WR Marquise "Flash" Goodwin (traded to PHI)

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
The personal issue may have been a factor but lot's of people have problems. Thomas had the issue with his sister. I remember Favre going out and playing a game the the day after his dad passed away. People deal with this stuff in different ways but professionals usually find a way to put it behind them and continue their job. It may sound cold but team members and coaches look at how guys handle that stuff. Publicly they will support them but inside they may be thinking the guy isn't tough enough.

Lynch and Kyle seem like guys who really care about their players. Unfortunately this is a production based business. I feel for guys like Solomon and Goodwin. I lost my only sibling unexpectedly a week before Solomon lost his. This is the hard part of sports. Especially ones with a salary cap.

You have a limited cap and a roster restriction. If someone isn't being productive for whatever reason then your really on a tight leash for how long you can wait and look beyond the other stuff. It sucks but it's the unfortunate part about professional sports. My guess is the same as it has been for months and that's Goodwin will not be a niner come September.

I agree that Kyle and Lynch seem like they care about the players and maybe they do. We only have their public face to go on. Like you said it is a performance based business. The sympathy can only go so far. Sooner or later you have to get on the field. The players understand this and if Goodwin can't get out there and contribute then he's gone. They recently had a baby so that might help but I really don't think he's that good. His one good season was when the team was terrible and they had few options other than let Beathard throw deep. He has way too high of a drop rate.

Shanalynch care about the players as people, but they're not shy about letting them know it's a performance based business. Lynch especially has emphasized this since he's been here, pointing to his experience of leaving the Broncos when a player. This is what allowed them to demote Bowman in mid-2017, then seek to accommodate a trade for him, then ultimately cut him. They do what's best for the team, they let players know that they will be honest with them to a fault, and they ultimately make decisions that back that up. Players that they move on from will know that they are being treated fairly even if they disagree with them, and players that are being told they are doing well can be assured that it's not just smoke being blown their way. In the long run a player like Goodwin will have a positive look at being with the 49ers under Shanalynch because they were always honest with him and professional, which will only reinforce with Goodwin that any care they had about him as a person was also wholly genuine.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Defenses have to respect any receiver that runs a deep pattern. Whether he runs a 4.2 or 4.5 the back or backs still need to cover him. Good receivers often get double coverage no matter how fast they are. The real issue here is not how fast our receivers are because even when Goodwin was healthy we weren't throwing deep a lot. It's more on Kyle and the types of plays he calls. When Goodwin had his best season in 2017, most of that was with Beathard at QB and he has the best arm on the team. Not the most accurate but for shear arm strength he's our best. We threw deep more because we had few other options at receiver and Kyle really hadn't installed his offense yet. They were still evaluating players and trying to decide who to keep. If we keep Goodwin and he can stay healthy and contribute I'm okay with that. I would prefer a bigger receiver that can still get downfield and fight for the ball when there's tight coverage.

Ahhh who do you think a team respects deep more.... a guy with Hill's speed OR a guy with Michael Thomas' speed? speed absolutely plays a factor in how a secondary covers.

AGAIN for the 10th time it's not a matter of how much you throw it deep, it's a matter of that speed dictating safety deployment on the boundary. Being explosive as soon as you catch the ball leads to YAC and turning a 4 yard slat into a explosive play downfield. You CAN NOT just leave a CB one on one with a guy like Goodwin. That DB will get toasted on a 9-route. speed spreads the field out and allows guys like Kittle/Deebo to run wild in the middle of the field. It's a major reason as to why Kyle has always had a burner.

Yes, it's not necessarily about having a deep threat to throw to. Speed helps open things up underneath which is where we know the 49ers like to attack. Here are a couple examples of Goodwin not getting the ball, but was helpful in getting Kittle the ball.
vs Cover 3 using a basic high-low route concept. Goodwin runs vertical to clear the area. What he indirectly does is draw attention from the middle blue safety.


A slower WR might be at the red star and wouldn't earn as much room as Goodwin does.


The slight step towards Goodwin's direction prevents the blue safety from getting over in time to better contest the catch, although he was darn close to breaking it up. Just shows that every little misstep matters.


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On this play, the blue CB is playing the flat (Tampa2). Since blue CB is lined up across from a speed treat, Goodwin, he turns and runs with Goodwin for a bit to help out the safety.


Notice the CB at the top of the screen jams Deebo, but doesn't turn and run with him whereas the CB at the bottom turns and runs with Goodwin for a few steps, enough to give Jimmy a clear read that the flat is vacated. It's not that a 4.5 guy can't do these types of clearing routes, it's just that a 4.3 guy can do it quicker.

Originally posted by thl408:
Yes, it's not necessarily about having a deep threat to throw to. Speed helps open things up underneath which is where we know the 49ers like to attack. Here are a couple examples of Goodwin not getting the ball, but was helpful in getting Kittle the ball.
vs Cover 3 using a basic high-low route concept. Goodwin runs vertical to clear the area. What he indirectly does is draw attention from the middle blue safety.


A slower WR might be at the red star and wouldn't earn as much room as Goodwin does.


The slight step towards Goodwin's direction prevents the blue safety from getting over in time to better contest the catch, although he was darn close to breaking it up. Just shows that every little misstep matters.


--------------
On this play, the blue CB is playing the flat (Tampa2). Since blue CB is lined up across from a speed treat, Goodwin, he turns and runs with Goodwin for a bit to help out the safety.


Notice the CB at the top of the screen jams Deebo, but doesn't turn and run with him whereas the CB at the bottom turns and runs with Goodwin for a few steps, enough to give Jimmy a clear read that the flat is vacated. It's not that a 4.5 guy can't do these types of clearing routes, it's just that a 4.3 guy can do it quicker.

I understand the concept of stretching the field to open things up underneath and it sounds good. In actual practice it doesn't really happen. Whether a guy runs 4.27 or 4.45, if you send him on a deep pattern he still has to be covered. The faster guy may beat the coverage more often but even that isn't always the case. Goodwin is one of the faster guys in the league and he's had 2 pass plays of 80 yards and two of 60 in his entire career. He barely played this season and we still had no trouble getting guys open underneath and then getting a lot of YAC. My point is any receiver can be used on a deep pattern to open the middle of the field if it becomes necessary. The way Kyle schemes receivers open it isn't needed very often.

I went to a website that shows where every pass was thrown in each game. You can look it up for every QB. Jimmy rarely threw deeper than about 20 -23 yards. By far most of his throws are in the 10-15 yrd range. He had several games where he didn't throw one pass longer than 25 yards and very few where he actually went 40+. What surprised me was that even Wilson and Mahomes didn't throw really deep very often. They were more successful when they did which is probably why we think they throw deep a lot.

Bottom line is the long bomb isn't extinct but it's not a big part of the NFL these days. Teams are more likely to use it only when forced into it because they know throws under 20 yards are far more efficient. The deeper throws also can be picked off easier because of all the time the ball is in the air. In the end, you can send just about any receiver deep and he will drag a defender with him. The difference between 4.27 and 4.45 looks like a lot but on the field it isn't that much. Some of those 4.45 guys might be nearly as fast as the 4.27 guy on the field. In either case they both need to be covered. Most teams are going to put their best DB on the other teams best receiver no matter how fast he is.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I understand the concept of stretching the field to open things up underneath and it sounds good. In actual practice it doesn't really happen. Whether a guy runs 4.25 or 4.55, if you send him on a deep pattern he still has to be covered. The faster guy may beat the coverage more often but even that isn't always the case. Goodwin is one of the faster guys in the league and he's had 2 pass plays of 80 yards and two of 60 in his entire career. He barely played this season and we still had no trouble getting guys open underneath and then getting a lot of YAC. My point is any receiver can be used on a deep pattern to open the middle of the field if it becomes necessary. The way Kyle schemes receivers open it isn't needed very often.

I went to a website that shows where every pass was thrown in each game. You can look it up for every QB. Jimmy rarely threw deeper than about 20 -23 yards. By far most of his throws are in the 10-15 yrd range. He had several games where he didn't throw one pass longer than 25 yards and very few where he actually went 40+. What surprised me was that even Wilson and Mahomes didn't throw really deep very often. They were more successful when they did which is probably why we think they throw deep a lot.

Bottom line is the long bomb isn't extinct but it's not a big part of the NFL these days. Teams are more likely to use it only when forced into it because they know throws under 20 yards are far more efficient. The deeper throws also can be picked off easier because of all the time the ball is in the air.

I never disputed your statement that deep throws don't happen often, I agree with you there. My point is that on many intermediate throws, there's a deep route being ran that opens up the underneath route. A speedy WR pushes the deep defender downfield quicker than an average speed WR resulting in the area opening up sooner. A well designed pass play that requires a clearing route still benefits from having a fast WR running that clearing route.

Originally posted by thl408:

I never disputed your statement that deep throws don't happen often, I agree with you there. My point is that on many intermediate throws, there's a deep route being ran that opens up the underneath route. A speedy WR pushes the deep defender downfield quicker than an average speed WR resulting in the area opening up sooner. A well designed pass play that requires a clearing route still benefits from having a fast WR running that clearing route.

I concur great analysis, like always Thl

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by thl408:

I never disputed your statement that deep throws don't happen often, I agree with you there. My point is that on many intermediate throws, there's a deep route being ran that opens up the underneath route. A speedy WR pushes the deep defender downfield quicker than an average speed WR resulting in the area opening up sooner. A well designed pass play that requires a clearing route still benefits from having a fast WR running that clearing route.

I concur great analysis, like always Thl

Yup. And when you get on top of a CB as fast as Goodwin, it REALLY puts that S in a bind too. He's not going to be cheating up like we saw in the Superbowl.

Originally posted by NCommand:

https://twitter.com/marquisegoodwin/status/1237474927881617408

Deleted. What did it say?

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by NCommand:

https://twitter.com/marquisegoodwin/status/1237474927881617408

Deleted. What did it say?

We must know. NC, WE DEMAND ANSWERS.

really hits the feels at 3:41

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by NCommand:

https://twitter.com/marquisegoodwin/status/1237474927881617408

Deleted. What did it say?

We must know. NC, WE DEMAND ANSWERS.

Odd. It was a tweet linking to his IG of HIM asking fans what they think will happen...stay or go and if go, go where?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by NCommand:

https://twitter.com/marquisegoodwin/status/1237474927881617408

Deleted. What did it say?

We must know. NC, WE DEMAND ANSWERS.

Odd. It was a tweet linking to his IG of HIM asking fans what they think will happen...stay or go and if go, go where?

Oh. Anticlimactic. Was thinking more than that, lol.

Why is he not cut

This dude is dog s**t. Cut him yesterday.

Not worried - he can be cut at any time.

If he's not cut soon - he'll be cut later.

At this point it isn't hurting us - we all know he's toast.

And I'm sure JL has his reasons for waiting.