QB CJ Beathard - signs with Jacksonville

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

maybe knowing the concept vs the coverage

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kap should be the last to be blamed. He was a very raw QB who was following HaRoman instructions. Hell, he even would have run in that TD as well. The kid played his heart out.

Agree. Its not kaps fault we never should have put the franchise on the shoulders of a pistol run and gun maniac in college who never played a snap of pocket qb in his four years in the desert.

It was a smoke and mirrors move that caught NFL defenses off guard and just about worked.

But to 1) not recognize what the Ravens were obviously doing (0 blitzing a young QB and making him beat them) and 2) not call a T.O. and say to the kid, "OK, obviously, they are going to bring the house here...look to Crabtree. But if he looks covered immediately go to Vernon Davis in the middle back of the end zone. He should completely be uncovered. If somehow they don't bring the house, 3 seconds and throw it away... we'll try again on the next down."...was just wrong, and really, coaching 101.

This subtle coaching difference is the difference between Bill Walsh and Joe Montana talking right before The Catch on a T.O. called by Bill and getting his QB prepared and us not winning 6.

It's that simple.

The play that JH/Roman drew up was not the problem...and Cosell said as much when on KNBR after the SB. Said the plays drawn up were perfect if Kaep had not audibled out

https://www.google.com/amp/goldengatesports.com/2013/02/07/super-bowl-xlvii-why-kaepernick-threw-to-crabtree-on-final-drive/amp/
After the game, Kaepernick told reporters that he called an audible for a fade to Crabtree on fourth-and-goal. On the play, Crabtree appeared to be held by Ravens' safety Jimmy Smith, but the penalty was never called and the pass fell incomplete.

Thanks for that!

But I was talking about the entire series as a microcosm of our overall offensive issues, not just the final nail in the coffin play. Everybody in the stadium, esp. the Ravens, knew the ball was going to Crabtree by that point. That's the time to educate your green QB. That said, I don't know what the primary, secondary, etc. receiver was or whether it was a run play changed to a pass, from one passing play to another, from one primary receiver to another?

That said, I liked the QB keeper on that series...hated not having an easy hot route and certainly, like our first play of the game, our QB/player was not prepared.

I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

Also, remember, the HC can't call a timeout down in the RZ. Granted, he prob should've radio'd in to CK to call one, but coaches aren't supposed to cross the 25 yard line. So, with the SJ 60 ft away he can't call a timeout.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

You'd have to ask Cosell. Only repeating what he said. I don't think VDs route changed, only Kaeps decision to throw the fade to Crabtree. The way he explained it was Roman drew up the perfect play and Kaep went elsewhere

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

Yeah, something is missing here. But very much appreciate Hoov bringing that to the table. Painful time.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

You'd have to ask Cosell. Only repeating what he said. I don't think VDs route changed, only Kaeps decision to throw the fade to Crabtree. The way he explained it was Roman drew up the perfect play and Kaep went elsewhere

And if that was the case, 100% agree. VD should have been the primary receiver in the middle of the EZ on a 0 blitz. Simple, easy throw.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

You'd have to ask Cosell. Only repeating what he said. I don't think VDs route changed, only Kaeps decision to throw the fade to Crabtree. The way he explained it was Roman drew up the perfect play and Kaep went elsewhere

Maybe I just don't understand. Is it that Kap audibled out of the play that was originally called, or did he run the same play but threw it to a different WR? If he didn't change the play, then I disagree with Cossell because VD was not open.

edit: just so it hurts, there was only one play where there was a wide open WR and that was on 2nd down when Moss was wide open waving his arm in the air as the backside WR.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

How can he say that VD was open on the original play if that play was not run?

You'd have to ask Cosell. Only repeating what he said. I don't think VDs route changed, only Kaeps decision to throw the fade to Crabtree. The way he explained it was Roman drew up the perfect play and Kaep went elsewhere

Maybe I just don't understand. Is it that Kap audibled out of the play that was originally called, or did he run the same play but threw it to a different WR? If he didn't change the play, then I disagree with Cossell because VD was not open.

edit: just so it hurts, there was only one play where there was a wide open WR and that was on 2nd down when Moss was wide open waving his arm in the air as the backside WR.

I can't with 100% certainty say, as this was 5 years ago however I took it as he just opted to keep the routes the same but go to Crabtree...but I could be wrong. However I believe you are right about VD. I think the play in which he talked about VD being wide open was on 3rd down (see below), which makes me think he meant that he called an audible on the entire play itself on 4th. It's a painful time that I have tried to block out , but I do distinctly remember him saying Kaep called more than 1 audible on that goal line series

^^

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I can't with 100% certainty say, as this was 5 years ago however I took it as he just opted to keep the routes the same but go to Crabtree...but I could be wrong. However I believe you are right about VD. I think the play in which he talked about VD being wide open was on 3rd down (see below), which makes me think he meant that he called an audible on the entire play itself on 4th. It's a painful time that I have tried to block out , but I do distinctly remember him saying Kaep called more than 1 audible on that goal line series

What has always bothered me about that sequence beyond Gore not getting the ball was a play not being drawn up to simply toss it up to Moss and let him go up and get it.


You have a 6'4" receiver with a HOF resume and he has been eluded in his pursuit of a SB ring, why not trust him to make a play on the ball? Take advantage of his size. I could have better lived with Moss simply not being able to come down with it but you have to at least give him that chance.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

You'd have to ask Cosell. Only repeating what he said. I don't think VDs route changed, only Kaeps decision to throw the fade to Crabtree. The way he explained it was Roman drew up the perfect play and Kaep went elsewhere

And if that was the case, 100% agree. VD should have been the primary receiver in the middle of the EZ on a 0 blitz. Simple, easy throw.

See my response on next page Re: VD bring open. I think I was wrong and confusing 3rd and 4th down and which one he was wide open on so I am not sure who he was supposed to go to on 4th when he audibled to Crabtree

Well this certainly has been a pleasant trip down memory lane

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Well this certainly has been a pleasant trip down memory lane

The zone is pretty abusive sometimes.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

I can't with 100% certainty say, as this was 5 years ago however I took it as he just opted to keep the routes the same but go to Crabtree...but I could be wrong. However I believe you are right about VD. I think the play in which he talked about VD being wide open was on 3rd down (see below), which makes me think he meant that he called an audible on the entire play itself on 4th. It's a painful time that I have tried to block out , but I do distinctly remember him saying Kaep called more than 1 audible on that goal line series

What has always bothered me about that sequence beyond Gore not getting the ball was a play not being drawn up to simply toss it up to Moss and let him go up and get it.


You have a 6'4" receiver with a HOF resume and he has been eluded in his pursuit of a SB ring, why not trust him to make a play on the ball? Take advantage of his size. I could have better lived with Moss simply not being able to come down with it but you have to at least give him that chance.

Ok you son of b***hes You made me watch that sequence again. First down was a run. Second down was sprint RT option out of the gun. Third down, had crabs motion out of the backfield and run a flat route, VD ran a stop and so did moss. It kinda looks like a modified sticks concept. Fourth down appears to be a spacing concept. All other WRs but crabs ran a hook. VD looks like he kinda pushed off imo.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Kap should be the last to be blamed. He was a very raw QB who was following HaRoman instructions. Hell, he even would have run in that TD as well. The kid played his heart out.

Agree. Its not kaps fault we never should have put the franchise on the shoulders of a pistol run and gun maniac in college who never played a snap of pocket qb in his four years in the desert.

It was a smoke and mirrors move that caught NFL defenses off guard and just about worked.

But to 1) not recognize what the Ravens were obviously doing (0 blitzing a young QB and making him beat them) and 2) not call a T.O. and say to the kid, "OK, obviously, they are going to bring the house here...look to Crabtree. But if he looks covered immediately go to Vernon Davis in the middle back of the end zone. He should completely be uncovered. If somehow they don't bring the house, 3 seconds and throw it away... we'll try again on the next down."...was just wrong, and really, coaching 101.

This subtle coaching difference is the difference between Bill Walsh and Joe Montana talking right before The Catch on a T.O. called by Bill and getting his QB prepared and us not winning 6.

It's that simple.

The play that JH/Roman drew up was not the problem...and Cosell said as much when on KNBR after the SB. Said the plays drawn up were perfect if Kaep had not audibled out

https://www.google.com/amp/goldengatesports.com/2013/02/07/super-bowl-xlvii-why-kaepernick-threw-to-crabtree-on-final-drive/amp/
After the game, Kaepernick told reporters that he called an audible for a fade to Crabtree on fourth-and-goal. On the play, Crabtree appeared to be held by Ravens' safety Jimmy Smith, but the penalty was never called and the pass fell incomplete.

Thanks for that!

But I was talking about the entire series as a microcosm of our overall offensive issues, not just the final nail in the coffin play. Everybody in the stadium, esp. the Ravens, knew the ball was going to Crabtree by that point. That's the time to educate your green QB. That said, I don't know what the primary, secondary, etc. receiver was or whether it was a run play changed to a pass, from one passing play to another, from one primary receiver to another?

That said, I liked the QB keeper on that series...hated not having an easy hot route and certainly, like our first play of the game, our QB/player was not prepared.

I don't follow NC. The play was designed to VD. Kaep called an audible and they had no more TOs....so how was it up to the staff to educate him at that point about second and third options? Per Cosell, the play design had VD as the 1st option and he was open...Kaep elected to audible and go a different route...that's not on the coaching staff . That was my initial point of contention when you mentioned the staff should have been educating him. I was trying to show that Kaep was the one calling audibles

Good post.