QB CJ Beathard - signs with Jacksonville

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:

Well, if Beathard looks good and plays well if given a chance I'm not so sure that is true.

You're sort of cherry picking the 3rd round thing too. There have been other QBs who were pro bowlers selected far later. The round itself isn't all that relevant with QB play unless you're looking at the 1st/2nd. After that it's pretty random in distribution of success IIRC.

The odds get even worse the further down you go in the draft. People always point to the exceptions but not the 50 other guys who couldnt hack it at all. The 49ers bought themselves a lottery ticket and are hoping they can win big. Odds are that Beathard winds up like a Hoyer type and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

We will see how well Shannahan evaluates QBs I guess. I kind of like what I see in Beathard.

Skill in evaluation is only a small part of it. Luck is a HUGE part of it, especially later on in the draft. If the Patriots had any inkling of what Tom Brady could be they wouldnt have passed on him twice in the 6th round alone.


Bill Walsh was right on Montana and Young but felt Giovanni Carmazzi could turn into an NFL starter and urged the Colts to pass on Peyton Manning.


Ron Wolf, one of the premier talent evaluators of all time has talked extensively about how much finding a QB is equal parts good scouting, coaching and scheme plus a whole lot of luck.

Its a crapshoot but I think its a moot point overall. Drafting Beathard to me means the 49ers think there is a very good shot of Cousins being available and if he is I expect them to go all in on him with Beathard projecting as the long term backup.

Totally agree...CJ is nothing more than a developmental QB, something that all teams do. IF Kirk is available in 2018 they will go after him and should.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Well, if Beathard looks good and plays well if given a chance I'm not so sure that is true.

You're sort of cherry picking the 3rd round thing too. There have been other QBs who were pro bowlers selected far later. The round itself isn't all that relevant with QB play unless you're looking at the 1st/2nd. After that it's pretty random in distribution of success IIRC.

The odds get even worse the further down you go in the draft. People always point to the exceptions but not the 50 other guys who couldnt hack it at all. The 49ers bought themselves a lottery ticket and are hoping they can win big. Odds are that Beathard winds up like a Hoyer type and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

We will see how well Shannahan evaluates QBs I guess. I kind of like what I see in Beathard.

Skill in evaluation is only a small part of it. Luck is a HUGE part of it, especially later on in the draft. If the Patriots had any inkling of what Tom Brady could be they wouldnt have passed on him twice in the 6th round alone.

Bill Walsh was right on Montana and Young but felt Giovanni Carmazzi could turn into an NFL starter and urged the Colts to pass on Peyton Manning.

Ron Wolf, one of the premier talent evaluators of all time has talked extensively about how much finding a QB is equal parts good scouting, coaching and scheme plus a whole lot of luck.

Its a crapshoot but I think its a moot point overall. Drafting Beathard to me means the 49ers think there is a very good shot of Cousins being available and if he is I expect them to go all in on him with Beathard projecting as the long term backup.

I've always thought that speed is the biggest differential between college and the NFL. I mean the speed that these athletes react to situations is amazing. Specially at QB, the NFL windows are smaller and close quicker than in college. The DB's are smart and can try to fool the QB into thinking WR is open when it's really not. The defensive schemes are more complex. and so on...

Certain QB's can do it, and other's cant. Montana could do it, but Drunkenmiller couldn't. I bet Kyle and Lynch don't really know what any of these players (other than free agents that have played in the NFL) can do in a real NFL game. They can project what they might do, that's all they can do. Can CJ process the field faster and make that pro-jump to the NFL? But Nobody really knows for sure until they play.

I'm betting that Kyle knows what he is doing and - just like Harbaugh - and has developed some great QB's under his various tenures. Those facts give me confidence that at least CJ has the physical tools to play in the NFL, but mentally - who knows.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Well, if Beathard looks good and plays well if given a chance I'm not so sure that is true.

You're sort of cherry picking the 3rd round thing too. There have been other QBs who were pro bowlers selected far later. The round itself isn't all that relevant with QB play unless you're looking at the 1st/2nd. After that it's pretty random in distribution of success IIRC.

We will see how well Shannahan evaluates QBs I guess. I kind of like what I see in Beathard.

Personally, I think anybody who's been drafted - the coaches and the front office - have decided that they have the physical tools to at least play in the NFL. Otherwise, why draft them, when they can just pick them up as an undrafted free agent. I remember Jerry Rice once say that the jump from college to the NFL was 80% mental and 20% physical. I think what he meant was the difference in mentality. An example would be a guy like Justin Smith or Charles Haley, they were intense, disciplined, and workout warriors and studied the game intensely from an X's and O's point of view. Then you have guys may not work out, eat right, and keep in shape. They may not study the film as intensely. The smallest boo boo and they are in the rehab IR room. Guys that rely on talent and not have the work ethic.

I recently met up with Tracy Eaton, and he told me that he played with tremendous pain. His last season in the NFL, he said every tackle he made - dislocated his shoulders. I cannot imagine the pain - but he played through the pain. That's the kind of intensity that guys who make the NFL have. A lot of guys can't stand the pain of playing in the NFL.

Seems like an awful lot of chatter for a guy who hasn't taken a single snap in an NFL game. Shanahan pretty much said that they drafted him as a developmental QB, so let him develop and see what happens. Maybe then there will be something to talk about.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:

Well, if Beathard looks good and plays well if given a chance I'm not so sure that is true.

You're sort of cherry picking the 3rd round thing too. There have been other QBs who were pro bowlers selected far later. The round itself isn't all that relevant with QB play unless you're looking at the 1st/2nd. After that it's pretty random in distribution of success IIRC.

The odds get even worse the further down you go in the draft. People always point to the exceptions but not the 50 other guys who couldnt hack it at all. The 49ers bought themselves a lottery ticket and are hoping they can win big. Odds are that Beathard winds up like a Hoyer type and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

We will see how well Shannahan evaluates QBs I guess. I kind of like what I see in Beathard.

Skill in evaluation is only a small part of it. Luck is a HUGE part of it, especially later on in the draft. If the Patriots had any inkling of what Tom Brady could be they wouldnt have passed on him twice in the 6th round alone.


Bill Walsh was right on Montana and Young but felt Giovanni Carmazzi could turn into an NFL starter and urged the Colts to pass on Peyton Manning.


Ron Wolf, one of the premier talent evaluators of all time has talked extensively about how much finding a QB is equal parts good scouting, coaching and scheme plus a whole lot of luck.

Its a crapshoot but I think its a moot point overall. Drafting Beathard to me means the 49ers think there is a very good shot of Cousins being available and if he is I expect them to go all in on him with Beathard projecting as the long term backup.

Totally agree...CJ is nothing more than a developmental QB, something that all teams do. IF Kirk is available in 2018 they will go after him and should.

No question. I certainly can understand the excitement around Beathard; he's a great mold for this offense and Kyle will always put him in the best position to succeed and in two years, the offense will be fully installed, we'll have more talent and the players will be more proficient within the WCO, but his ceiling may be closer to Hoyer than Cousins (TBD).

That said, it's really up to Kyle and Beathard. The kid will be raised right and Kyle has the time, like he did with Kirk, to mold him over a couple/few years with no pressure and lower expectations commensurate his draft position.

Had they identified a QB in the first or second round, the media pressure to start him premature would be insane if we didn't acquire Kirk.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Evilgenius:

Well, if Beathard looks good and plays well if given a chance I'm not so sure that is true.

You're sort of cherry picking the 3rd round thing too. There have been other QBs who were pro bowlers selected far later. The round itself isn't all that relevant with QB play unless you're looking at the 1st/2nd. After that it's pretty random in distribution of success IIRC.

The odds get even worse the further down you go in the draft. People always point to the exceptions but not the 50 other guys who couldnt hack it at all. The 49ers bought themselves a lottery ticket and are hoping they can win big. Odds are that Beathard winds up like a Hoyer type and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

We will see how well Shannahan evaluates QBs I guess. I kind of like what I see in Beathard.

Skill in evaluation is only a small part of it. Luck is a HUGE part of it, especially later on in the draft. If the Patriots had any inkling of what Tom Brady could be they wouldnt have passed on him twice in the 6th round alone.


Bill Walsh was right on Montana and Young but felt Giovanni Carmazzi could turn into an NFL starter and urged the Colts to pass on Peyton Manning.


Ron Wolf, one of the premier talent evaluators of all time has talked extensively about how much finding a QB is equal parts good scouting, coaching and scheme plus a whole lot of luck.

Its a crapshoot but I think its a moot point overall. Drafting Beathard to me means the 49ers think there is a very good shot of Cousins being available and if he is I expect them to go all in on him with Beathard projecting as the long term backup.

Totally agree...CJ is nothing more than a developmental QB, something that all teams do. IF Kirk is available in 2018 they will go after him and should.

Yup. Lynch and Shanahan have six year deals. They knew they didn't HAVE to rush it this year, as far as finding a qb. CJ is a developmental​ prospect, nothing more or less. If Cousins is available next season, the 49ers will go all in. Usually where there's smoke there's fire. That has been the number one reported NFL subject this offseason from multiple outlets on the 49ers fascination with Cousins. When that many people are reporting on it, there's usually a sense of truth behind it.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No question. I certainly can understand the excitement around Beathard; he's a great mold for this offense and Kyle will always put him in the best position to succeed and in two years, the offense will be fully installed, we'll have more talent and the players will be more proficient within the WCO, but his ceiling may be closer to Hoyer than Cousins.

That said, it's really up to Kyle and Beathard. The kid will be raised right and Kyle has the time, like he did with Kirk, to mold him over a couple years with no pressure and lower expectations commensurate his draft positron.

Had they identified a QB in the first or second round, the media pressure would be insane if we don't acquire Kirk.

John Lynch just did an interview http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/the-full-john-lynch-interview-from-pft-live/ and there are several things that caught my ear with his interview. He said, one of the big focuses on Kyle's offense was simply to keep the QB healthy. And I thought, that's a pretty interesting perspective there, because how many times have you seen teams lose a QB and their playoff hopes vanish. I think Hoyer can be a good one, but no QB can become good, if their O Line and the offensive scheme they use gets them injured for a good portion of the year. Same thing with developmental QB's like CJ, any injury to CJ in the beginning of his career - will really slow his development vs a guy like a first round pick (Trubiski) who has an abundant amount of physical talent and even though he's behind from a pro-set offense mentally, if he does manage to stay healthy, can easily overtake a CJ who's injured on the bench.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Yup. Lynch and Shanahan have six year deals. They knew they didn't HAVE to rush it this year, as far as finding a qb. CJ is a developmental​ prospect, nothing more or less. If Cousins is available next season, the 49ers will go all in. Usually where there's smoke there's fire. That has been the number one reported NFL subject this offseason from multiple outlets on the 49ers fascination with Cousins. When that many people are reporting on it, there's usually a sense of truth behind it.

From what I've read on the Webzone draft boards, this years QB crop was weak. Next year's crop will be stronger. I think that was a big factor in not spending a first round draft capital on this years QB talent. Not so much that they both have a 6 year contract. The best of all worlds would be that CJ does develop into a solid QB *AND* they have that 1st round pick to draft a franchise QB in next years draft. The competition will be intense at that point and possibly make both QB's really excel by pushing each other.

Personally, I don't think the Cousin's will be leaving that team. Or if he does, we'll be overpaying his market value because they will offer him something that our capologists will say is simply not sustainable and breaks the cap, and if we match that, we screw our cap for the next 5 years. I think, reading again from the Webzone Trade threads, that organization has franchise tagged Cousins for the third straight year (or something like that) and it's like 25+ million a year. That's a boat load of money that we can pay for a all-pro left tackle, an all pro LEO, and an all pro DB. Is Cousins worth that much? I dunno.

Originally posted by Giedi:
From what I've read on the Webzone draft boards, this years QB crop was weak. Next year's crop will be stronger. I think that was a big factor in not spending a first round draft capital on this years QB talent. Not so much that they both have a 6 year contract.

The same people perpetuating this BS said the same thing last season. I would put no stock in next year's projected class. Last year this time, Brad Kaaya was being mocked to us second overall; he went in the sixth round this year.

And besides, given what we've seen from Kyle, I don't think he'll like any of those guys. He has very particular type he's looking for and those guys are not it.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No question. I certainly can understand the excitement around Beathard; he's a great mold for this offense and Kyle will always put him in the best position to succeed and in two years, the offense will be fully installed, we'll have more talent and the players will be more proficient within the WCO, but his ceiling may be closer to Hoyer than Cousins.

That said, it's really up to Kyle and Beathard. The kid will be raised right and Kyle has the time, like he did with Kirk, to mold him over a couple years with no pressure and lower expectations commensurate his draft positron.

Had they identified a QB in the first or second round, the media pressure would be insane if we don't acquire Kirk.

John Lynch just did an interview http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/the-full-john-lynch-interview-from-pft-live/ and there are several things that caught my ear with his interview. He said, one of the big focuses on Kyle's offense was simply to keep the QB healthy. And I thought, that's a pretty interesting perspective there, because how many times have you seen teams lose a QB and their playoff hopes vanish. I think Hoyer can be a good one, but no QB can become good, if their O Line and the offensive scheme they use gets them injured for a good portion of the year. Same thing with developmental QB's like CJ, any injury to CJ in the beginning of his career - will really slow his development vs a guy like a first round pick (Trubiski) who has an abundant amount of physical talent and even though he's behind from a pro-set offense mentally, if he does manage to stay healthy, can easily overtake a CJ who's injured on the bench.

No question. The beauty of the WCO and having a true X's and O's play caller like Kyle and a HC who makes that position a primary position again is a beautiful thing. The QB will no longer be an extension of the running game (focus on his legs and sideline go-routes).

The WCO passing game is designed to get rid of the ball under 3 seconds...hence all the short area quickness WR's who can get instant separation, sprint right options, moving pockets, shorter routes in the middle of the field (shortest/easiest passes for QB's), quick outs, short crossing routes, tons of TE's and RB/FB passing safety outlets, etc.

Look at how the sacks doubled under Gabbert to Kaepernick behind the same OL. The emphasis will now move back to knowing where to go with the ball pre/post snap and passing under 3 seconds. We haven't had this kind of philosophy and refocus on the QB position and true X's and O's since the 90's.

The ability to play chess (one move to set up another; purposeful tactical moves) while the defense plays checkers can not be understated.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Yup. Lynch and Shanahan have six year deals. They knew they didn't HAVE to rush it this year, as far as finding a qb. CJ is a developmental​ prospect, nothing more or less. If Cousins is available next season, the 49ers will go all in. Usually where there's smoke there's fire. That has been the number one reported NFL subject this offseason from multiple outlets on the 49ers fascination with Cousins. When that many people are reporting on it, there's usually a sense of truth behind it.

From what I've read on the Webzone draft boards, this years QB crop was weak. Next year's crop will be stronger. I think that was a big factor in not spending a first round draft capital on this years QB talent. Not so much that they both have a 6 year contract. The best of all worlds would be that CJ does develop into a solid QB *AND* they have that 1st round pick to draft a franchise QB in next years draft. The competition will be intense at that point and possibly make both QB's really excel by pushing each other.

Personally, I don't think the Cousin's will be leaving that team. Or if he does, we'll be overpaying his market value because they will offer him something that our capologists will say is simply not sustainable and breaks the cap, and if we match that, we screw our cap for the next 5 years. I think, reading again from the Webzone Trade threads, that organization has franchise tagged Cousins for the third straight year (or something like that) and it's like 25+ million a year. That's a boat load of money that we can pay for a all-pro left tackle, an all pro LEO, and an all pro DB. Is Cousins worth that much? I dunno.

I don't know if Cousins will be a skin or not next season. What I do know is he will not sign a long term deal this season. No way he does that with the kind of leverage he controls right now. If they have to tag him next year, depending on the tag they use, he gets a guaranteed amount of money of 28 or 32 mil. If they let him walk he gets his choice of a team on the open market. In the end, I don't think Cousins is looking to be the highest paid QB in the league, which is around 25 mil currently. He has a good preexisting relationship with Shanahan, which is always the first good check mark for a team in negotiations. Also for Cousins, I think it comes down to guarantees over annual money anyhow, which reportedly the skins have continued to low-ball him on pretty badly.

I wouldn't worry too much about our cap. The one thing we can say definitively about Marathe since he got here is he's very good at managing the cap and designing smart contracts that work for both sides.

All of this is idle chatter at the moment imo. Whether Cousins is a 49er next year or not is irrelevant. The point is Shanahan and Lynch know they have time to find their QB and this year there was no rush. CJ is not that guy. Could he become that guy? Possibly. There's that possibility with any draft pick. But they took CJ to have as a developmental​ project, not to be the face of the 49ers. I trust this regime will get their guy and with how smart they've been managing their cap for some time now, I'm not worried in the least how much that guy will cost or where he'll come from.

Originally posted by Giedi:

John Lynch just did an interview http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/the-full-john-lynch-interview-from-pft-live/ and there are several things that caught my ear with his interview. He said, one of the big focuses on Kyle's offense was simply to keep the QB healthy. And I thought, that's a pretty interesting perspective there, because how many times have you seen teams lose a QB and their playoff hopes vanish. I think Hoyer can be a good one, but no QB can become good, if their O Line and the offensive scheme they use gets them injured for a good portion of the year. Same thing with developmental QB's like CJ, any injury to CJ in the beginning of his career - will really slow his development vs a guy like a first round pick (Trubiski) who has an abundant amount of physical talent and even though he's behind from a pro-set offense mentally, if he does manage to stay healthy, can easily overtake a CJ who's injured on the bench.

Hence why I was so excited when our 7th rd pick in 2015 started showing signs of potential greatness at RT in 2016, esp towards end of yr...the fact that Trent Brown has continued to excel, while the likes of Martin, Pears, and Devey made me cringe...and are thankfully now gone adios...is what makes me so hopeful for this yr. Kyle specifically wasn't looking for the guy who could throw the 75 yd rope...he was looking for the accurate guy who could throw before the break for a modest 5-7 yards, and do it repeatedly. I have no favorite in the QB competition, just want the best guy. But an OL that was "horrocious" the last 2-3 yrs, started to look much improved once we sat down Martin, pears, and Devey. Having added not only Garnett and now the Zut, along with much better backups, plus 2 good choices at Center, plus a decent potential 3rd choice as backup C, the quality of the OL will be much, much better this yr. So right off the bat Kyle has succeeded in protecting our QBs way better than last three yrs.

The added benefit of Hoyer knowing Kyle's WCO, is better yet. Cousins is next yrs issue...not this yrs. And that depends on need ,his performance, and his contract status. Everything else Cousins has no bearing on us this yr. We got our guys at QB for this yr, so now it is just a matter of how each does. But Hoyer knowing the O is huge, in that now the OL, WRs, TEs, RBs...all get a full yr of learning the O...Kyle's WCO. Can't say enough about how big a deal that is for us this yr. If we can just keep injuries down, this yr will be a good one for us.

One of the more amazing things about our OC/HC is that he never once mentioned the name Beathard during the entire draft time. That in itself is amazing. Not your standard Jim Harbaw, mike noln, singletary, tomsul, nor the Chipster, HC. This cat is a very different breed. Very different. Also if you ask him about X's and O's....he actually knows about them.

Originally posted by Heroism:
The same people perpetuating this BS said the same thing last season. I would put no stock in next year's projected class. Last year this time, Brad Kaaya was being mocked to us second overall; he went in the sixth round this year.

And besides, given what we've seen from Kyle, I don't think he'll like any of those guys. He has very particular type he's looking for and those guys are not it.

I do think he would like Darnold. Darnold has all of the qualities, from my perspecitve, that he talks about. Now I don't think Kyle will want to give up the farm for him, but I think Darnold is going to be a fine QB in this league.

The more I film breakdowns and interviews I watch regarding C.J. Beathard, the more I like him.

I don't expect him to break onto the scene and become a franchise QB, but I think he is in a very good situation to be able to.

It would be nice if he had a year or two of grooming and then we put him out there and he dominates!

I don't like the number 3 though haha I want him to change to something better.

I think he is better off as number 15,17 or 18.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I do think he would like Darnold. Darnold has all of the qualities, from my perspecitve

Based on the quarterbacks Kyle has drafted in the NFL, I don't see Darnold being a quarterback on Kyle's radar. Among other things, Kyle puts a premium on QBs that take the bulk of their snaps from under center in a pro-style offense, are experienced giving their back to the defense(ie boots/waggles) and have a compact throwing motion and quick release, all of which do not pertain to Sam Darnold. I am sure there are things Darnold does that Kyle will like, but Darnold lacks the primary attributes Kyle looks for in his quarterback.

I think people banking on us grabbing one of the top three guys from next year's draft class are going to be disappointed. Sign Kirk next year and continue to develop CJ sounds like an awesome plan to me.