how fast they are. The real issue here is not how fast our receivers are because even when Goodwin was healthy we weren't throwing deep a lot. It's more on Kyle and the types of plays he calls. When Goodwin had his best season in 2017, most of that was with Beathard at QB and he has the best arm on the team. Not the most accurate but for shear arm strength he's our best. We threw deep more because we had few other options at receiver and Kyle really hadn't installed his offense yet. They were still evaluating players and trying to decide who to keep. If we keep Goodwin and he can stay healthy and contribute I'm okay with that. I would prefer a bigger receiver that can still get downfield and fight for the ball when there's tight coverage.

Goodwin and a 6th for a 4th? Who says no?

Originally posted by midrdan:
Goodwin and a 6th for a 4th? Who says no?

Its a good deal.

or

Goodwin and a 5th for a 3th from the Titans. I had read in the mock trade rumors.

Originally posted by Ninersmania:

Originally posted by midrdan:

Goodwin and a 6th for a 4th? Who says no?

Its a good deal.

or

Goodwin and a 5th for a 3th from the Titans. I had read in the mock trade rumors.

Did you just create a new number?

Originally posted by 91til:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I still think we should go with Goodwin and let Sanders walk.

Why choose the more one dimensional guy who's always been an inferior player to Sanders lol. And I like Goodwin.

Edit: I get the point, he's cheaper, younger and faster. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Goodwin but you can see why they'd explore moving him. We're short on picks and money and we've got to keep restocking young talent.

Edit 2: also, Goodwin, if kept, has probably already shown his ceiling: a useful, at times dangerous, but ultimately complementary piece of an offense.... a WR we draft, could well prove to be much more than that: more diverse, well rounded skill set, equally dangerous, better hands, higher ceiling, etc

I just like Goodwin's overall game over Sanders - who's lost his speed because of his torn Achilles.