Solomon Thomas, DT

It's not all about your technique, it's also about the technique of the guys you're going up against.

There is a reason OTs are playing where they are and Guard and Centers playing inside. It's why you have the typical measurements and athletic ability for each position.

Thomas' athletic ability is something guards and centers don't typically see inside. It's something OTs see pretty often. So him playing a position he's not familiar with vs guys who are used to big time athletes/speed rushers nullifies a lot of what made him a big prospect.

Playing the kid where he's comfortable and doesn't have to think too much while also giving him the athletic advantage vs guys who aren't used to facing guys with those talents as often is the way to go.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

You can have the best technique in the world, but if you are in a new position you've not played in - you are going to*think* too much and play slow. I think that's what Mr. '85 was trying to say.

Thomas simply doesn't have the skill set to win vs OTs. He's an interior rusher....don't think he's a pro-bowler or anything, but he should have more success playing inside.

I know we are going in circles on this, but one of the reasons that was said by many on here as to why he was a good pick was his versatility to play outside and inside. He was compared many times to Michael Bennett, and I was saying repeatedly that was a bad comp.

The box will become smaller and smaller until he's off the team IMO. But don't listen to the guy who watched him all throughout his college career at Stanford.

He has no excuses this year. If he doesn't produce, I say we explore trading him immediately.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I know we are going in circles on this, but one of the reasons that was said by many on here as to why he was a good pick was his versatility to play outside and inside. He was compared many times to Michael Bennett, and I was saying repeatedly that was a bad comp.

The box will become smaller and smaller until he's off the team IMO. But don't listen to the guy who watched him all throughout his college career at Stanford.

He has no excuses this year. If he doesn't produce, I say we explore trading him immediately.

How about we give him a yr at the position he should have been at the entire time? Look, the guy got placed on the outside because we had no DEs. He drew the short straw. He's an interior, a DT, not a DE. Before going nutty on the guy who did go thru a major family tragedy last yr, plus he was played out of position, thru no fault of his own....let's all settle down and watch what he does on the interior....his position.

My guess is you all are going to be asking , "jeez, what happened to Solomon? He's playing lites out this yr." And the reasons will be:
1) he is finally playing at the position he was supposed to be playing, and

2) he will be playing next to Dee and Buck plus Bosa on the other end. You really don't expect him to do well there? I expect him to do splendid between two all pros with a 3rd one down the line...plus a pair of stud LBs to boot. So just hold your horses and let's see what goes down.

Paciencia....patience

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I know we are going in circles on this, but one of the reasons that was said by many on here as to why he was a good pick was his versatility to play outside and inside. He was compared many times to Michael Bennett, and I was saying repeatedly that was a bad comp.

The box will become smaller and smaller until he's off the team IMO. But don't listen to the guy who watched him all throughout his college career at Stanford.

He has no excuses this year. If he doesn't produce, I say we explore trading him immediately.

This is true...I was most likely one of those dudes that thought he would slide into that Bennett role.

I will ask you being a Stanford watcher, how often did you see him rushing off the edge there? I think you can agree that pass rushing inside isn't the same as off the edge.

I also agree, he's got a show some massive improvement this yr or we gotta chalk it up as a poor pick.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I know we are going in circles on this, but one of the reasons that was said by many on here as to why he was a good pick was his versatility to play outside and inside. He was compared many times to Michael Bennett, and I was saying repeatedly that was a bad comp.

The box will become smaller and smaller until he's off the team IMO. But don't listen to the guy who watched him all throughout his college career at Stanford.

He has no excuses this year. If he doesn't produce, I say we explore trading him immediately.

How about we give him a yr at the position he should have been at the entire time? Look, the guy got placed on the outside because we had no DEs. He drew the short straw. He's an interior, a DT, not a DE. Before going nutty on the guy who did go thru a major family tragedy last yr, plus he was played out of position, thru no fault of his own....let's all settle down and watch what he does on the interior....his position.

My guess is you all are going to be asking , "jeez, what happened to Solomon? He's playing lites out this yr." And the reasons will be:
1) he is finally playing at the position he was supposed to be playing, and

2) he will be playing next to Dee and Buck plus Bosa on the other end. You really don't expect him to do well there? I expect him to do splendid between two all pros with a 3rd one down the line...plus a pair of stud LBs to boot. So just hold your horses and let's see what goes down.

Paciencia....patience

I'll be the first one to admit if Thomas proves me wrong. I just think that there are a few on here who keep changing the bar to support Thomas no matter what.

My point was to say that the notion that he's ONLY an inside player was not widely accepted among his supporters, so we shouldn't act like that was the case.

I just hope the reverse is true if we see Thomas fail to produce that the people claiming Thomas can still be a "good" passrusher aren't lowering the bar to claim that he has been this upcoming season.

I know stats aren't everything, but if he can't get at least 7 sacks, as a smaller interior "passrusher", what's the point of keeping him long term?

^^^just out of curiosity , who do you think is going to get doubled....Solomon, or Buck, Dee, and.Bosa? I fully expect those 3 guys to be drawing all the doubles, and in fact am curious just how many blockers the Offenses keep in? Virtually without doubling Buck, Bosa and Dee the Os are going to get hammered. Where do you think that leaves Solly? My guess is he gets singled...unless they keep all but one receiver in to pass block...and that is a little hard to imagine.

By rights, he should have one helluva yr....but we'll see. I think he wins 1 v1

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'll be the first one to admit if Thomas proves me wrong. I just think that there are a few on here who keep changing the bar to support Thomas no matter what.

My point was to say that the notion that he's ONLY an inside player was not widely accepted among his supporters, so we shouldn't act like that was the case.

I just hope the reverse is true if we see Thomas fail to produce that the people claiming Thomas can still be a "good" passrusher aren't lowering the bar to claim that he has been this upcoming season.

I know stats aren't everything, but if he can't get at least 7 sacks, as a smaller interior "passrusher", what's the point of keeping him long term?

My original comments to all this were based off post#14797 and then random trying to do whatever it is he does (post #14805) in regards to his technique. IMO there's a difference between rushing the passer as a DT (vs IOL) and as a DE (vs OTs). Apparently random disagrees.

From what I remember, I wasn't one of the guys that thought he was gonna be a stud edge rusher. I thought he could play a role out there, but if the plan was to make him purely an edge rusher, that would be a mistake. I mean you can agree, that's basically what they did for almost two seasons. No excuses, but like I asked how often was he asked to rush off the edge in college? I remember Shaw stating after the pick that he's a interior pass rusher. I wish they would have let him play more of that....it's one of the issues I have with this FO/Coaching staff. Drafting players and moving them to roles they've ever done

IMO this has to be the yr. Time to show up or think about moving on. I'm pissed that IMHO they wasted so much time developing him at the wrong position. I also agree stats aren't everything...I want to see those "f**k the plays up" stats BUT I want to see some actual sacks as well.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

^^^just out of curiosity , who do you think is going to get doubled....Solomon, or Buck, Dee, and.Bosa? I fully expect those 3 guys to be drawing all the doubles, and in fact am curious just how many blockers the Offenses keep in? Virtually without doubling Buck, Bosa and Dee the Os are going to get hammered. Where do you think that leaves Solly? My guess is he gets singled...unless they keep all but one receiver in to pass block...and that is a little hard to imagine.

By rights, he should have one helluva yr....but we'll see. I think he wins 1 v1

I don't think there is any doubt that our DT2 will be the one single blocked. I just am puzzled as to why everyone is penciling in Thomas over AA or Blair as our second best passrushing at DT?

So I agree with you that there should be plenty of opportunities. Whoever gets that opportunity should have at least 6 sacks right in their lap. If Thomas starts there at can't exceed 6, I'm gonna be here saying I told you so.

I've been wrong before, I didn't like the MM pick, I thought Smelter would be a really good #2 WR, and I also pounded the table for Hurd so we will see how that turns out.

Thomas is a great person, but I judge players by what I see even when it goes against the Webzone's popular opinion. And I know that he's had more time and he's in the Webzones dog house, but AA would start for me as DT2 in nickel, not Thomas.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I'll be the first one to admit if Thomas proves me wrong. I just think that there are a few on here who keep changing the bar to support Thomas no matter what.

My point was to say that the notion that he's ONLY an inside player was not widely accepted among his supporters, so we shouldn't act like that was the case.

I just hope the reverse is true if we see Thomas fail to produce that the people claiming Thomas can still be a "good" passrusher aren't lowering the bar to claim that he has been this upcoming season.

I know stats aren't everything, but if he can't get at least 7 sacks, as a smaller interior "passrusher", what's the point of keeping him long term?

My original comments to all this were based off post#14797 and then random trying to do whatever it is he does (post #14805) in regards to his technique. IMO there's a difference between rushing the passer at a DT (vs IOL) and as a DE (vs OTs). Apparently random disagrees.

From what I remember, I wasn't one of the guys that thought he was gonna be a stud edge rusher. I thought he could play a role out there, but if the plan was to make him purely an edge rusher that would be a mistake. I mean you can agree, that's basically what they did for almost two seasons. No excuses, but like I asked how often was he asked to rush off the edge in college? I remember Shaw stating after the pick that he's a interior pass rusher. I wish they would have let him play more of that....it's one of the issues I have with this FO/Coaching staff. Drafting players and moving them to roles they've ever done

IMO this has to be the yr. Time to show up or think about moving on. I'm pissed that IMHO they wasted so much time developing him at the wrong position. I also agree stats aren't everything...I want to see those "f**k the plays up" stats BUT I want to see some actual sacks as well.

Ya I wasn't shaming you I was just trying to say that was part of the appeal to Thomas by even draft experts. He was supposed to be a versatile player. The fact that we know he can't play outside in passrush situations kind of diminishes his appeal.

There is a difference to rushing off the edge for sure. At the same time players who can rush from the inside usually don't always struggle from the outside. You put Buckner outside full time and he's not getting stonewalled every play. I know Buckner is a superstar , but you get my point.

It's not like Thomas was beating his man but since didn't keep contain so he missed sacks, he simply wasn't beating his man. In fact, I thought AA did that where him clearly being on the edge was the reason as to why he didn't record a sack, which is why I would love for someone to make a breakdown of him like they did Thomas. (Maybe I'll try to make one if I can find enough game footage).

It's not like I don't think Thomas is capable of producing, I expect 7+ sacks if he's given the opportunity. I just haven't seen that he can do it so far. And I question people who say that he has shown that ability so far.

It's obvious by now that when it comes to Thomas people fall into 2 camps. One feels he hasn't played up to his lofty draft position and he's a bust. The other feels that the jury is still out given what he has gone thru last year with his sister and being moved all over the place during his 2 years here. He also missed nearly all of training camp his first year because of finals schedules at Stanford which probably delayed his progress. Put me in the one more shot camp. Nothing really to lose and he may turn out okay now that he won't be forced to play on the outside.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Ya I wasn't shaming you I was just trying to say that was part of the appeal to Thomas by even draft experts. He was supposed to be a versatile player. The fact that we know he can't play outside in passrush situations kind of diminishes his appeal.

There is a difference to rushing off the edge for sure. At the same time players who can rush from the inside usually don't always struggle from the outside. You put Buckner outside full time and he's not getting stonewalled every play. I know Buckner is a superstar , but you get my point.

It's not like Thomas was beating his man but since didn't keep contain so he missed sacks, he simply wasn't beating his man. In fact, I thought AA did that where him clearly being on the edge was the reason as to why he didn't record a sack, which is why I would love for someone to make a breakdown of him like they did Thomas. (Maybe I'll try to make one if I can find enough game footage).

It's not like I don't think Thomas is capable of producing, I expect 7+ sacks if he's given the opportunity. I just haven't seen that he can do it so far. And I question people who say that he has shown that ability so far.

no I gotcha...I got nothing to backup Thomas off the edge. it wasn't pretty. I'd like to see him inside more, might not ever be anything great BUT I do think if we're gonna get anything product from him it's inside.

I'd like to see a breakdown of AA. I really don't think he blows as much as everyone says, over drafted without question. One thing that sticks out in my mind from AA last yr was him getting owned by one of the Lion's TEs ( I think Toilolo actually) when he was trying to set the edge.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Ya I wasn't shaming you I was just trying to say that was part of the appeal to Thomas by even draft experts. He was supposed to be a versatile player. The fact that we know he can't play outside in passrush situations kind of diminishes his appeal.

There is a difference to rushing off the edge for sure. At the same time players who can rush from the inside usually don't always struggle from the outside. You put Buckner outside full time and he's not getting stonewalled every play. I know Buckner is a superstar , but you get my point.

It's not like Thomas was beating his man but since didn't keep contain so he missed sacks, he simply wasn't beating his man. In fact, I thought AA did that where him clearly being on the edge was the reason as to why he didn't record a sack, which is why I would love for someone to make a breakdown of him like they did Thomas. (Maybe I'll try to make one if I can find enough game footage).

It's not like I don't think Thomas is capable of producing, I expect 7+ sacks if he's given the opportunity. I just haven't seen that he can do it so far. And I question people who say that he has shown that ability so far.

no I gotcha...I got nothing to backup Thomas off the edge. it wasn't pretty. I'd like to see him inside more, might not ever be anything great BUT I do think if we're gonna get anything product from him it's inside.

I'd like to see a breakdown of AA. I really don't think he blows as much as everyone says, over drafted without question. One thing that sticks out in my mind from AA last yr was him getting owned by one of the Lion's TEs ( I think Toilolo actually) when he was trying to set the edge.

AA belongs in a 3-4 but I think he will be great this year if he stays healthy. I think he finally found his groove.

I remember that play with Toilolo and I'm a huge believer in him as well. I think he will be our TE2 and hopefully for a long time. Imo that would be the best possible thing for Kittle so we can use him as a WR more with Toilolo being the elite blocker that he is. He's also proof that I don't hate all former Stanford players lol.

If we somehow drafted Walker Little... I would die.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

AA belongs in a 3-4 but I think he will be great this year if he stays healthy. I think he finally found his groove.

I remember that play with Toilolo and I'm a huge believer in him as well. I think he will be our TE2 and hopefully for a long time. Imo that would be the best possible thing for Kittle so we can use him as a WR more with Toilolo being the elite blocker that he is. He's also proof that I don't hate all former Stanford players lol.

If we somehow drafted Walker Little... I would die.

Oh hell yeah! there's some quality OTs in the upcoming draft. Same at WR. (juedy is gonna be special).

Unfortunately and hopefully we won't be in a position to draft one of them lol.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

^^^just out of curiosity , who do you think is going to get doubled....Solomon, or Buck, Dee, and.Bosa? I fully expect those 3 guys to be drawing all the doubles, and in fact am curious just how many blockers the Offenses keep in? Virtually without doubling Buck, Bosa and Dee the Os are going to get hammered. Where do you think that leaves Solly? My guess is he gets singled...unless they keep all but one receiver in to pass block...and that is a little hard to imagine.

By rights, he should have one helluva yr....but we'll see. I think he wins 1 v1

I don't think there is any doubt that our DT2 will be the one single blocked. I just am puzzled as to why everyone is penciling in Thomas over AA or Blair as our second best passrushing at DT?

So I agree with you that there should be plenty of opportunities. Whoever gets that opportunity should have at least 6 sacks right in their lap. If Thomas starts there at can't exceed 6, I'm gonna be here saying I told you so.

I've been wrong before, I didn't like the MM pick, I thought Smelter would be a really good #2 WR, and I also pounded the table for Hurd so we will see how that turns out.

Thomas is a great person, but I judge players by what I see even when it goes against the Webzone's popular opinion. And I know that he's had more time and he's in the Webzones dog house, but AA would start for me as DT2 in nickel, not Thomas.

Well, i'm Already on record as predicting AA has a great yr also. Not knowing how they are going to be used, despite what has been said about moving Solly inside, that could be a game changer. REason for that would be injury or failure to heal with Dee or Bosa.
As long as those two guys , and Blair too, are used where they belong, how can they NOT do well on a DL of Bosa, Buck and Ford.?

One thing the coaching staff did do well last yr with the DL was rotate guys in and out. Not so sure how that works with Dee and Bosa. For interiors, fine, i see that. But will Dee and Bosa get a blow, or are the every D down guys. Frankly i am hoping so...because if either gets a rest, then we are back to having DTs play DE again. And we have proven beyond reasonable doubt ...that doesn't work.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well, i'm Already on record as predicting AA has a great yr also. Not knowing how they are going to be used, despite what has been said about moving Solly inside, that could be a game changer. REason for that would be injury or failure to heal with Dee or Bosa.
As long as those two guys , and Blair too, are used where they belong, how can they NOT do well on a DL of Bosa, Buck and Ford.?

What happens if AA/ST have 3 sacks a piece because they rotated snaps inside all yr? Would that make ST or AA a "bust"?