Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by NYniner85:
40 snaps on Sunday and had 29 pass rushing attempts with one QB hit. Sheldon Day played better than him with half the snaps.

Buckner had more with 0 hits.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
He'd be far better suited for 3T given his get-off and requirements of that position but this 2i/1T couldn't be worse. He can get off but not hold the POA/LOS for long esp. much against 2. Buckner is far better suited for that role now. But yeah, he can't ever seem to do much after the explosion at the snap.

And #SaleHappens

That's the thing. You want the 2i penetrating, not holding the point. That's why Solly, at least on paper, should be a good candidate for that role.

I kept an eye on him at the game, and the first half his plays when he was at nose were typically really good. It's the second half of the play where he stinks. And if you don't finish the second half of your plays, you go unnoticed. Period.

I see the same thing you're seeing. And I really think it's because after that initial explosion, physics takes over and his bodyweight is simply not enough to withstand the weight/strength of the C/G combo blocks he's trying to take on. His only hope for a future in this league is to bulk up and be a run stopping DT. Perhaps he'll slowly get better at pass rush moves but it's just not his forte.

He really would have been the perfect DT 15-20 years ago.

"Withstand?" What are we talking about here? Thomas is the best player on the team at the point vs. the run and one of the best in the NFL in that area. What he can't do is bend it to the QB in pass rushing situations, which is especially pronounced when he's at DE.

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
He'd be far better suited for 3T given his get-off and requirements of that position but this 2i/1T couldn't be worse. He can get off but not hold the POA/LOS for long esp. much against 2. Buckner is far better suited for that role now. But yeah, he can't ever seem to do much after the explosion at the snap.

And #SaleHappens

That's the thing. You want the 2i penetrating, not holding the point. That's why Solly, at least on paper, should be a good candidate for that role.

I kept an eye on him at the game, and the first half his plays when he was at nose were typically really good. It's the second half of the play where he stinks. And if you don't finish the second half of your plays, you go unnoticed. Period.

I see the same thing you're seeing. And I really think it's because after that initial explosion, physics takes over and his bodyweight is simply not enough to withstand the weight/strength of the C/G combo blocks he's trying to take on. His only hope for a future in this league is to bulk up and be a run stopping DT. Perhaps he'll slowly get better at pass rush moves but it's just not his forte.

He really would have been the perfect DT 15-20 years ago.

"Withstand?" What are we talking about here? Thomas is the best player on the team at the point vs. the run and one of the best in the NFL in that area. What he can't do is bend it to the QB in pass rushing situations, which is especially pronounced when he's at DE.

Mr. Thomas, we've all agreed that his get off is elite, and he resets the LOS. But he doesn't/can't hold it. Again, it's physics, and he gets moved out of the way consistently. If he added 20-30 pounds, it would help him immensely. Even you agree he shouldn't be playing outside, so why would he try and stay lean? He needs that extra beef.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

40 snaps on Sunday and had 29 pass rushing attempts with one QB hit. Sheldon Day played better than him with half the snaps.

Damn, for some stupid reason I still can't give up on him.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Mr. Thomas, we've all agreed that his get off is elite, and he resets the LOS. But he doesn't/can't hold it. Again, it's physics, and he gets moved out of the way consistently. If he added 20-30 pounds, it would help him immensely. Even you agree he shouldn't be playing outside, so why would he try and stay lean? He needs that extra beef.

No, that's not physics at all. An object at rest has zero force. Go stand by your parked car, put your hands on it, and see if it moves you backwards.

Secondly, there was not a single play in this game where Thomas gave an inch of ground against the run. Like, you people are literally just making stuff up, and it's ridiculous.

WATCH. THE. FREAKING. GAMES.

https://www.nflfullhd.com/page/13/

And he should stay lean so that he can stay fast enough to chase down ball carriers, as he did when he chased Adrian Peterson down to the right sideline from the LDT position after Buckner (as usual) failed to maintain his gap.

For example, here's the first run of the game.



You see that blue line? That's the line of scrimmage. He completely stalemated 6-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack on this play.

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Mr. Thomas, we've all agreed that his get off is elite, and he resets the LOS. But he doesn't/can't hold it. Again, it's physics, and he gets moved out of the way consistently. If he added 20-30 pounds, it would help him immensely. Even you agree he shouldn't be playing outside, so why would he try and stay lean? He needs that extra beef.

No, that's not physics at all. An object at rest has zero force. Go stand by your parked car, put your hands on it, and see if it moves you backwards.

Secondly, there was not a single play in this game where Thomas gave an inch of ground against the run. Like, you people are literally just making stuff up, and it's ridiculous.

WATCH. THE. FREAKING. GAMES.

https://www.nflfullhd.com/page/13/

And he should stay lean so that he can stay fast enough to chase down ball carriers, as he did when he chased Adrian Peterson down to the right sideline from the LDT position after Buckner (as usual) failed to maintain his gap.

What objects on the DL or OL are "at rest" during a play? Come on, man. You can't be serious. By your logic, a DT could weight 100 pounds as long as he had Thomas' strength, and it wouldn't matter? That's just crazy talk. His strength and explosion are what allow him to win the snap and initial burst. His lack of size is why he gets moved off his spot as frequently as he does. He's simply not a disruptive force inside on a consistent basis.

I watch every game, I watch all of the games. Look at my post history in here, I've defended Thomas as much as anyone (other than you of course). He's not getting it done, man.

I don't care if my DT's chase down RB's down field. Those are nice effort plays but they don't make up for doing next to nothing inside. I love his heart and character, I'm rooting for the guy. But right now his tweener body is holding him back.

This thread just got interesting!

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

He'd be far better suited for 3T given his get-off and requirements of that position but this 2i/1T couldn't be worse. He can get off but not hold the POA/LOS for long esp. much against 2. Buckner is far better suited for that role now. But yeah, he can't ever seem to do much after the explosion at the snap.

And #SaleHappens

That's the thing. You want the 2i penetrating, not holding the point. That's why Solly, at least on paper, should be a good candidate for that role.

I kept an eye on him at the game, and the first half his plays when he was at nose were typically really good. It's the second half of the play where he stinks. And if you don't finish the second half of your plays, you go unnoticed. Period.

You're right. I forgot myself that 2i in this W9 is a gap attacker. Closing seems to be an issue with everyone right now. Are you seeing anything specific happen even when he does win at the snap? That second half?

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Mr. Thomas, we've all agreed that his get off is elite, and he resets the LOS. But he doesn't/can't hold it. Again, it's physics, and he gets moved out of the way consistently. If he added 20-30 pounds, it would help him immensely. Even you agree he shouldn't be playing outside, so why would he try and stay lean? He needs that extra beef.

No, that's not physics at all. An object at rest has zero force. Go stand by your parked car, put your hands on it, and see if it moves you backwards.

Secondly, there was not a single play in this game where Thomas gave an inch of ground against the run. Like, you people are literally just making stuff up, and it's ridiculous.

WATCH. THE. FREAKING. GAMES.

https://www.nflfullhd.com/page/13/

And he should stay lean so that he can stay fast enough to chase down ball carriers, as he did when he chased Adrian Peterson down to the right sideline from the LDT position after Buckner (as usual) failed to maintain his gap.

What objects on the DL or OL are "at rest" during a play? Come on, man. You can't be serious. By your logic, a DT could weight 100 pounds as long as he had Thomas' strength, and it wouldn't matter? That's just crazy talk. His strength and explosion are what allow him to win the snap and initial burst. His lack of size is why he gets moved off his spot as frequently as he does. He's simply not a disruptive force inside on a consistent basis.

I watch every game, I watch all of the games. Look at my post history in here, I've defended Thomas as much as anyone (other than you of course). He's not getting it done, man.

I don't care if my DT's chase down RB's down field. Those are nice effort plays but they don't make up for doing next to nothing inside. I love his heart and character, I'm rooting for the guy. But right now his tweener body is holding him back.

You just said Thomas was winning initially, getting off the ball first and resetting the line of scrimmage. That means he's making contact with the offensive lineman when said lineman has no forward momentum. In other words, he has no force. F = M X A. Zero acceleration, zero force. His weight is a non issue at that point. Now the force has to come from the muscles.

Nobody 100 pounds has Thomas's strength. If they did, then they would lose some of the force that Thomas's added weight provides. In order for an offensive lineman to move something, they must be able to apply more force (with their leg muscles, generally) than the force of the opponent.

And once again, he doesn't get moved. Not one on one, anyway. With double teams, everybody gets moved unless they shoot the gap. The key in those situations is to keep the post blocker from peeling off on the linebacker (that's what linebackers are there for, aside from playing their own gap). And Thomas does this better than anyone else on the team as well.

This "moved off his spot" garbage is made up nonsense from people who clearly aren't watching. I have shown this in this thread time and again. BUCKNER is the one who can't anchor at the point or occupy the double team (because he lacks strength and he's a horrible leverage player with his NBA power forward height).

Two of the three biggest runs allowed in this game were Buckner's fault (the other was an outside run that was on D.J. Reed and Fred Warner...this team has struggled to stop outside runs for a while now).

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Mr. Thomas, we've all agreed that his get off is elite, and he resets the LOS. But he doesn't/can't hold it. Again, it's physics, and he gets moved out of the way consistently. If he added 20-30 pounds, it would help him immensely. Even you agree he shouldn't be playing outside, so why would he try and stay lean? He needs that extra beef.

No, that's not physics at all. An object at rest has zero force. Go stand by your parked car, put your hands on it, and see if it moves you backwards.

Secondly, there was not a single play in this game where Thomas gave an inch of ground against the run. Like, you people are literally just making stuff up, and it's ridiculous.

WATCH. THE. FREAKING. GAMES.

https://www.nflfullhd.com/page/13/

And he should stay lean so that he can stay fast enough to chase down ball carriers, as he did when he chased Adrian Peterson down to the right sideline from the LDT position after Buckner (as usual) failed to maintain his gap.

What objects on the DL or OL are "at rest" during a play? Come on, man. You can't be serious. By your logic, a DT could weight 100 pounds as long as he had Thomas' strength, and it wouldn't matter? That's just crazy talk. His strength and explosion are what allow him to win the snap and initial burst. His lack of size is why he gets moved off his spot as frequently as he does. He's simply not a disruptive force inside on a consistent basis.

I watch every game, I watch all of the games. Look at my post history in here, I've defended Thomas as much as anyone (other than you of course). He's not getting it done, man.

I don't care if my DT's chase down RB's down field. Those are nice effort plays but they don't make up for doing next to nothing inside. I love his heart and character, I'm rooting for the guy. But right now his tweener body is holding him back.

You just said Thomas was winning initially, getting off the ball first and resetting the line of scrimmage. That means he's making contact with the offensive lineman when said lineman has no forward momentum. In other words, he has no force. F = M X A. Zero acceleration, zero force. His weight is a non issue at that point. Now the force has to come from the muscles.

Nobody 100 pounds has Thomas's strength. If they did, then they would lose some of the force that Thomas's added weight provides. In order for an offensive lineman to move something, they must be able to apply more force (with their leg muscles, generally) than the force of the opponent.

And once again, he doesn't get moved. Not one on one, anyway. With double teams, everybody gets moved unless they shoot the gap. The key in those situations is to keep the post blocker from peeling off on the linebacker (that's what linebackers are there for, aside from playing their own gap). And Thomas does this better than anyone else on the team as well.

This "moved off his spot" garbage is made up nonsense from people who clearly aren't watching. I have shown this in this thread time and again. BUCKNER is the one who can't anchor at the point or occupy the double team (because he lacks strength and he's a horrible leverage player with his NBA power forward height).

Two of the three biggest runs allowed in this game were Buckner's fault (the other was an outside run that was on D.J. Reed and Fred Warner...this team has struggled to stop outside runs for a while now).

K.

3rd pro bowl in a row for solly

Every running play with Thomas at DT:

https://i.imgur.com/vB9fjRX.jpg

Rushing play 1, stalemates Alex Mack. Gain of 1.

https://i.imgur.com/NhD6zKX.jpg

End around.

https://i.imgur.com/V4QARFy.jpg

Draw play on 2nd and 9. Everyone thinks it's pass. Draws are a pain in the ass to defend. Gain of 5.

https://i.imgur.com/AbwRkAN.jpg

Play run away from Thomas, who got another outstanding jump off the snap and pursues from the backside. Teams plays this one well and stops Freeman for a loss.

https://i.imgur.com/GGkkZP7.jpg

What I love about this play is the WR blocks down on Bosa, showing how silly Waterbear's inclusion of Thomas at DE being blocked by a WR on an outside run is. Biggest run allowed of the day - 16 yards. Reid gets sucked inside and Warner gets successfully cut blocked setting this up.

https://i.imgur.com/nUPoRTJ.jpg

Thomas has Mack going backwards here while shutting off his gap. Buckner can't quite sustain holding the double team, springing an 8 yard run here. At least this time Buckner gave it a respectable effort.

https://i.imgur.com/Vk0tAIV.jpg

Cut block this time. Thomas manages to stay on his feet and pursues from the backside on a play run away from him. Comes up hobbled towards the end. Played decently but it's 2nd and 2. Gain of about 2 and a 1st.

This is good people are starting to see that Solly and dj jones together, are better inside than Buckner... they should have traded buckner last offseason when his value was at the absolute peak they said it was crazy talk but now everyone gets it...

^^ wtf