Malcolm Smith, LB

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:

fine. i will answer you if that makes you feel better.... i had a huge problem back then with the amount of money we were paying a guy who was not very good.... if you were going to do that than god lynch should have backed up the truck and over payed out mayos penis for hightower of the the pats.,, i never believe in over paying for people based upon their track record. what stuns me is that people are just ok with paying an obscene amount of money for a guy who those same people say would only be a coach.. what low expectations we have. i was thinking someone decent is out there to sign for him who can be a nice player for us but of course he goes and signs some piece of trash. but thats ok. he is not trent and gives a nice interview so its all good.. can you sleep better at night now that i answered you

Absolutely. I was trying to understand why you'd be down on the pickup. Sure, I would have loved a playmaker like Hightower too. But it might be a while before that caliber of player wants to come here.

s**t.. nfl players are like trained seals.. you throw enough money at them you can get them to play anywhere and do anything... lynch just did not try hard enough.. to get hightower. that would have showed me something but instead he got smith. over paid for him and now the whimp hurt himself making a tackle and is gone for the year.

Were gonna keep it short and simple with you CC... Arent you gonna be happy AF if Ray-Ray/Frost ball next to Bow and if they dont fudge it cause were not in SB contentions anyways?

Everything happens for a reason my dude,chill and enjoy. We love you bro, we want you around. Its my bday, please just be enjoy the season

Whatever happens,happens.

Tough loss, but it played out perfect for the next man up

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:

fine. i will answer you if that makes you feel better.... i had a huge problem back then with the amount of money we were paying a guy who was not very good.... if you were going to do that than god lynch should have backed up the truck and over payed out mayos penis for hightower of the the pats.,, i never believe in over paying for people based upon their track record. what stuns me is that people are just ok with paying an obscene amount of money for a guy who those same people say would only be a coach.. what low expectations we have. i was thinking someone decent is out there to sign for him who can be a nice player for us but of course he goes and signs some piece of trash. but thats ok. he is not trent and gives a nice interview so its all good.. can you sleep better at night now that i answered you

Absolutely. I was trying to understand why you'd be down on the pickup. Sure, I would have loved a playmaker like Hightower too. But it might be a while before that caliber of player wants to come here.

s**t.. nfl players are like trained seals.. you throw enough money at them you can get them to play anywhere and do anything... lynch just did not try hard enough.. to get hightower. that would have showed me something but instead he got smith. over paid for him and now the whimp hurt himself making a tackle and is gone for the year.

Injuries can happen to anyone. It's not like Smith has a history, oh yeah Hightower does though . Would of looked a lot dumber paying Hightower a bunch more than Smith and having him go down. Lets be perfectly frank too, you have zero clue how hard Lynch tried to get Hightower, ZERO, ZILCH, NO clue whatsoever. Just keep making assumptions, like the assumption we were ever actually a possible destination. Sometimes money isn't enough to leave a stacked defense on a championship team about to go to the super bowl yet again. Trained Seals? Sure whatever, that's why player after player is leaving millions on the table and retiring early. I wish Willis was a trained seal.

Another one bites the dust.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
fine. i will answer you if that makes you feel better.... i had a huge problem back then with the amount of money we were paying a guy who was not very good.... if you were going to do that than god lynch should have backed up the truck and over payed out mayos penis for hightower of the the pats.,, i never believe in over paying for people based upon their track record. what stuns me is that people are just ok with paying an obscene amount of money for a guy who those same people say would only be a coach.. what low expectations we have. i was thinking someone decent is out there to sign for him who can be a nice player for us but of course he goes and signs some piece of trash. but thats ok. he is not trent and gives a nice interview so its all good.. can you sleep better at night now that i answered you

Absolutely. I was trying to understand why you'd be down on the pickup. Sure, I would have loved a playmaker like Hightower too. But it might be a while before that caliber of player wants to come here.

s**t.. nfl players are like trained seals.. you throw enough money at them you can get them to play anywhere and do anything... lynch just did not try hard enough.. to get hightower. that would have showed me something but instead he got smith. over paid for him and now the whimp hurt himself making a tackle and is gone for the year.

Pretty sure Hightower and Smith wouldn't have the same role in this defense, so I don't really see how it's comparable? Hightower is like 40lbs bigger than Smith and Smith would be playing the WILL role.

Hightower would be more of a SAM LB like Brooks IMO.

Originally posted by Draftology:

Originally posted by WINiner:
I'll rely on the guys that do this for a living. So far the new regime has been very forth coming. To wit our local beat writers are quick to be negative. Both sources have said he was having the best camp of any of our LB's. If he wasn't one of the two would have contradicted the other.

As for your arguments. PFF is not a good source. They try to add substance to stats, but are often times way off because they don't know for sure what that players responsibility is on any given play, nor what the responsibilities of those around him were. You don't rack up the 6th most tackles by an olb (100+ is a lot of tackles), while playing in a scheme that still performed poorly despite having the defensive player of the year on it, especially when that scheme doesn't mesh well with your skillset yet still be one of the worst starting 4-3 olb in the league last year. Period. You're just effing wrong dude. Get over it.

He's not a superstar, but far from the claim you made, and his loss is going to be felt

You're putting more weight on the opinions of two beat writers observing 6 non-tackling practices from the sideline over people that have reviewed the tape of every single play from the 2016 season? You also value a stat like tackles over stats that incorporate the number of missed tackles a player had or anything that involves how well they defend the pass (1 interception and a couple passes deflected are not good representations of the hundreds of pass plays he participated in).

Aggregate stats like that are completely misleading - if he had a crappy dline or was on a defense that couldn't get off the field (both true), he would have a ton of opportunities to get tackles. However, he missed a ton of those opportunities, hence his ridiculous amount of missed tackles. There is a reason the Raiders didn't want him back and why we essentially gave him a 2 year contract with very few guarantees. He's a below average player. Screaming that he had 100 tackles last year means very, very little in evaluating his performance.

The Raiders did want him back and even made him an offer. Revisionist history doesn't work on this forum. It's not two beat writers, it was EVERY local bay area writer. Even people who are notoriously eager to report something negative about the team had good things to say about Smith. You are some dude on an internet forum criticizing a guy that you have unlikely even seen play much if at all while he was with the raiders, basing that opinion off one web site that is long received the ire of head coaches around the NFL because they really don't know wtf they are doing when they release their advanced stats, and then accusing me of being obtuse when I am naming 2 entirely different sources to both prove he wasn't "The worst starting 4-3 olb in the NFL" as you claimed based 100% off PFF stats.

Pot meet kettle.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
fine. i will answer you if that makes you feel better.... i had a huge problem back then with the amount of money we were paying a guy who was not very good.... if you were going to do that than god lynch should have backed up the truck and over payed out mayos penis for hightower of the the pats.,, i never believe in over paying for people based upon their track record. what stuns me is that people are just ok with paying an obscene amount of money for a guy who those same people say would only be a coach.. what low expectations we have. i was thinking someone decent is out there to sign for him who can be a nice player for us but of course he goes and signs some piece of trash. but thats ok. he is not trent and gives a nice interview so its all good.. can you sleep better at night now that i answered you

Absolutely. I was trying to understand why you'd be down on the pickup. Sure, I would have loved a playmaker like Hightower too. But it might be a while before that caliber of player wants to come here.

s**t.. nfl players are like trained seals.. you throw enough money at them you can get them to play anywhere and do anything... lynch just did not try hard enough.. to get hightower. that would have showed me something but instead he got smith. over paid for him and now the whimp hurt himself making a tackle and is gone for the year.

Were gonna keep it short and simple with you CC... Arent you gonna be happy AF if Ray-Ray/Frost ball next to Bow and if they dont fudge it cause were not in SB contentions anyways?

Everything happens for a reason my dude,chill and enjoy. We love you bro, we want you around. Its my bday, please just be enjoy the season

Whatever happens,happens.

Speak for yourself.

Originally posted by WINiner:
The Raiders did want him back and even made him an offer. Revisionist history doesn't work on this forum. It's not two beat writers, it was EVERY local bay area writer. Even people who are notoriously eager to report something negative about the team had good things to say about Smith. You are some dude on an internet forum criticizing a guy that you have unlikely even seen play much if at all while he was with the raiders, basing that opinion off one web site that is long received the ire of head coaches around the NFL because they really don't know wtf they are doing when they release their advanced stats, and then accusing me of being obtuse when I am naming 2 entirely different sources to both prove he wasn't "The worst starting 4-3 olb in the NFL" as you claimed based 100% off PFF stats.

Pot meet kettle.

Where did you see the Raiders tried to resign him and gave him an offer? This article points out that the Raiders had decided not to retain him before free agency even started and before he decided to sign with the 49ers...obviously that could be because his contract demands were too high but given that they gave Bruce Irvin more money, they clearly had enough cap room to resign him but didn't think he was worth what he was asking for. Revisionist history you say?

I have watched Malcolm Smith play quite a bit, and while I'm not a scout and cannot asses his true performance, I think we can both agree he doesn't jump off the screen. And say what you want about PFF, you don't need to know the play to see if a player missed a tackle. His missed tackle rate was 25%!!! That's not a typo. He missed 1/4 of his opportunities to make a tackle. That is horrendous. For context, the worst missed tackle rate by team is the Saints at 13.6% (the Raiders were right with them at 12.4%).

I'll go back to what I said before, you are basing your entire assessment on beat writers' opinions of 6 non-tackling practices (which helps him quite a bit obviously) and the fact that he had 100 tackles last year. This is not how you evaluate a player...yes, I lean heavily on PFF and there is an expected margin of error, but the dude was TWO TIERS below what they would consider an average quality OLB. And the reason I use them is because 1) they study every single play a player participates in over the course of a season (which beat writers do not...they watch, they don't study). and 2) they use meaningful advanced analytics to evaluate players as opposed to misleading stats such as tackles.

I don't think it's unreasonable to call him one of the worst starting OLB's in the league (which is what I said originally before you misquoted me).

Originally posted by walker807:
Injuries can happen to anyone. It's not like Smith has a history, oh yeah Hightower does though . Would of looked a lot dumber paying Hightower a bunch more than Smith and having him go down. Lets be perfectly frank too, you have zero clue how hard Lynch tried to get Hightower, ZERO, ZILCH, NO clue whatsoever. Just keep making assumptions, like the assumption we were ever actually a possible destination. Sometimes money isn't enough to leave a stacked defense on a championship team about to go to the super bowl yet again. Trained Seals? Sure whatever, that's why player after player is leaving millions on the table and retiring early. I wish Willis was a trained seal.

lynchexcuses

Originally posted by Draftology:

Where did you see the Raiders tried to resign him? This article points out that the Raiders had decided not to retain him before he decided to sign with the 49ers...obviously that could be because his contract demands were too high but given that they gave Bruce Irvin more money, they clearly had enough cap room to resign him but didn't think he was worth what he was asking for. Revisionist history you say?

I have watched Malcolm Smith play quite a bit, and while I'm not a scout and cannot asses his true performance, I think we can both agree he doesn't jump of the screen. And say what you want about PFF, you don't need to know the play to see if a player missed a tackle. His missed tackle rate was 25%!!! That's not a typo. He missed 1/4 of his opportunities to make a tackle. That is horrendous. For context, the worst missed tackle rate by team is the Saints at 13.6% (the Raiders were right with them at 12.4%).

I'll go back to what I said before, you are basing your entire assessment on beat writers' opinions of 6 non-tackling practices (which helps him quite a bit obviously) and the fact that he had 100 tackles last year. This is not how you evaluate a player...yes, I lean heavily on PFF and there is an expected margin of error, but the dude was TWO TIERS below what they would consider an average quality OLB. And the reason I use them is because 1) they study every single play a player participates in over the course of a season (which beat writers do not...they watch, they don't study). and 2) they use meaningful advanced analytics to evaluate players as opposed to misleading stats such as tackles.

I don't think it's unreasonable to call him one of the worst starting OLB's in the league (which is what I said originally before you miss quoted me).

I thought it was a horrible signing and while I lean on PFF stats as well I thought he played piss poor last yr and most people saw it.... I also think that defense overall played piss poor.

I understand the importance of the player/coach connection in FA and let's not try to pretend that we weren't gonna have to over pay for just about any FA this past offseason.

first glance at his contract it looks like we can move on from him after next yr with not a ton of dead money. I think he was more of an insurance plan if we couldn't have gotten foster.

Is what it is not every FA signing is gonna be a win for the team, especially one that's been awful like ours for the past couple yrs.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I thought it was a horrible signing and while I lean on PFF stats as well I thought he played piss poor last yr and most people saw it.... I also think that defense overall played piss poor.

I understand the importance of the player/coach connection in FA and let's not try to pretend that we weren't gonna have to over pay for just about any FA this past offseason.

first glance at his contract it looks like we can move on from him after next yr with not a ton of dead money. I think he was more of an insurance plan if we couldn't have gotten foster.

Is what it is not every FA signing is gonna be a win for the team, especially one that's been awful like ours for the past couple yrs.

I actually don't mind the signing which I mentioned in a previous post - we had a gaping hole at WILL and made a relatively small long term commitment. My point here is that we are not going to miss him. He is a below average player and we have a super talented young player to replace him (whom I think was going to be the starter in week 1 anyway).

Originally posted by Draftology:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I thought it was a horrible signing and while I lean on PFF stats as well I thought he played piss poor last yr and most people saw it.... I also think that defense overall played piss poor.

I understand the importance of the player/coach connection in FA and let's not try to pretend that we weren't gonna have to over pay for just about any FA this past offseason.

first glance at his contract it looks like we can move on from him after next yr with not a ton of dead money. I think he was more of an insurance plan if we couldn't have gotten foster.

Is what it is not every FA signing is gonna be a win for the team, especially one that's been awful like ours for the past couple yrs.

I actually don't mind the signing which I mentioned in a previous post - we had a gaping hole at WILL and made a relatively small long term commitment. My point here is that we are not going to miss him. He is a below average player and we have a super talented young player to replace him (whom I think was going to be the starter in week 1 anyway).

Plus we didn't know about Bowman either. The FO had to be thinking, Brooks is 33, Ray-Ray is coming off a torn pec, Bo off an achilles, Wilhoite sucks, Harold has done nothing, Lynch was fat and lazy, etc.

I'd say "gaping hole" would be an understatement. LOL.

If they have a DC who loves a scheme-fit guy at that position, the FO did what they were supposed to do. Secure that player.

He'll obviously help Bo and Ray-Ray get up to speed but the overall point is, we might finally have a legit LB crew again with Brooks, Bo, Foster with depth in Ray-Ray, Harold, Watson, etc...plus an in-shape Lynch and Elvis and now, AA playing well.

That's one hell of a turn-around if you ask me.

But yeah, JL sucks and did nothing.

Is anyone really counting on Malcolm Smith next year? He's simply a guy. Better than what we have, but we can get sooooooo much better in the draft.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Is anyone really counting on Malcolm Smith next year? He's simply a guy. Better than what we have, but we can get sooooooo much better in the draft.

He'll compete for one of the LB spots, but I don't think anyone is counting on him being a contributor.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Is anyone really counting on Malcolm Smith next year? He's simply a guy. Better than what we have, but we can get sooooooo much better in the draft.

He'll compete for one of the LB spots, but I don't think anyone is counting on him being a contributor.

For 5 years, $26 million he better contribute.