Arizona Cardinals thread

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Can't really talk smack about Keim today. He killed the draft. Good job.

Maybe Bidwell keeping him was the right move.

He traded their 1st, 3rd and 5th round picks from last year for a late 2nd rounder this year.

The only OL spot he addressed was the one that they are deepest at.



Yeah, he did awesome.

Cardinals killed the draft?! According to whose draft board? Theirs? The internet?

CLEARLY actual NFL people didn't feel the same about Isabella and Butler as some on this board did. Maybe they'll be great, maybe they won't. The internet is prone to group think. Once people started claiming Butler was a fringe 1st rounder -- it became accepted as fact for some reason.

Also, the "value" Keim got for Rosen was atrocious. People who want to see Keim positively will say "oh, well it was a sunk cost... so anything they got was good!"

Their QB dumpster fire situation was ENTIRELY created by Steve Keim. Like, the whole thing.

Cardinals have some bricks, but I see them drafting top 5 or 10 again. It's improvement, but I'm still expecting a bad team.

4-12 coming soon

That little QB of theirs is going to be a pain in the ass to get a finger on, but it's just a matter of time before he gets his ass lit up, especially behind that shoddy OL. People cite Russell Wilson as an example of a shorter QB holding up, but Wilson is built like a tank; Kyler isn't. Let's see if he holds up.

Originally posted by Heroism:
That little QB of theirs is going to be a pain in the ass to get a finger on, but it's just a matter of time before he gets his ass lit up, especially behind that shoddy OL. People cite Russell Wilson as an example of a shorter QB holding up, but Wilson is built like a tank; Kyler isn't. Let's see if he holds up.

Agreed. Really surprised (pleasantly) that they didn't do more to address the OL so far this offseason.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Cardinals killed the draft?! According to whose draft board? Theirs? The internet?

CLEARLY actual NFL people didn't feel the same about Isabella and Butler as some on this board did. Maybe they'll be great, maybe they won't. The internet is prone to group think. Once people started claiming Butler was a fringe 1st rounder -- it became accepted as fact for some reason.

Also, the "value" Keim got for Rosen was atrocious. People who want to see Keim positively will say "oh, well it was a sunk cost... so anything they got was good!"

Their QB dumpster fire situation was ENTIRELY created by Steve Keim. Like, the whole thing.

Alot of Cardinal fans hated the draft, but alot of Cardinal fans dont follow football as closely as I do. AZ is a retiree state, so the older demographic as pretty antiquated views towards football players.

Example:
Kyler Murray is too short, he wont be able to see over the OL. Well, he hasnt been able to see over the OL since he was 15. Apparently it doesnt matter.
Kyler Murray is a running QB. Actually he was the highest rated pocket passing QB in all FBS. Hes a passer 1st, who can also run when needed.
Kyler is standoffish and shy. Yes he is. And I can name 1,000 6'5, extrovert, friendly American Pie QBs who were absolute trash. Personality doesnt matter.
etc.

So with that said, heres my breakdown of the Cards draft:
1. Kyler was the correct pick. He is boom or bust, like any QB, but his ceiling and floor are both higher than Rosen. Rosen has always been a "potential" QB. They say he will be good someday, but someday never seems to come. I like Rosen, but Kyler is far more talented.

2. Byron Murphy was the best CB in the draft, hands down. Alot of Cards fans were upset the Patriots stole N'Keal Harry at pick #32. I was thrilled they did, because taking a guy just because "hes a home town kid" is asinine. NE taking Harry meant AZ could take Murphy, the better pick and need.

3. Andy Isabella. I love Isabella, so im probably biased. If youre a PFF follower (some arent) hes the highest rated WR theyve ever tracked. Kid is dominant. Reason he wasnt a top 10 pick is because hes 5'8. Kid is going to be a problem in the NFL. Hes is always underestimated.

4. Hakeem Butler is overrated. Hes a stiff route runner, is slow to get up to speed, and has the drops. But what he is is 6'5 and you cant teach that. Hes a dominant straight line deep threat and hes a huge red zone jump-ball target. Perfect system fit WR.

5. Zach Allen is a very solid DL. Not all the picks can be stars. Hes not. But he is as solid as can be. Only DE in recent history to record 100 tackles in a season. So the guy is a stopper.

6. Lamond Gaillard. Poor mans Mike Iupati. Great run blocker. Iffy in pass pro.

7. Keesean Johnson WR. Most productive WR in FBS last year.

8. Josh Miles OT. Terrible pick. Camp fodder.

9. Caleb Wilson TE. Pure receiving TE, most productive TE in FBS last year.

So the running theme will almost all of these picks is these guys are "the most" or "the best" in all of FBS at something. Kyler is the #1 deep threat QB in football. Isabella and Butler are the #1 and #2 deep threats in all college football. AZ got both. That says something about the offense.

Biggest takeaways:
1. The offensive firepower is completely reloaded. QB. Entire WR room. TE room. Still have DJ at RB.
2. D will be much improved with the additions of Darius Philon on the DL, Murphy as an elite #2 CB and Jordan Hicks at ILB.
3. OL will still be a problem for 1 more year. Now that all other needs have been addressed, the 2020 draft will be used on OL.

Conclusion:

AZ wont be a threat this year. Assuming Kyler is a star (again, all QBs are boom or bust) then AZ will be a major threat in 2020 and beyond. I can tell you as a life long AZ fan, that Kliff Kingbury made most of these picks. Keim has very identifiable characteristics. He loves projects. "High upside guys". Similar to Al Davis, he falls in love with Height/Weight/Speed. etc. Keim would never pick a 5'10 QB or a 5'8 WR or a 5'10 CB, no matter how dominant they were. This was all KK. And I think he knocked it out of the park.

And yes, Keim did completely bumble the Rosen situation. They knew they were taking Murray for months, why they waited until the draft, and subsequently watched is trade value plummet, is beyond me. Keeping Rosen and Murray on the Roster together wouldve been catastrophic, and so count me in as someone who relieved Rosen was trade. A late round 2 is fine by me. Cut your losses and move on.

Originally posted by Cardinal42:

4. Hakeem Butler is overrated. Hes a stiff route runner, is slow to get up to speed, and has the drops. But what he is is 6'5 and you cant teach that. Hes a dominant straight line deep threat and hes a huge red zone jump-ball target. Perfect system fit WR.

If I had a dollar for every time I've seen that posted about a WR that fails at the NFL level...

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen that posted about a WR that fails at the NFL level...

Completely agree.

But ultimately its better to be 6'5 than not to be 6'5. If hes one of the rare who doesnt fail, then you have a 6'5 weapon

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen that posted about a WR that fails at the NFL level...

So true.

And people act like the 49ers don't have a slew of 6-3 cornerbacks lol. The guy giving me the most worries is Andy Isabella. I don't think any of our guys except for Jason Verrett matches up well with him.

Originally posted by Heroism:
So true.

And people act like the 49ers don't have a slew of 6-3 cornerbacks lol. The guy giving me the most worries is Andy Isabella. I don't think any of our guys except for Jason Verrett matches up well with him.

He shouldn't pose much of a threat when Bosa, Ford, and DeFo are treating their oline like turnstiles.

Originally posted by Heroism:

That little QB of theirs is going to be a pain in the ass to get a finger on, but it's just a matter of time before he gets his ass lit up, especially behind that shoddy OL. People cite Russell Wilson as an example of a shorter QB holding up, but Wilson is built like a tank; Kyler isn't. Let's see if he holds up.

Speaking of which they've already officially announced he is the starting QB from day one, which I completely expected seeing how he was hand-picked to be Kingsbury's trigger man. But even with that just saying he's the starter right out of the gate doesn't really do him any favors. IMO they're just giving Hobbit 2.0 all this entitlement the second he was drafted.

The loss of draft value in the Rosen debacle was unbelievable. Had it happened at SF the webzone would have melted down and air traffic control would have had to intervene to stop all the aircraft flying round towing SACK LYNCH banners.

Congratulations, Arizona, for making the Raiders look like a well-run franchise, a task I would have thought nearly impossible.