QB CJ Beathard - signs with Jacksonville

I hope this kid shines

I think Beathard can be a starter for us once Hoyer leaves. For now, I think he can win the #2 spot and challenge for the #1 spot in a year or two.

Can't wait to see him in the pre-season

Originally posted by tohara3:

Can't wait to see him in the pre-season

That's what we need to wait for. If he starts making plays and executing with Taylor,Robinson,Kittle etc.. who knows, maybe they start sneaking some reps with the first team when Brian needs a breather.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by tohara3:

Can't wait to see him in the pre-season

That's what we need to wait for. If he starts making plays and executing with Taylor,Robinson,Kittle etc.. who knows, maybe they start sneaking some reps with the first team when Brian needs a breather.

at the very best, he can be another Matt Ryan...and at the very worst...he can be the next Hoyer..

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by tankle104:

I do think he would like Darnold. Darnold has all of the qualities, from my perspecitve

Based on the quarterbacks Kyle has drafted in the NFL, I don't see Darnold being a quarterback on Kyle's radar. Among other things, Kyle puts a premium on QBs that take the bulk of their snaps from under center in a pro-style offense, are experienced giving their back to the defense(ie boots/waggles) and have a compact throwing motion and quick release, all of which do not pertain to Sam Darnold. I am sure there are things Darnold does that Kyle will like, but Darnold lacks the primary attributes Kyle looks for in his quarterback.

I think people banking on us grabbing one of the top three guys from next year's draft class are going to be disappointed. Sign Kirk next year and continue to develop CJ sounds like an awesome plan to me.

Agreed, I see us targeting the best pass rusher or wr

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:

From what I've read on the Webzone draft boards, this years QB crop was weak. Next year's crop will be stronger. I think that was a big factor in not spending a first round draft capital on this years QB talent. Not so much that they both have a 6 year contract.

The same people perpetuating this BS said the same thing last season. I would put no stock in next year's projected class. Last year this time, Brad Kaaya was being mocked to us second overall; he went in the sixth round this year.

And besides, given what we've seen from Kyle, I don't think he'll like any of those guys. He has very particular type he's looking for and those guys are not it.

Do you seriously think every QB class is the same?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:
From what I've read on the Webzone draft boards, this years QB crop was weak. Next year's crop will be stronger. I think that was a big factor in not spending a first round draft capital on this years QB talent. Not so much that they both have a 6 year contract.

The same people perpetuating this BS said the same thing last season. I would put no stock in next year's projected class. Last year this time, Brad Kaaya was being mocked to us second overall; he went in the sixth round this year.

And besides, given what we've seen from Kyle, I don't think he'll like any of those guys. He has very particular type he's looking for and those guys are not it.

I think they do have some basis in grading various classes stronger than other classes. For example, the 1983 QB draft was legendary. John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and pro bowler Ken O'Brien. That was a GREAT crop of QB's and not every year you have a crop like that. So, I think the guys in the Draft Threads do have a point about various draft classes being stronger in one position vs another.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
Do you seriously think every QB class is the same?

Please highlight where I said anything about all QB classes being the same.

I am simply saying do not count your eggs before they hatch. These guys still need to play out their upcoming season.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No question. I certainly can understand the excitement around Beathard; he's a great mold for this offense and Kyle will always put him in the best position to succeed and in two years, the offense will be fully installed, we'll have more talent and the players will be more proficient within the WCO, but his ceiling may be closer to Hoyer than Cousins.

That said, it's really up to Kyle and Beathard. The kid will be raised right and Kyle has the time, like he did with Kirk, to mold him over a couple years with no pressure and lower expectations commensurate his draft positron.

Had they identified a QB in the first or second round, the media pressure would be insane if we don't acquire Kirk.

John Lynch just did an interview http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/the-full-john-lynch-interview-from-pft-live/ and there are several things that caught my ear with his interview. He said, one of the big focuses on Kyle's offense was simply to keep the QB healthy. And I thought, that's a pretty interesting perspective there, because how many times have you seen teams lose a QB and their playoff hopes vanish. I think Hoyer can be a good one, but no QB can become good, if their O Line and the offensive scheme they use gets them injured for a good portion of the year. Same thing with developmental QB's like CJ, any injury to CJ in the beginning of his career - will really slow his development vs a guy like a first round pick (Trubiski) who has an abundant amount of physical talent and even though he's behind from a pro-set offense mentally, if he does manage to stay healthy, can easily overtake a CJ who's injured on the bench.

No question. The beauty of the WCO and having a true X's and O's play caller like Kyle and a HC who makes that position a primary position again is a beautiful thing. The QB will no longer be an extension of the running game (focus on his legs and sideline go-routes).

The WCO passing game is designed to get rid of the ball under 3 seconds...hence all the short area quickness WR's who can get instant separation, sprint right options, moving pockets, shorter routes in the middle of the field (shortest/easiest passes for QB's), quick outs, short crossing routes, tons of TE's and RB/FB passing safety outlets, etc.

Look at how the sacks doubled under Gabbert to Kaepernick behind the same OL. The emphasis will now move back to knowing where to go with the ball pre/post snap and passing under 3 seconds. We haven't had this kind of philosophy and refocus on the QB position and true X's and O's since the 90's.

The ability to play chess (one move to set up another; purposeful tactical moves) while the defense plays checkers can not be understated.

I share your love for the WCO. I love the beauty of the mis-direction plays, it's an all weather offense, unlike the Air-Coryell or Al Davis vertical offense. It's won a lot of super bowls. However, it's not perfect. My pet peeves with the WCO is that it takes a lot of time to develop (lots of reps), it takes a certain QB that is quick witted and cerebral which is harder to scout than a QB that has a rocket arm and can run like a gazelle. In other words, it's really hard to scout those types of QB's because the intangibles are so much more important than the measurables and those intangibles are hard to figure out. The WCO is no longer a new offense - and so there are a lot of defensive counters now to the WCO, the Zone Blitz, the 4-3 under, the tampa-2, etc... Finally, I don't think it's very cap friendly. Because the Cap forces your star offensive players to go to another team when they get so good, they can't fit in the cap anymore. Although, the Pats do a great job in getting plug-and-play players to keep Tom's offense chugging along. In other words, I don't think you could fit John Taylor, Jerry Rice, Brent Jones and Roger Craig under the cap for more than a year or two.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think they do have some basis in grading various classes stronger than other classes. For example, the 1983 QB draft was legendary. John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and pro bowler Ken O'Brien. That was a GREAT crop of QB's and not every year you have a crop like that. So, I think the guys in the Draft Threads do have a point about various draft classes being stronger in one position vs another.

Except projecting a class to be "stronger" is conjecture. Until their body of work is complete, nothing can be known for certain. Like I referenced in my previous post, a contingent of posters suggested we pass on Jared Goff and Carson Wentz in 2016 for the ostensibly stronger class in 2017. However, the 2017 QB class turned out to be a consensus worse class than the year prior when the 2017 draft came around.

All I am saying is pump the brakes on the 2018 QB class hype. Let them play before we crown them.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Based on the quarterbacks Kyle has drafted in the NFL, I don't see Darnold being a quarterback on Kyle's radar. Among other things, Kyle puts a premium on QBs that take the bulk of their snaps from under center in a pro-style offense, are experienced giving their back to the defense(ie boots/waggles) and have a compact throwing motion and quick release, all of which do not pertain to Sam Darnold. I am sure there are things Darnold does that Kyle will like, but Darnold lacks the primary attributes Kyle looks for in his quarterback.

I think people banking on us grabbing one of the top three guys from next year's draft class are going to be disappointed. Sign Kirk next year and continue to develop CJ sounds like an awesome plan to me.

I didn't say I think we are going to take Darnold. I don't think we will take a QB next year unless something drastic happens. I think we will win at min 6 games this year, which would take us out of contending for a top QB without a big trade.

I also think your assessment of Darnold is way off. USC doesn't run an old school pro style offense, but it is one of the most 'Pro style offense" there is at the major schools. He has an incredible arm talent. i've watched him play and he plays big time. I think he is going to be a great pro QB, i don't think we will get him unless something crazy happens though.

I explicitly said, "under center in a pro-style offense"

What Sam Darnold does at USC is nothing like what Kirk Cousins did at MSU or CJ Beathard did at Iowa.
We can see the overlapping in the qbs Kyle has drafted. He has a very particular type he's looking for.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think they do have some basis in grading various classes stronger than other classes. For example, the 1983 QB draft was legendary. John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and pro bowler Ken O'Brien. That was a GREAT crop of QB's and not every year you have a crop like that. So, I think the guys in the Draft Threads do have a point about various draft classes being stronger in one position vs another.

Except projecting a class to be "stronger" is conjecture. Until their body of work is complete, nothing can be known for certain. Like I referenced in my previous post, a contingent of posters suggested we pass on Jared Goff and Carson Wentz in 2016 for the ostensibly stronger class in 2017. However, the 2017 QB class turned out to be a consensus worse class than the year prior when the 2017 draft came around.

All I am saying is pump the brakes on the 2018 QB class hype. Let them play before we crown them.

Well, they are projecting from facts. (i.e. college production, college stats) I mean the numbers Marino, Elway, and Jim Kelly put up in college were outstanding. Using that kind of factual numbers, you can project what they can be in the NFL. But every projection is a guess and so nothing can be certain - and that's true of every draft class. Yes, it's true, the future can't be known, but projecting isn't *knowing* the future (like in past tense) it's guessing about the uncertain future. If you have enough historical facts, you can *almost* predict future events with a certain degree of certainty. Having said that, we don't know what's in Kyle's mind regarding next years QB's. All anybody can do is guess. But, given that Kyle *didn't* choose a QB in the first round is a good indication that he didn't think very highly of this years crop of QB's.