Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well, i'm Already on record as predicting AA has a great yr also. Not knowing how they are going to be used, despite what has been said about moving Solly inside, that could be a game changer. REason for that would be injury or failure to heal with Dee or Bosa.
As long as those two guys , and Blair too, are used where they belong, how can they NOT do well on a DL of Bosa, Buck and Ford.?

What happens if AA/ST have 3 sacks a piece because they rotated snaps inside all yr? Would that make ST or AA a "bust"?

Don't ask me, i wasnt' the one who posted that. As an aside, if their position doesn't get 6 sacks so what? If they are chasing the QB all over, do i care if they get 6 sacks? Nope. If they bring pressure and are where they are supposed to be , the sacks will come. But i'm Not counting them.

A better question would be, what if they each get six sacks? Then what? Well, then we acknowledge the great talent we have on the DL and go on our merry way. But the sacks will come. And with kocurek, i will be disappointed if our LBs aen't blitzing...at least some. Corner blitz, Too.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Don't ask me, i wasnt' the one who posted that. As an aside, if their position doesn't get 6 sacks so what? If they are chasing the QB all over, do i care if they get 6 sacks? Nope. If they bring pressure and are where they are supposed to be , the sacks will come. But i'm Not counting them.

A better question would be, what if they each get six sacks? Then what? Well, then we acknowledge the great talent we have on the DL and go on our merry way. But the sacks will come. And with kocurek, i will be disappointed if our LBs aen't blitzing...at least some. Corner blitz, Too.

Oh I know you didn't...more of a open to everyone question

For me the DT should be the guy "f**king up the play" and allowing our edge rushers (and others) to get those sacks...if they get them (like buck) then that's even more special.

I will say when you're draft a guy top 5 to play DT (which Solly really hasn't done yet) you do expect them to get to the QB more.

IMO, I think people don't realize how hard it is to sack the QB as a DT...most will agree Fletcher Cox is an all-pro DT and top 3 at his position, he's averaged 6.3 sacks per yr.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well, i'm Already on record as predicting AA has a great yr also. Not knowing how they are going to be used, despite what has been said about moving Solly inside, that could be a game changer. REason for that would be injury or failure to heal with Dee or Bosa.
As long as those two guys , and Blair too, are used where they belong, how can they NOT do well on a DL of Bosa, Buck and Ford.?

What happens if AA/ST have 3 sacks a piece because they rotated snaps inside all yr? Would that make ST or AA a "bust"?

Don't ask me, i wasnt' the one who posted that. As an aside, if their position doesn't get 6 sacks so what? If they are chasing the QB all over, do i care if they get 6 sacks? Nope. If they bring pressure and are where they are supposed to be , the sacks will come. But i'm Not counting them.

A better question would be, what if they each get six sacks? Then what? Well, then we acknowledge the great talent we have on the DL and go on our merry way. But the sacks will come. And with kocurek, i will be disappointed if our LBs aen't blitzing...at least some. Corner blitz, Too.

With that comment I was assuming that Thomas gets the majority of the snaps at DT. Clearly sacks aren't everything but like NY mentioned, if the #3 player in the draft can't get 6 sacks, there is seriously something wrong.

And I think Thomas will get a lot more snaps than AA because Lynch is tied to that pick unlike AA. We will see, but yes there is a scenario where Thomas does have another year of having a low sack total yet he plays at a much higher level.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well, i'm Already on record as predicting AA has a great yr also. Not knowing how they are going to be used, despite what has been said about moving Solly inside, that could be a game changer. REason for that would be injury or failure to heal with Dee or Bosa.
As long as those two guys , and Blair too, are used where they belong, how can they NOT do well on a DL of Bosa, Buck and Ford.?

What happens if AA/ST have 3 sacks a piece because they rotated snaps inside all yr? Would that make ST or AA a "bust"?

Don't ask me, i wasnt' the one who posted that. As an aside, if their position doesn't get 6 sacks so what? If they are chasing the QB all over, do i care if they get 6 sacks? Nope. If they bring pressure and are where they are supposed to be , the sacks will come. But i'm Not counting them.

A better question would be, what if they each get six sacks? Then what? Well, then we acknowledge the great talent we have on the DL and go on our merry way. But the sacks will come. And with kocurek, i will be disappointed if our LBs aen't blitzing...at least some. Corner blitz, Too.

With that comment I was assuming that Thomas gets the majority of the snaps at DT. Clearly sacks aren't everything but like NY mentioned, if the #3 player in the draft can't get 6 sacks, there is seriously something wrong.

And I think Thomas will get a lot more snaps than AA because Lynch is tied to that pick unlike AA. We will see, but yes there is a scenario where Thomas does have another year of having a low sack total yet he plays at a much higher level.

I'll be honest..,,the sheer immensity of the trade for Dee coupled with the drafting of Nick...i got no earthly idea what happens with the DL. I can imagine, but just have no idea what the DL does with those two studs plus Buck in the same DLine. Right now i am hoping Dee is healthy to start. If so, this could be the most fun D since 30+ yrs ago. Not that Justin and Aldon weren't fun to watch but we are talking about 3 guys here who can tear limbs off trees. And anybody lucky enough to play with them on that line...it ought to be one kick in the pants.

If our guys start healthy...and stay that way, i think we are going to have a DL nobody ever forgets, and that means us fans, and esp NFL QBs.

A better question than how ST or AA plays is ,How the heck is an O going to take on our 3 guys slated for all pros in the same yr? That is the one i am anxious to see. Whoever is in that 4th DL slot...he is going to be one lucky dude.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
My guess is you all are going to be asking , "jeez, what happened to Solomon? He's playing lites out this yr." And the reasons will be:
1) he is finally playing at the position he was supposed to be playing, and

2) he will be playing next to Dee and Buck plus Bosa on the other end. You really don't expect him to do well there? I expect him to do splendid between two all pros with a 3rd one down the line...plus a pair of stud LBs to boot. So just hold your horses and let's see what goes down.

Wouldn't be too surprising to see a guy picked #3 overall to be playing well a couple years later.

Simply being out of position is a highly unlikely reason for underperformance last year, however.

You see a guy that should stay inside,....I see a guy that should be able to bounce around the line should the light ever come on; (at least) 2 pass rushers ahead of him depth-wise should aid that process, if it's to ever happen..

Just see things differently (hopefully that's cool?),...doesn't mean we all dont want him to do well on our team.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
IMO there's a difference between rushing the passer as a DT (vs IOL) and as a DE (vs OTs). Apparently random disagrees.

How is it I disagree when the 1st sentence of my response said there are differences and there are similarities? Like it or not, the similarities (see the guy in front of you?? get passed him as quickly as possible!) far outweigh the differences. I'm not gonna pretend like asking someone we drafted to rush the passer has really been playing point guard the last couple of years instead of what we drafted him for,...and that therefore explains everything as to why he's been blocked so well by other teams.

It's not a "shock" that he hasnt put it together just yet either,...that's why the NFL Draft is like no other draft. Immense curiosity and college games to watch for all prospects, yet in still, there are virtually no guarantees. Given these things,... the digging and searching you guys seem to be doing is extremely unnecessary IMO.

I'm moreso with Water on this one. I'm simply not the type to keep watching the goalposts being moved for the sake of "supporting" an underperforming player. That doesn't get me any more excited to see what happens with a player,...nor does it calm my doubts about our inexperienced GM, and whether or not he knows what the heck he's doing @ that position.

Let's hope he can get passed his man this year,...and if he is more able to,....I'm 90% sure that the help he's now getting on the line (less weight on his shoulders),...the year removed from the sibling thing, another offseason under his belt, etc., will be the reasons for his heightened play should it happen,...not simply sliding over a spot or 2 (pretty much the only point I've been making on this subject, albeit in different ways since you've suggest it's not clear).

Originally posted by random49er:

How is it I disagree when the 1st sentence of my response said there are differences and there are similarities? Like it or not, the similarities (see the guy in front of you?? get passed him as quickly as possible!) far outweigh the differences. I'm not gonna pretend like asking someone drafted to rush the passer has been playing point guard the last couple of years instead of what we drafted him for,...and that explains everything as to why he's been blocked so well.

It's not a "shock" that he hasnt put it together just yet either,...that's why the NFL Draft is like no other. There are virtually no guarantees,...so the digging and searching you guys seem to be doing is extremely unnecessary IMO.

I'm moreso with Water on this one. I'm simply not the type to keep watching the goalposts being moved for the sake of "supporting" an underperforming player. That doesn't get me any more excited to see what happens with a player,...nor does it calm my doubts about our inexperienced GM, and whether or not he knows what the heck he's doing @ that position.

I asked 60 what position he was referring too in regards to ST having s**tty technique...you decide to answer the question for him.

Nowhere in my comments was I moving the goalposts. You're right it's not a shock he's hasn't played well, he was never an outside edge rusher in college... like I said it was painfully obvious and he simply doesn't have the skill set to beat OTs like you want from a DE. That's been one of my biggest issues with this FO/coaching staff, drafting players and moving them from where they played in college.

He was learning a new position, which does involve new techniques....I hope they push him back inside in pass situations because we have a much better chance at gaining something positive out of him by doing that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I asked 60 what position he was referring too in regards to ST having s**tty technique...you decide to answer the question for him.

Interesting take. Here's what I saw...

Originally posted by 60sFan:
Thomas's technique sucks. He plays square up on his opponent's chest. He used to overpower Guys in college. Not the same in the NFL.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Are we talking off the edge? Because if so I agree. He doesn't belong out there.

The guy referred to a player and how well he plays,...not a position and how he's out of place. I dont think the position discussion is required before we can say that a guy simply hasnt been rushing the passer well thus far.

So you forcing a narrative that a poster didnt say or imply, then agreeing with it on your own is why I simply brought things back towards the center (i.e., 60s clearly said what 60s said as to why he's not being successful; nothing more). No big deal, right?

I'm not even saying I agree with him,...just not the biggest fan of seeing words being changed up like we're under pressure working for the press or something.

Don't feel pressured!! That should be our opposing QBs' responsibility this fall!!

Originally posted by random49er:

Interesting take. Here's what I saw...

Originally posted by 60sFan:

Thomas's technique sucks. He plays square up on his opponent's chest. He used to overpower Guys in college. Not the same in the NFL.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Are we talking off the edge? Because if so I agree. He doesn't belong out there.

The guy referred to a player and how well he plays,...not a position and how he's out of place. I dont think the position discussion is required before we can say that a guy simply hasnt been rushing the passer well thus far.

So you forcing a narrative then agreeing with it on your own is why I simply brought things back towards the center (i.e., 60s said what 60s said; nothing more).

I'm not even saying I agree with him,...just not the biggest fan of seeing words being changed up like we're under pressure working for the press or something.

When's he's played off the edge 90% of his snaps so far in his career and DOES have poor technique out there (I saw plenty of him having poor pad-level and basically running into the tackle with no plan) I think it's fair to ask him if that's where he's talking about (because I agree I saw the same). Imo I thought towards the end of last season when he got more snaps inside he looked more comfortable....I think you're just trying to find something that isn't there man.

I asked a question, I didn't twist anything. No sense in trying to start a debate that's not there.

It's all good

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I think you're just trying to find something that isn't there man.

I asked a question, I didn't twist anything. No sense in trying to start a debate that's not there.

I simply clarified, as there's nothing to debate regarding what someone said or didnt say. But like Waterbear and others have said,..we don't need to be overly defensive of the guy and let's hope we hear some good news on how he's picking it up this year.

Originally posted by random49er:

I simply clarified, as there's nothing to debate regarding what someone said. But like Waterbear and others have said,..we don't need to be overly defensive of the guy and let's hope we hear some good news on how he's picking it up this year.

I asked someone a question, adding context doesn't always equal defending.

I hope he gets put in a position to succeed because imo he hasn't thus far....and if that doesn't work they need to move on. s**tty but it happens.

Yeah, but can he play safety

Even if Gire

Let's be honest, we don't know what we have with Solly. I honestly never want to see him lining up beyond the 4T on either side, unless it is a stunt. They never did to Stubby or BY what they have done to Solly in the first 2 years (play them at DE). We had DEs back then and plenty them -- guys like Haley, Barker, Kevin Greene, San Francisco's favorite Kevin f*gan, Chris Doleman, Charles Mann, Tim Harris, f***ing Richard Dent for sake. We even brought in Rickey Jackson.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

My original comments to all this were based off post#14797 and then random trying to do whatever it is he does (post #14805) in regards to his technique. IMO there's a difference between rushing the passer as a DT (vs IOL) and as a DE (vs OTs). Apparently random disagrees.

From what I remember, I wasn't one of the guys that thought he was gonna be a stud edge rusher. I thought he could play a role out there, but if the plan was to make him purely an edge rusher, that would be a mistake. I mean you can agree, that's basically what they did for almost two seasons. No excuses, but like I asked how often was he asked to rush off the edge in college? I remember Shaw stating after the pick that he's a interior pass rusher. I wish they would have let him play more of that....it's one of the issues I have with this FO/Coaching staff. Drafting players and moving them to roles they've ever done

IMO this has to be the yr. Time to show up or think about moving on. I'm pissed that IMHO they wasted so much time developing him at the wrong position. I also agree stats aren't everything...I want to see those "f**k the plays up" stats BUT I want to see some actual sacks as well.

That may be one reason Zgonina was fired.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

You can have the best technique in the world, but if you are in a new position you've not played in - you are going to*think* too much and play slow. I think that's what Mr. '85 was trying to say.

Dunno bruh....He was doing 30 on Out Of Position Rd....whereas you just took a left on New Position St.

Might wanna re-check the Excuse Map and I'm sure you guys will meet up by mid-day.

And your point is....?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

You can have the best technique in the world, but if you are in a new position you've not played in - you are going to*think* too much and play slow. I think that's what Mr. '85 was trying to say.

Thomas simply doesn't have the skill set to win vs OTs. He's an interior rusher....don't think he's a pro-bowler or anything, but he should have more success playing inside.

No I understand. But my point was that even *if* he had the skill set and talent to play LEO - putting him in a position he didnt play much is going to slow him down, enough to where he becomes ineffective.

Having said that, he went through some emotional challenges last year and Zgonina probably had a big role in his lack of production that's why Kocurek took Zgoninas place.