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Nov 17, 2020 at 8:13 AM
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
8th in NFL in accuracy. 68.2%. Ahead of Rodgers, Big Ben, Prescott, Ryan. Mahomes.

He is definitely not even close to as accurate as those quarterbacks listed. Maybe when he dumps the ball off that increases his percentage. That's like a saying Jimmy Garoppolo is more accurate than 27 out of 32 quarterbacks because I believe he was top five in completion percentage. The percentages often lies. Stats don't reflect accuracy in this case, not at all

3rd in league in 40yd completions, 16th in 20yd completions. More yards per attempt than Brady, Ben, Mayfield, and Brees. So he's not just dumping it off. JG is 13th in accuracy (5th last year). Murray was 64.8% last year, and has improved to 68.2% and increased his ypa by almost a full yard to 7.6. Is it the Hopkins effect? Maybe. That's not his fault, any NFL QB would welcome the Hopkins effect. Funny thing is Watson's ypa and completion percentage have gone up this year without Hopkins on their roster.
Nov 17, 2020 at 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
8th in NFL in accuracy. 68.2%. Ahead of Rodgers, Big Ben, Prescott, Ryan. Mahomes.

He is definitely not even close to as accurate as those quarterbacks listed. Maybe when he dumps the ball off that increases his percentage. That's like a saying Jimmy Garoppolo is more accurate than 27 out of 32 quarterbacks because I believe he was top five in completion percentage. The percentages often lies. Stats don't reflect accuracy in this case, not at all

3rd in league in 40yd completions, 16th in 20yd completions. More yards per attempt than Brady, Ben, Mayfield, and Brees. So he's not just dumping it off. JG is 13th in accuracy (5th last year). Murray was 64.8% last year, and has improved to 68.2% and increased his ypa by almost a full yard to 7.6. Is it the Hopkins effect? Maybe. That's not his fault, any NFL QB would welcome the Hopkins effect. Funny thing is Watson's ypa and completion percentage have gone up this year without Hopkins on their roster.

Again those stats are good but if you watch any full game of his you will see how many bad passes he makes and how inaccurate his throws can be. Plus, Hopkins saves any NFL qb stats regardless of what the completion percentage may be. Watson is also making a lot safer throws this year without Hopkins.
[ Edited by elguapo on Nov 17, 2020 at 12:55 PM ]
Nov 17, 2020 at 1:05 PM
I'd kill to have a QB this "inaccurate," especially one this "inaccurate" down the field. Dude is going to finish with over 30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs.



[ Edited by Heroism on Nov 17, 2020 at 1:08 PM ]
Nov 17, 2020 at 4:13 PM
Originally posted by Heroism:
I'd kill to have a QB this "inaccurate," especially one this "inaccurate" down the field. Dude is going to finish with over 30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs.




I guess you missed all that accuracy against the lowly lions defense as well as Miami and quite a few other games. He will be a great qb if he improves his accuracy. Like I said Hopkins has caught many horrible throws by Murray as well. I guess expecting a qb to make plays AND be accurate is asking a little much these days. Call me greedy
[ Edited by elguapo on Nov 17, 2020 at 4:15 PM ]
Nov 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM
Originally posted by Heroism:
I'd kill to have a QB this "inaccurate," especially one this "inaccurate" down the field. Dude is going to finish with over 30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs.





100%
Nov 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM
Originally posted by Heroism:
I'd kill to have a QB this "inaccurate," especially one this "inaccurate" down the field. Dude is going to finish with over 30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs.



Reminder: elguapo is the same poster who made excuses for Garropolo early in the season because his receivers were hurt, and then also makes excuses for Wilson/Murray because they throw to quality targets.

In other words, if a QB has bad receivers, the results are tainted. If a QB has good receivers, the results are tainted. I guess it's kind of a Goldilocks and The Three Bears situation - you can only evaluate a QB if his receivers are "just right"?
Nov 18, 2020 at 7:18 PM
Originally posted by theduke85:
Originally posted by Heroism:
I'd kill to have a QB this "inaccurate," especially one this "inaccurate" down the field. Dude is going to finish with over 30 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs.



Reminder: elguapo is the same poster who made excuses for Garropolo early in the season because his receivers were hurt, and then also makes excuses for Wilson/Murray because they throw to quality targets.

In other words, if a QB has bad receivers, the results are tainted. If a QB has good receivers, the results are tainted. I guess it's kind of a Goldilocks and The Three Bears situation - you can only evaluate a QB if his receivers are "just right"?

Reminder: People who bud into conversations often have Ulterior motive's (even pathetic ones m, specifically being a stalker ). It is true that if a quarterback doesn't have good receivers their performance and stats suffer. Also the opposite is true, you can get an average quarterback with tremendous receivers and their production goes way up as well as stats. That's just logic but then again I know it's hard to grasp.

In the end, my initial point still stands that Murray still makes a lot of mistakes and misses a lot of throws (not to mention what Hopkins does for him many games, including last game) but he's still a very good and dynamic qb. If he improves his accuracy he will be great.
[ Edited by elguapo on Nov 18, 2020 at 7:21 PM ]
Nov 19, 2020 at 6:20 AM
Remember that we need to take Steve Young and Joe Montana's stats with a grain of salt. For the majority of their careers, they were playing with Jerry Rice. If they didn't have the luxury of throwing to a wide open Jerry Rice, would they really have been so successful? He's lucky he was there to bail them out and give them such easy throws.

NOTE: this post is tongue in cheek.
[ Edited by theduke85 on Nov 19, 2020 at 9:55 AM ]
Nov 19, 2020 at 7:53 AM
Originally posted by theduke85:
Remember that we need to take Steve Young and Joe Montana's stats with a grain of salt. For the majority of their careers, they were playing with Jerry Rice. If they didn't have the luxury of throwing to a wide open Jerry Rice, would they really have been so successful? He's lucky he was there to bail them out and give them such easy throws.

Montana didn't have Rice for the 1st 5 years of his career. I get your point though. You also have to consider that teams didn't pass as much then. Rule changes like the way QBs and receivers are protected make it easier to pass now so they do. Don't disregard the gloves receivers wear now. They are extremely sticky and make catching the ball easier, especially the one handed grabs you see so many players make.

Bottom line is comparing players from different eras is silly. With the way the game has evolved with rule changes, instant replay and nutritional supplements there is no real way to make a fair comparison.
Nov 19, 2020 at 8:02 AM
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Montana didn't have Rice for the 1st 5 years of his career. I get your point though. You also have to consider that teams didn't pass as much then. Rule changes like the way QBs and receivers are protected make it easier to pass now so they do. Don't disregard the gloves receivers wear now. They are extremely sticky and make catching the ball easier, especially the one handed grabs you see so many players make.

Bottom line is comparing players from different eras is silly. With the way the game has evolved with rule changes, instant replay and nutritional supplements there is no real way to make a fair comparison.
To be clear, I'm not trying to compare anyone. I'm saying that elguapo constantly tries to tear down rival QBs ("Murray gets 'bailed out' by Hopkins constantly", or "Russell Wilson has two elite WR in Metcalf and Lockett") as if having good weapons somehow invalidates their success. I'm just illustrating how asinine this argument is, considering you could apply the same logic to virtually any successful quarterback in history.
Nov 19, 2020 at 9:13 AM
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by theduke85:
Remember that we need to take Steve Young and Joe Montana's stats with a grain of salt. For the majority of their careers, they were playing with Jerry Rice. If they didn't have the luxury of throwing to a wide open Jerry Rice, would they really have been so successful? He's lucky he was there to bail them out and give them such easy throws.

Montana didn't have Rice for the 1st 5 years of his career. I get your point though. You also have to consider that teams didn't pass as much then. Rule changes like the way QBs and receivers are protected make it easier to pass now so they do. Don't disregard the gloves receivers wear now. They are extremely sticky and make catching the ball easier, especially the one handed grabs you see so many players make.

Bottom line is comparing players from different eras is silly. With the way the game has evolved with rule changes, instant replay and nutritional supplements there is no real way to make a fair comparison.

Also remember, back in those days the defense could pretty much hammer the QB. The current ticky tack roughing calls didn't exist.
Nov 19, 2020 at 9:56 AM
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Also remember, back in those days the defense could pretty much hammer the QB. The current ticky tack roughing calls didn't exist.
Went back and added an addendum to my previous post. It was tongue-in-cheek.
Nov 19, 2020 at 1:00 PM
Originally posted by theduke85:
To be clear, I'm not trying to compare anyone. I'm saying that elguapo constantly tries to tear down rival QBs ("Murray gets 'bailed out' by Hopkins constantly", or "Russell Wilson has two elite WR in Metcalf and Lockett") as if having good weapons somehow invalidates their success. I'm just illustrating how asinine this argument is, considering you could apply the same logic to virtually any successful quarterback in history.

Gotcha. The question of whether the QB makes the receiver better or visa versa will always be there. I always felt a good passing game was the sum of all the parts. QB, WRs, O line passing coordinator and all the coaches involved. The only time I feel the QB gets the bulk of thr credit is when he scrambles and extends the play while finding someone open downfield. When that happens it's about 80% on the QB.
[ Edited by CatchMaster80 on Nov 19, 2020 at 1:06 PM ]
Nov 19, 2020 at 7:23 PM
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Also remember, back in those days the defense could pretty much hammer the QB. The current ticky tack roughing calls didn't exist.

Right on Rath and it's funny his Montana won 2 of 4 of his SB's were without Rice Taylor Rathman Jones . There's no remembering when making an idiotic post that defies all logic and reason like those that prove only my point. Some people just try too hard and some people get restraining orders.

Anyways, Murray is missing easy throws just like every game. It's on tape, can't argue with facts. I would still rather have Murray than jimmy g so it's not about rival qbs. I give all qbs their props including mahomes rodgers and many more. I wish we had a wr half as good as Hopkins
[ Edited by elguapo on Nov 19, 2020 at 7:26 PM ]
Nov 20, 2020 at 11:40 AM
Originally posted by elguapo:
Right on Rath and it's funny his Montana won 2 of 4 of his SB's were without Rice Taylor Rathman Jones . There's no remembering when making an idiotic post that defies all logic and reason like those that prove only my point. Some people just try too hard and some people get restraining orders.

Anyways, Murray is missing easy throws just like every game. It's on tape, can't argue with facts. I would still rather have Murray than jimmy g so it's not about rival qbs. I give all qbs their props including mahomes rodgers and many more. I wish we had a wr half as good as Hopkins

Murray I think is pretty good.

His game mirrors Wilson a lot, and thus against top defenses he's not beating them over the top much.

We limited him well last year, and he didn't really go off on the 49ers this year. He does ok, but trust me, neither him nor Wilson frighten me like playing 2011 prime Brees.

My god, we needed everything in the world to go our way to win that game, got it, and still nearly lost.

That's the issue I have with Wilson and Murray, and even to an extent Mahomes. They work very well for this modern NFL, but prime 2007 Brady/2011 Brees/2013 Peyton Manning none of them are. Mobility is great but always robs you of having to earn it 100% the way the other guys have had to. Peewee to college, killing guys with your legs is hard to shake off.

It took Wilson several years to become a "real QB", and I figure it will take Murray some time too. Luckily for them, the league is making it easy for guys like them to succeed.

People act like these mobile talents never existed before. Randall Cunningham would have won a Super Bowl or two with the modern game.
[ Edited by JTsBiggestFan on Nov 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM ]
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