Arizona Cardinals thread

Originally posted by English:
The loss of draft value in the Rosen debacle was unbelievable. Had it happened at SF the webzone would have melted down and air traffic control would have had to intervene to stop all the aircraft flying round towing SACK LYNCH banners.

Congratulations, Arizona, for making the Raiders look like a well-run franchise, a task I would have thought nearly impossible.

Alot of AZ fans are mad. Im not. I believe in the old wisdom "fail fast". Rosen isnt going to be a star. Better get rid of him after 1 year and try again rather than sink 3 disappointing years into him. Rosen had the worst QBR of any starting QB last year. This idea thats hes worth a 1st round pick in a trade makes no sense.

You just spent a 3rd overall on Solomon Thomas. You know what Id give you for him? A conditional 8th round pick, maybe.

Originally posted by Cardinal42:

Alot of AZ fans are mad. Im not. I believe in the old wisdom "fail fast". Rosen isnt going to be a star. Better get rid of him after 1 year and try again rather than sink 3 disappointing years into him. Rosen had the worst QBR of any starting QB last year. This idea thats hes worth a 1st round pick in a trade makes no sense.

You just spent a 3rd overall on Solomon Thomas. You know what Id give you for him? A conditional 8th round pick, maybe.

You have to move on but moving on doesn't make it NOT a colossal f**kup.

Rosen has a 0% chance to do anything for the cards this year. ST will contribute something.

Giving Keim credit for shipping Rosen for pennies on the dollar is like giving credit to a dude who swept his living room after intentionally lighting it on fire.

Originally posted by Cardinal42:

Originally posted by English:
The loss of draft value in the Rosen debacle was unbelievable. Had it happened at SF the webzone would have melted down and air traffic control would have had to intervene to stop all the aircraft flying round towing SACK LYNCH banners.

Congratulations, Arizona, for making the Raiders look like a well-run franchise, a task I would have thought nearly impossible.

Alot of AZ fans are mad. Im not. I believe in the old wisdom "fail fast". Rosen isnt going to be a star. Better get rid of him after 1 year and try again rather than sink 3 disappointing years into him. Rosen had the worst QBR of any starting QB last year. This idea thats hes worth a 1st round pick in a trade makes no sense.

You just spent a 3rd overall on Solomon Thomas. You know what Id give you for him? A conditional 8th round pick, maybe.

I lean towards fail fast too. I had hopes for a safety duo of Ward and Tartt . . . two years ago. I still think they have potential to do it, but I don't trust that they can stay healthy for 30 straight games. I'm not sure about trading or cutting a player immediately, but at least I'd prefer serious competition each year.

As for Rosen, I've never been a fan, so I think it's better for ARI to trade him while they could (though I wouldn't have drafted him in the first place). But, I can see why people would be angry if they believe in the potential. He could possibly compete with Murray and be molded into a Jay Cutler.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Giving Keim credit for shipping Rosen for pennies on the dollar is like giving credit to a dude who swept his living room after intentionally lighting it on fire.

So true some Arizona fans are delusional and in denial. Wow.

Arizona, objectively, what say you?

Offensive Personnel:
QB: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RB/FB: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
TE1/TE2/OW: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
XWR/SWR/ZWR: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
LT/RT: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona
C/LG/RG: Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Arizona

Offensive Talent: Los Angeles 20, San Francisco 17, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Defensive Personnel:
NT/DT: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle
DE/ER: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
SAM/MIKE/TED/WILL: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RCB/SCB/LCB: Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco
FS/SS: Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona. San Francisco

Defensive Talent: Los Angeles 15, San Francisco 12, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Special Teams:
LS/PK/P: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona

Special Teams Talent: San Francisco 4, Los Angeles 3, Seattle 2, Arizona 1

Total: Los Angeles 38, San Francisco 33, Seattle 26, Arizona 23

Originally posted by NCommand:
Arizona, objectively, what say you?

Offensive Personnel:
QB: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RB/FB: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
TE1/TE2/OW: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
XWR/SWR/ZWR: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
LT/RT: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona
C/LG/RG: Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Arizona

Offensive Talent: Los Angeles 20, San Francisco 17, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Defensive Personnel:
NT/DT: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle
DE/ER: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
SAM/MIKE/TED/WILL: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RCB/SCB/LCB: Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco
FS/SS: Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona. San Francisco

Defensive Talent: Los Angeles 15, San Francisco 12, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Special Teams:
LS/PK/P: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona

Special Teams Talent: San Francisco 4, Los Angeles 3, Seattle 2, Arizona 1

Total: Los Angeles 38, San Francisco 33, Seattle 26, Arizona 23

Im not sure what those numbers mean, but Ill rank them as I see them:

Offensive Personnel:
QB: Seattle, Arizona, LA, San Fran - I understand Murray is unproven, he should be last on the list. But Im assuming he'll be good for now. Jimmy G hasnt really started his SF career yet. Short 2017 then got hurt 2018. So hes almost similarly unproven as Murray.

RB/FB: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle - agreed
TE1/TE2/OW: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle -agreed

XWR/SWR/ZWR: AZ, LA, SF, Seattle. - Very close AZ and LA. I give AZ the nod because LAs #1 (Cooper Kupp) hasnt come back from injury yet. AZs WR are all healthy. Fitz, Kirk, Isabella and Hakeem are a murderers row. Fun fact: PFF says Isabella and Hakeem are the #1 and #2 deep threat WRs in all FBS. Az got them both, that tells you something about their offense. Furthermore, Isabella was PFFs top ranked WR...ever. Since they started as a company. I get it, hes 5'8 and white. But he was the most dominant receiver in all college football. Please do doubt him.

LT/RT: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona - agreed
C/LG/RG: Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Arizona - agreed - watch out 2020 draft and FA. AZ is coming for ALL THE OL

Defensive Personnel:
NT/DT: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle - agreed, for the time being. Darius Philon was a sneaky amazing FA pickup
DE/ER: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle - agreed

SAM/MIKE/TED/WILL: Seattle, San Francisco, AZ, LA - This is a tough one. AZ has Chandler, whos the best pass rusher in the NFCW. But I agree the other 3 spots are weaker. Hicks has a shot to be one of the best ILBs in the division.

RCB/SCB/LCB: Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco

FS/SS:Los Angeles, AZ, Seattle,San Francisco. Baker and Swearinger are both pro bowlers

Special Teams:
LS/PK/P:LA, AZ, SF, Seattle - Legatron locks up #1. Cant put SF too high given the kicker is about to pull a leveon bell to get out. AZs punter (your own former Andy Lee) is the best in the division

Originally posted by NCommand:

Arizona, objectively, what say you?

Offensive Personnel:
QB: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RB/FB: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
TE1/TE2/OW: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
XWR/SWR/ZWR: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle
LT/RT: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona
C/LG/RG: Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Arizona

Offensive Talent: Los Angeles 20, San Francisco 17, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Defensive Personnel:
NT/DT: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle
DE/ER: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle
SAM/MIKE/TED/WILL: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona
RCB/SCB/LCB: Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco
FS/SS: Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona. San Francisco

Defensive Talent: Los Angeles 15, San Francisco 12, Seattle 12, Arizona 11

Special Teams:
LS/PK/P: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona

Special Teams Talent: San Francisco 4, Los Angeles 3, Seattle 2, Arizona 1

Total: Los Angeles 38, San Francisco 33, Seattle 26, Arizona 23

Well NC I understand what you mean and I agree with the rankings. However I think the niners offense can easily be more productive than the rams due to shanny being a better playcaller and jimmy g a better qb.

As far as defense the secondary worries me besides Sherman and oft injured Verrett but can easily be the best d in the division bc the rams lbs and run d is atrocious

Originally posted by Cardinal42:

Im not sure what those numbers mean, but Ill rank them as I see them:

Offensive Personnel:
QB: Seattle, Arizona, LA, San Fran - I understand Murray is unproven, he should be last on the list. But Im assuming he'll be good for now. Jimmy G hasnt really started his SF career yet. Short 2017 then got hurt 2018. So hes almost similarly unproven as Murray.

RB/FB: Los Angeles, Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle - agreed
TE1/TE2/OW: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle -agreed

XWR/SWR/ZWR: AZ, LA, SF, Seattle. - Very close AZ and LA. I give AZ the nod because LAs #1 (Cooper Kupp) hasnt come back from injury yet. AZs WR are all healthy. Fitz, Kirk, Isabella and Hakeem are a murderers row. Fun fact: PFF says Isabella and Hakeem are the #1 and #2 deep threat WRs in all FBS. Az got them both, that tells you something about their offense. Furthermore, Isabella was PFFs top ranked WR...ever. Since they started as a company. I get it, hes 5'8 and white. But he was the most dominant receiver in all college football. Please do doubt him.

LT/RT: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona - agreed
C/LG/RG: Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, Arizona - agreed - watch out 2020 draft and FA. AZ is coming for ALL THE OL

Defensive Personnel:
NT/DT: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle - agreed, for the time being. Darius Philon was a sneaky amazing FA pickup
DE/ER: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Arizona, Seattle - agreed

SAM/MIKE/TED/WILL: Seattle, San Francisco, AZ, LA - This is a tough one. AZ has Chandler, whos the best pass rusher in the NFCW. But I agree the other 3 spots are weaker. Hicks has a shot to be one of the best ILBs in the division.

RCB/SCB/LCB: Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco

FS/SS:Los Angeles, AZ, Seattle,San Francisco. Baker and Swearinger are both pro bowlers

Special Teams:
LS/PK/P:LA, AZ, SF, Seattle - Legatron locks up #1. Cant put SF too high given the kicker is about to pull a leveon bell to get out. AZs punter (your own former Andy Lee) is the best in the division

Nice. Just a 4-3-2-1 point assigned by order and then add up by offense, defense. ST and total just to get an idea where the NFCW stacks up on on talent alone.

elguapo is right too in that depth, health, coaching, development, scheme, experience at the QB position, etc. all will affect the talent and end results as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice. Just a 4-3-2-1 point assigned by order and then add up by offense, defense. ST and total just to get an idea where the NFCW stacks up on on talent alone.

elguapo is right too in that depth, health, coaching, development, scheme, experience at the QB position, etc. all will affect the talent and end results as well.

Alright I got it. In that case it breaks down like this:

LA - 33
SF - 29
AZ - 28
Seattle - 20

Thats accurate. I will say AZ takes a MAJOR hit on the OL. If they had any OL help at all, they'd be neck and neck with LA. Tellin ya, enjoy it while you can. AZ is 1 draft (2020) and FA away from being real contenders. They filled all other needs 2019. 2020 looks like its got some A+ OL too. So im looking forward to it.

This year will be bad. But improved on last

Starting a rookie qb is rarely a good idea in the NFL. Starting a rookie qb without an O line is perilous. He could become the next David Carr.

Originally posted by English:
Starting a rookie qb is rarely a good idea in the NFL. Starting a rookie qb without an O line is perilous. He could become the next David Carr.

seriously, they should've signed a vet qb. Or they should eventually.

Originally posted by English:
Starting a rookie qb is rarely a good idea in the NFL. Starting a rookie qb without an O line is perilous. He could become the next David Carr.

I disagree. You learn by doing. Having a guy sit for 2 years just means his rookie year is delayed by 2 years. And lets be real, #1 overall QBs not only start, but they arent even challenged. They are handed the job, unlike everyone else who has to "earn their spot".

Whether you have an all pro OL or no OL at all, you gotta play sometime. Murray has the advantage that he is probably the fastest QB in the NFL. Im FAR LESS concerned about Murrays health than I was about Rosen, whi just had to stand back there and get walloped.

And just to temper the expectations a little, AZs OL wont be THAT bad. It will be bad, but not Texans 76 sacks bad. At all. Last year AZ lost: starting LT, starting LG, starting C, starting RG and starting RT. No joke. Count em up, thats every starter. We have backups at all 5 positions for most of the season.

And so just having guys back healthy means itll be much improved

Originally posted by gold49digger:
seriously, they should've signed a vet qb. Or they should eventually.

Brett Hundley is a vet. And he can run KKs system pretty well.

Not that it matters. If you start worrying about who your backup QB is, that just means you dont expect your starter to survive the season. If Murray does get hurt, I couldnt care less who they roll out at QB. Ill be too busy looking at the 2020 draft OL prospects

From another conversation in another thread...just realized AZ has beat SF for 4 straight years.

2015
2016
2017
2018

AZ won both games. Honestly, didnt even realize it. Considering how bad the Cards have sucked since Warner (minus that 1 good year with BA) thats a wild stat. I had no idea AZ was so dominant in this matchup, funny enough to use that word for such a crappy team