QB CJ Beathard - signs with Jacksonville

Originally posted by Heroism:

I like Kyle's approach. He wants guys that at minimum can function within the framework of his offense. That's the baseline.

Pretty much...if free agency and the draft proved, it's all about system fits again. I love it. Each year it will get easier to tell what we'll need.

We know what we need for a WCO and we know what we need for a 4-3_under.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, there was a time when every QB that came out was from a pro style (mostly) and very few gave a rip about their 40's and fastballs or physique.

Polar opposite now...trends of the NFL.

TBF, Kyle has a long list of things he looks for in a QB. I posted those several times. If that guy happens to be in the first or third, I trust he'll go get him. And he did like Trubisky too so he does look at spread QB's. He's looking for traits to mold over 2 years.

We could've easily had Trubisky if he really did like him, but it seemed like more of smokescreen. He just seems like he doesn't want to coach a QB up, and it's kinda part of his job. He just wants to teach his playbook and go from there. I hope we find what he's looking for, but it is a dying breed in college.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Ok and there's also guys that have had success without taking snaps under center. RG3 until he blew his knee. Kap and Cam have won conference championships, Cam has been an MVP. Dalton is a middle tier starter. Mariota. There are just many under center busts as there are spread busts.

It's never been an undercenter vs shotgun thing. The gun is nothing more than a formation(FWIW, the shotgun was in Walsh's offense and was ran early on in SF even in 1981). It's more about how much is placed on the QB in college. Reading defense's and checking in and out of plays is huge.

Now when they get to the pros it become more on how the QB adjusts to the pro game. Good coaching can insulate a QB for a while with schemes, but in the end the NFL is gonna make you beat them from the pocket to win consistently.

Perfectly said. Beathard had a ton put on his plate and he talked about that. A lot of these spread QB's don't have to think much.

Originally posted by Niners816:

It's never been an undercenter vs shotgun thing. The gun is nothing more than a formation(FWIW, the shotgun was in Walsh's offense and was ran early on in SF even in 1981). It's more about how much is placed on the QB in college. Reading defense's and checking in and out of plays is huge.

Now when they get to the pros it become more on how the QB adjusts to the pro game. Good coaching can insulate a QB for a while with schemes, but in the end the NFL is gonna make you beat them from the pocket to win consistently.

Yea I know, but he also seems to want his QB to have footwork down too. That's why i'm categorizing them as under center/spread.

Originally posted by Niners816:
It's never been an undercenter vs shotgun thing. The gun is nothing more than a formation(FWIW, the shotgun was in Walsh's offense and was ran early on in SF even in 1981). It's more about how much is placed on the QB in college. Reading defense's and checking in and out of plays is huge.

Now when they get to the pros it become more on how the QB adjusts to the pro game. Good coaching can insulate a QB for a while with schemes, but in the end the NFL is gonna make you beat them from the pocket to win consistently.

Which is why Kaepernick and RG3 flopped. Never showed the ability to win from the pocket consistently. In Shanahan's offense in particular you need someone that is perfectly comfortable sitting back in the pocket, utilizing all his targets and picking a defense apart based on the looks they are giving him.

You need someone with upper tier intangibles, processing and decision-making. You don't need a QB that has a cannon for an arm or can run a blazing fast 40.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, there was a time when every QB that came out was from a pro style (mostly) and very few gave a rip about their 40's and fastballs or physique.

Polar opposite now...trends of the NFL.

TBF, Kyle has a long list of things he looks for in a QB. I posted those several times. If that guy happens to be in the first or third, I trust he'll go get him. And he did like Trubisky too so he does look at spread QB's. He's looking for traits to mold over 2 years.

We could've easily had Trubisky if he really did like him, but it seemed like more of smokescreen. He just seems like he doesn't want to coach a QB up, and it's kinda part of his job. He just wants to teach his playbook and go from there. I hope we find what he's looking for, but it is a dying breed in college.

I would say it's completely the opposite. The foundation of the WCO is predicated on developing the QB, first and foremost, hence why it takes a few years to master. That comment would make more sense if you were talking about HaRoman than Kyle.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Perfectly said. Beathard had a ton put on his plate and he talked about that. A lot of these spread QB's don't have to think much.

But they're able to take teams to SBs, have the 2nd best TD-int ration in league history, win MVPs. I just think Kyle is limiting our prospects unnecessarily.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
We could've easily had Trubisky if he really did like him, but it seemed like more of smokescreen. He just seems like he doesn't want to coach a QB up, and it's kinda part of his job. He just wants to teach his playbook and go from there. I hope we find what he's looking for, but it is a dying breed in college.

Coaching a QB up doesn't stop just because a guy has the basic foundation down. They need to continue to improve upon that foundation but its crucial to have that foundation. A QB like Beathard showed he can handle the basics of what is required from a pro QB, he's got a long way to go to fully develop as a pro paser.

Its the difference between refining the skillset that a quarterback already possesses versus pretty much having to teach them to play quarterback at a remedial level and trying to work up from there.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Perfectly said. Beathard had a ton put on his plate and he talked about that. A lot of these spread QB's don't have to think much.

But they're able to take teams to SBs, have the 2nd best TD-int ration in league history, win MVPs. I just think Kyle is limiting our prospects unnecessarily.

Sure...with top 5 defenses, top 5 running games....but can you sustain success with a running QB in the NFL? Evidence doesn't suggest so...

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Perfectly said. Beathard had a ton put on his plate and he talked about that. A lot of these spread QB's don't have to think much.

But they're able to take teams to SBs, have the 2nd best TD-int ration in league history, win MVPs. I just think Kyle is limiting our prospects unnecessarily.

The question still remains on how sustainable it is when you don't develop the inside the pocket game. For Kap it was basically a 50% read option attack out if the pistol and 50% WCO passing concepts with power run. When the league learned how to contain the read option attack our offense wasn't nearly as successful even before all the s**t hit the fan and the Harbs era blew up.

If you want to win big like this I suggest getting a top 2-3 defense because that's what happened here, SEA and CAR to win conference titles and in SEA case a SB.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Your right the better your team is, the more players you have to pay. That comes with the territory. Again though, this is where I appreciate the expertise of Marathe. The guy does great work managing the cap and designs smart contracts. It's inevitable that the more success we have, the smaller that cap room will get. However, I have plenty of confidence in those people within the organization right now who are managing that process.

Like I said from the start on the Cousins issue. In the end, he has a great relationship with Kyle. That's a great plus in contract negotiations. I don't think he'll expect to be the highest paid QB in the NFL. I do however expect that if he's available, the niners will make a hard run at him. He's well developed at this point and can operate Kyle's offense at full capacity. This just takes me back full circle though. Even if the 49ers have to pick that salary up on the books, I still have confidence in Marathe's numbers and the front offices​ ability to formulate a plan and make it work, while building the rest of the team.

Heh, the minute you have a franchise QB, is the minute you pay him a franchise QB money. Whether you get him by trade or develop him in-house -- his cap numbers will be astronomical. Its a good problem to have. I'd rather have that problem, than not have that problem. Just like paying taxes, you would rather pay more this year than last year. Why? Because if you are required to pay more, it means you made a lot more money this year than last year. As we get up there into the elite franchise level of wins, Praage will be as valuable as a Franchise QB in my opinion.

Well said

I can read the news website titles now;

''49ERS GET BEAT HARD WITH BEATHARD 31-7''

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

He's always looking for the guy that can run his offense,

That evil b*****d!

lol Kyle asking too much out of the qb position, like playing pro style under center

I mean like walk in and run it without coaching. That's hard to find these days, you're picking from a limited pool.

No one is saying this. We are talking about guys that can progress, function, and improve with coaching better than the last guy that was here. Kyle taking Hoyer over Kaep despite the better athleticism should tell you how inadequate Kaep has been in this area.

forward and onwards we must go. We can't look back now. We have established a D.

Now we have to drive the improvement of the big O
.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
It's just not how it works. College coaches are working for their jobs too, and they can dominate with simple offenses that beat inferior talent, so why change? If Kyle were a little more willing to develop QBs, I think we could have a better prospect than Beathard.

It is how it works now because teams keep drafting projects and gimmick QBs regardless of how many flop. If NFL teams collectively put their foots down, top QB recruits would flock to places that run pro style offenses and as a result you would see more college programs running those offenses in order to compete for the best QBs.

I see nothing wrong with Shanahan's approach. Acquire the guys you feel best about running your offense instead of hoping to pound a square peg into a round hole.

There's too much upside in developing better talent, and that's why the NFL won't and never will put their foot down and only draft a bunch of Beathards. He's a limited talent, and that will hinder you at the next level too.

The better QBs go to colleges that run high flying offenses, so we can try to be great and develop one of those guys, or pray that we run into the next Brady. I think our odds are higher with the latter.

If you look at super bowl winning QB's, there's a range of them that have won the super bowl. Rocket arms like Terry Bradshaw to Precision passers like Joe Montana. It's a team game so the system does matter. In college, you are right, there is a huge talent disparity between colleges. There are college coaches that can dominate inferior teams with superior talent using simple systems, so why go to the effort of teaching a complex pro-style offense when you don't have to.

The NFL is the opposite of College, it prides itself on Parity. The Cap, Draft, and free agency do a good job to make all NFL teams as close to each other in talent level as possible. The most consistent teams that win multiple super bowls seem to have a good system, and good players fitting in their respective systems. I think the worst thing you can do is have a bad fit - specially at the QB position in your particular system. Again, I'm a big believer in defense. I don't think great offenses win super bowls. I think all you need (at minimum) to win a super bowl is a very good (but not outstanding) consistent and balanced offensive system, and an outstanding topflight defense.