Malcolm Smith, LB

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

Hate to lose him but if there was one starter I could live with losing it would be him. Still, its early and an injury like this really hurts. Obviously Foster now gets a bigger role and Ray-Ray Armstrong is a valuable player again and I like him and I keep reading he is having a strong camp and a good fit in this D. Losing Garnett really hurts short term and long term. Ughhhh

Yup.

Double Yup, but I'd rather lose Malcolm than say an Elvis. As long as we have a legit pass rusher, that defense shouldn't do too badly. We lose the pass rusher, there goes the season. I haven't heard anything about Pita, and I'm hoping that's a good sign.

Pita was buried behind AA/Dumervil/Lynch so they've moved him to SAM behind Brooks/Harold/Watson. Probably working as an edge rusher from both sides for now but PS might be his first destination.

Originally posted by Draftology:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It isnt 11.5M over 5 years. Get your numbers right. If he stays 5 years he gets 26.5M. They paid a weak side LB a guaranteed 11.5 million for 2 years that includes a 7M sign on. Not a small number for that position.

Foster may not even start over Ray Ray in week 1. Time will tell on that but he certainly wasnt going to start ahead of Smith given the investment in Smith and his relationship with Saleh.

Dude his signing bonus is distributed over the length of his contact with regards to the salary cap. If we cut him now, a portion of his bonus will count towards our cap each year down the road. Only $7.6m is guaranteed over the first two years - that's fringe starter money. Regardless, the point is that it is a very small long term commitment.

I don't know if you think Smith is gods gift to the LB position or something but he was actually one of the worst starting 4-3 lbs in the league last year. And a coach having worked with a player like that doesn't mean that player will play over someone else who is flat out better.

I promise his not being on the field will have little to no impact on our team performance. And there is no way in hell Ray Ray Armstrong starts over Foster.

This post feels naive. Smith by all accounts was having the best camp of any of the LB's. Some players fit certain scheme's/teams better than others.

"One of the worst starting 4-3 lbs in the league last year" . He had 103tackles, 3 Passes defensed, 1 int and 2 forced fumbles last season. By way of comparison, that was 7th highest for all olb, regardless of scheme and more than Burfict, Casillas, Bucannon in every statistical category. That's also more than players who don't play the same position and as a result have more opportunity to make plays like mlb Kuechly, ss Jefferson, ss Morgan Burnett, mlb Mosley. At least know wtf you're talking about before making such ridiculous statements.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It isnt 11.5M over 5 years. Get your numbers right. If he stays 5 years he gets 26.5M. They paid a weak side LB a guaranteed 11.5 million for 2 years that includes a 7M sign on. Not a small number for that position.

Foster may not even start over Ray Ray in week 1. Time will tell on that but he certainly wasnt going to start ahead of Smith given the investment in Smith and his relationship with Saleh.

For a team in our situation it actually isn't a bad deal despite overpaying him. He also was bringing a veteran presence and a knowledge of the scheme which helps with the install of said scheme. We have the money and will still have the money (and then some) after these first 2 years and at the time he signed with us we had no way of knowing we would land Foster.

This deal in no way is actually hurting us this year or next. And even if he can't be on the field this year he can help off of it given his knowledge.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

It isnt 11.5M over 5 years. Get your numbers right. If he stays 5 years he gets 26.5M. They paid a weak side LB a guaranteed 11.5 million for 2 years that includes a 7M sign on. Not a small number for that position.

Foster may not even start over Ray Ray in week 1. Time will tell on that but he certainly wasnt going to start ahead of Smith given the investment in Smith and his relationship with Saleh.

For a team in our situation it actually isn't a bad deal despite overpaying him. He also was bringing a veteran presence and a knowledge of the scheme which helps with the install of said scheme. We have the money and will still have the money (and then some) after these first 2 years and at the time he signed with us we had no way of knowing we would land Foster.

This deal in no way is actually hurting us this year or next. And even if he can't be on the field this year he can help off of it given his knowledge.

Exactly. You hate to lose the guy and he and Foster/Ray-Ray were running with the 1's as the lone 2 linebackers in nickel because of his speed and knowledge but right now, he'll be tasked with helping to coach up both Ray-Ray and Foster, which is a bummer for him because of how that would affect his future here but it is what it is.

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Smith was a backup with Oakland prior to coming here. He should never have been signed to that type of money. Had they known they'd be drafting Rueben, they would never have signed him at that money.

Backup? He led Oakland in tackles the last two years if I'm not mistaken. That's not backup territory. I still think they may have signed him but probably not at as high of an offer. His experience in this defense is needed and hopefully he can still offer guidance and insight to Foster. Nobody expected us to get Soloman and Foster which makes the sting of the injury much less.

I thought he was a backup? Man, got some bad info, I'm embarrassed.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It isnt 11.5M over 5 years. Get your numbers right. If he stays 5 years he gets 26.5M. They paid a weak side LB a guaranteed 11.5 million for 2 years that includes a 7M sign on. Not a small number for that position.

Foster may not even start over Ray Ray in week 1. Time will tell on that but he certainly wasnt going to start ahead of Smith given the investment in Smith and his relationship with Saleh.

For a team in our situation it actually isn't a bad deal despite overpaying him. He also was bringing a veteran presence and a knowledge of the scheme which helps with the install of said scheme. We have the money and will still have the money (and then some) after these first 2 years and at the time he signed with us we had no way of knowing we would land Foster.

This deal in no way is actually hurting us this year or next. And even if he can't be on the field this year he can help off of it given his knowledge.

I completely agree. It was a bit of an overpay but I still believe he was going to start or, in the very least, be a real contributor in a backup role. Saying his loss is basically nothing is a ridiculous and naive statement.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
It isnt 11.5M over 5 years. Get your numbers right. If he stays 5 years he gets 26.5M. They paid a weak side LB a guaranteed 11.5 million for 2 years that includes a 7M sign on. Not a small number for that position.

Foster may not even start over Ray Ray in week 1. Time will tell on that but he certainly wasnt going to start ahead of Smith given the investment in Smith and his relationship with Saleh.

For a team in our situation it actually isn't a bad deal despite overpaying him. He also was bringing a veteran presence and a knowledge of the scheme which helps with the install of said scheme. We have the money and will still have the money (and then some) after these first 2 years and at the time he signed with us we had no way of knowing we would land Foster.

This deal in no way is actually hurting us this year or next. And even if he can't be on the field this year he can help off of it given his knowledge.

I completely agree. It was a bit of an overpay but I still believe he was going to start or, in the very least, be a real contributor in a backup role. Saying his loss is basically nothing is a ridiculous and naive statement.

He might have been the starter in base packages but I think he would have been overtaken in base at some point in the season by Foster and reduced to the bench.

Agree that it is still a loss for us.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Smith was a backup with Oakland prior to coming here. He should never have been signed to that type of money. Had they known they'd be drafting Rueben, they would never have signed him at that money.

Backup? He led Oakland in tackles the last two years if I'm not mistaken. That's not backup territory. I still think they may have signed him but probably not at as high of an offer. His experience in this defense is needed and hopefully he can still offer guidance and insight to Foster. Nobody expected us to get Soloman and Foster which makes the sting of the injury much less.

I thought he was a backup? Man, got some bad info, I'm embarrassed.

I think he may have been a backup for Seattle for a while. For once we actually got lucky having a backup plan gifted to us by teams passing on Foster. We would likely have been much more screwed if Smith was our only good option. Armstrong is a mystery to me, could fit well or could be forgotten by game 6. Once Foster was drafted it was only going to be a matter of time before he started. When healthy, you don't keep a player like that off the field.

Originally posted by WINiner:
This post feels naive. Smith by all accounts was having the best camp of any of the LB's. Some players fit certain scheme's/teams better than others.

"One of the worst starting 4-3 lbs in the league last year" . He had 103tackles, 3 Passes defensed, 1 int and 2 forced fumbles last season. By way of comparison, that was 7th highest for all olb, regardless of scheme and more than Burfict, Casillas, Bucannon in every statistical category. That's also more than players who don't play the same position and as a result have more opportunity to make plays like mlb Kuechly, ss Jefferson, ss Morgan Burnett, mlb Mosley. At least know wtf you're talking about before making such ridiculous statements.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/malcolm-smith/6394

See his 2016 PFF rank above. Raw stats rarely tell the story when it comes to defensive players given how significantly a player can impact a play (negively or positively) without touching the ball or ball carrier.

His grade on PFF was 46 which falls into the "Poor" category. Given that there's a "Below Average" category ABOVE that, I'd say that's pretty bad. His rank is also #67 among OLB's. If you assume each team has two starters, he isn't even a starting quality OLB...

I know your response may be to challenge the validity of PFF grades, but they are no doubt a better indicator of performance than raw stats. We have better tools to evaluate performance these days dude. Don't just blindly read a stat sheet and draw a conclusion.

Additionally, I'd point to the performance of the Raiders defense and their willingness to resign him. He played along side the defensive player of the year, yet their defense was still sub-par. I know there are 9 other guys on the field, but again, it's another indicator of poor performance. If he was one of their few strong performers, they would have made an attempt to resign him as opposed to giving a similar contract to Bruce Irvin.

Also, read the article below which has some more meaningful metrics to look at such as missed tackles and touchdowns allowed in coverage - metrics that aren't reflected in the stats from the 60's that you use...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-7-free-agency-moves-that-make-no-sense

Originally posted by teylo31:
I dont get how people are marginalizing his loss. The team sought him out, sat down with him, then signed him to a contract. He was a brick one way or another. I dont think the staff is looking at it as no big deal

agree.. the arrogance of some stun me. its like,. oh its ok. we had the money to sign him and he was just going to be a teacher anyway. ray ray and a unproven rookie with a bum shoulder will do the job. wow. of course when you say that you get accused of being a hater but thats besides the point

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I completely agree. It was a bit of an overpay but I still believe he was going to start or, in the very least, be a real contributor in a backup role. Saying his loss is basically nothing is a ridiculous and naive statement.

good job john

So how/where did he get hurt?!?!?!

Originally posted by Nes49:
So how/where did he get hurt?!?!?!

making a simple tackle. our great off season free agent signing. . of course lynch gets a pass for shelling out so much money for a scrub cuz he gives a nice interview and he is not trent

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Nes49:

So how/where did he get hurt?!?!?!

making a simple tackle. our great off season free agent signing. . of course lynch gets a pass for shelling out so much money for a scrub cuz he gives a nice interview and he is not trent

Hopefully, some day, Lynch will sell his soul to the devil to acquire the ability to foretell the future. Then he would have known we would be getting Foster as well as known Smith would go down with a major injury early.

I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I remember being livid about our GM bringing in a player his DC coveted for his scheme especially after watching the epic play of Wilhoite and that horrendous 8th string white special needs team dude play as a tandem all year together.

I mean, come on. Even we, as lowly fans, knew better esp. after reading cciowa's posts back then.

#cciowa4GM

fk him, he's a seahawk.