QB Josh Rosen

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:

These excuses are getting ridiculous. He's losing games against bad unranked schools...in college.

Its a team sport bud UCLA is Not good doesnt mean it don't have a talented player

If he's the anointed NFL franchise savior that some want to crown him as then you would think he would be good enough to lead his team to a better record than 3-3 in the pac 12?

As a pro abosolutely he's the best QB prospect and college wins don't mean nothing when evaluating bud

That's what scouts said about Cutler.

Honestly, you put Rosen on USC or Washington and Rosen would be undefeated right now.

I would prefer evaluating a QB on a team with poor blocking, poor rushing and average defense at best. They can't hide their deficiencies and their strengths also bubble to the surface.

QB's on great teams hide their deficiencies as their strengths are exaggerated. Especially when they're in a gimmicky spread offense with decent WR's.

Put most of these spread QB's on a team running pro-concepts (with poor blocking) on an average or below average team and their pretty stats will melt away.

Couldn't agree anymore why do you think Darnolds bad mechanics are not talked about? Winning and stats make you blind when evaluating.

I love to see when the kid is getting knocked down how he gets up, how he handles adversity, how he responds after a bad game those are the moments that stand out to me. On top of the tools and system thats gonna make him thrive at the next level.

So far Rosen is the beet fit for Shanny's offense has a lot of Matt Ryan in him and kid is tough he's taking a beating this year.

So Far Rosen

Ya I agree. Put Darnold on UCLA and there would be no question- he wouldn't be declaring for the draft this year. His deficiencies would shoot to the surface without question.

Rosen runs a lot of pro-concepts, especially last year. Hasn't had good blocking, rushing or defense to hide his deficiencies and did very well in a more pro-style system. Probably has one decent WR. Mora has done a horrible job of recruiting talent/depth on both sides of the ball.

This year there's even less talent on that team. That became blatantly obvious when Rosen placed the entire team on his shoulders vs A&M for that comback win. No QB can do that week in week out.

He has shown the ability to sit in the pocket and exhaust plays as they were designed. He's not a rushing QB or broken play QB so when the o-line gives up immediate pressure he either has to throw it away or often force a ball into tight coverage in an attempt to win games. There's no great defense and running game to fall back on.

He also makes "NFL throws" on a regular basis. Passes with anticipation into tight windows and these aren't a high % of bubble screens etc like many college QB's. He's going mid/deep with great accuracy. When he has time he goes through full progressions and delivers the ball with touch and can gun balls in if required. He's the prototypical pocket QB and that's what we need.

His overall mechanics are much better than all of this years prospects. It's not an easy thing to change a QB's mechanics after they've played a certain way for years. Some QB's can do it, many can't.

Rosen basically checks all the boxes, especially for our offense. This doesn't mean he's the perfect prospect or has no faults but IMO he's the best pure pocket passer to come out in years. He has Aaron Rodgers attitude and Matt Ryan pocket game. People have been crapping on his attitude mostly because he said football and school don't mix. That created a lot of enemies in the college football media and even national media. Then he came out as anti-Trump which may have alienated some fans/writers but I don't care about his attitude off the field. There's nothing there that will land him in any sort of legal trouble.

At the end of day I think Cousins would be a safter option but if we can't land him Rosen is by far the best fit for our offense. Unless Shanahan finds some hidden gem. I can almost guarantee it won't be Baker Mayfield.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:
These excuses are getting ridiculous. He's losing games against bad unranked schools...in college.

Its a team sport bud UCLA is Not good doesnt mean it don't have a talented player

If he's the anointed NFL franchise savior that some want to crown him as then you would think he would be good enough to lead his team to a better record than 3-3 in the pac 12?

As a pro abosolutely he's the best QB prospect and college wins don't mean nothing when evaluating bud

That's what scouts said about Cutler.

Honestly, you put Rosen on USC or Washington and Rosen would be undefeated right now.

I would prefer evaluating a QB on a team with poor blocking, poor rushing and average defense at best. They can't hide their deficiencies and their strengths also bubble to the surface.

QB's on great teams hide their deficiencies as their strengths are exaggerated. Especially when they're in a gimmicky spread offense with decent WR's.

Put most of these spread QB's on a team running pro-concepts (with poor blocking) on an average or below average team and their pretty stats will melt away.

Couldn't agree anymore why do you think Darnolds bad mechanics are not talked about? Winning and stats make you blind when evaluating.

I love to see when the kid is getting knocked down how he gets up, how he handles adversity, how he responds after a bad game those are the moments that stand out to me. On top of the tools and system thats gonna make him thrive at the next level.

So far Rosen is the beet fit for Shanny's offense has a lot of Matt Ryan in him and kid is tough he's taking a beating this year.

So Far Rosen

Ya I agree. Put Darnold on UCLA and there would be no question- he wouldn't be declaring for the draft this year. His deficiencies would shoot to the surface without question.

Rosen runs a lot of pro-concepts, especially last year. Hasn't had good blocking, rushing or defense to hide his deficiencies and did very well in a more pro-style system. Probably has one decent WR. Mora has done a horrible job of recruiting talent/depth on both sides of the ball.

This year there's even less talent on that team. That became blatantly obvious when Rosen placed the entire team on his shoulders vs A&M for that comback win. No QB can do that week in week out.

He has shown the ability to sit in the pocket and exhaust plays as they were designed. He's not a rushing QB or broken play QB so when the o-line gives up immediate pressure he either has to throw it away or often force a ball into tight coverage in an attempt to win games. There's no great defense and running game to fall back on.

He also makes "NFL throws" on a regular basis. Passes with anticipation into tight windows and these aren't a high % of bubble screens etc like many college QB's. He's going mid/deep with great accuracy. When he has time he goes through full progressions and delivers the ball with touch and can gun balls in if required. He's the prototypical pocket QB and that's what we need.

His overall mechanics are much better than all of this years prospects. It's not an easy thing to change a QB's mechanics after they've played a certain way for years. Some QB's can do it, many can't.

Rosen basically checks all the boxes, especially for our offense. This doesn't mean he's the perfect prospect or has no faults but IMO he's the best pure pocket passer to come out in years. He has Aaron Rodgers attitude and Matt Ryan pocket game. People have been crapping on his attitude mostly because he said football and school don't mix. That created a lot of enemies in the college football media and even national media. Then he came out as anti-Trump which may have alienated some fans/writers but I don't care about his attitude off the field. There's nothing there that will land him in any sort of legal trouble.

At the end of day I think Cousins would be a safter option but if we can't land him Rosen is by far the best fit for our offense. Unless Shanahan finds some hidden gem. I can almost guarantee it won't be Baker Mayfield.

agree withe everything except choosing Cousins over a chance at Rosen. I like Cousins but paying $30M a year is a hard pill to swallow. With Rosen, you have a good passer with potential to be a top 5 QB and you can pay him a rookie wage (high rookie wage but still) for 5 years. With Rosen, we could sign so many players to put around him. Cousin's salary would put a huge hole into our cap. But like i said, i like Cousins and am down to pay him but if i had the chance, Rosen financially makes more sense.

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:
These excuses are getting ridiculous. He's losing games against bad unranked schools...in college.

Its a team sport bud UCLA is Not good doesnt mean it don't have a talented player

If he's the anointed NFL franchise savior that some want to crown him as then you would think he would be good enough to lead his team to a better record than 3-3 in the pac 12?

As a pro abosolutely he's the best QB prospect and college wins don't mean nothing when evaluating bud

That's what scouts said about Cutler.

Honestly, you put Rosen on USC or Washington and Rosen would be undefeated right now.

I would prefer evaluating a QB on a team with poor blocking, poor rushing and average defense at best. They can't hide their deficiencies and their strengths also bubble to the surface.

QB's on great teams hide their deficiencies as their strengths are exaggerated. Especially when they're in a gimmicky spread offense with decent WR's.

Put most of these spread QB's on a team running pro-concepts (with poor blocking) on an average or below average team and their pretty stats will melt away.

Couldn't agree anymore why do you think Darnolds bad mechanics are not talked about? Winning and stats make you blind when evaluating.

I love to see when the kid is getting knocked down how he gets up, how he handles adversity, how he responds after a bad game those are the moments that stand out to me. On top of the tools and system thats gonna make him thrive at the next level.

So far Rosen is the beet fit for Shanny's offense has a lot of Matt Ryan in him and kid is tough he's taking a beating this year.

So Far Rosen

Ya I agree. Put Darnold on UCLA and there would be no question- he wouldn't be declaring for the draft this year. His deficiencies would shoot to the surface without question.

Rosen runs a lot of pro-concepts, especially last year. Hasn't had good blocking, rushing or defense to hide his deficiencies and did very well in a more pro-style system. Probably has one decent WR. Mora has done a horrible job of recruiting talent/depth on both sides of the ball.

This year there's even less talent on that team. That became blatantly obvious when Rosen placed the entire team on his shoulders vs A&M for that comback win. No QB can do that week in week out.

He has shown the ability to sit in the pocket and exhaust plays as they were designed. He's not a rushing QB or broken play QB so when the o-line gives up immediate pressure he either has to throw it away or often force a ball into tight coverage in an attempt to win games. There's no great defense and running game to fall back on.

He also makes "NFL throws" on a regular basis. Passes with anticipation into tight windows and these aren't a high % of bubble screens etc like many college QB's. He's going mid/deep with great accuracy. When he has time he goes through full progressions and delivers the ball with touch and can gun balls in if required. He's the prototypical pocket QB and that's what we need.

His overall mechanics are much better than all of this years prospects. It's not an easy thing to change a QB's mechanics after they've played a certain way for years. Some QB's can do it, many can't.

Rosen basically checks all the boxes, especially for our offense. This doesn't mean he's the perfect prospect or has no faults but IMO he's the best pure pocket passer to come out in years. He has Aaron Rodgers attitude and Matt Ryan pocket game. People have been crapping on his attitude mostly because he said football and school don't mix. That created a lot of enemies in the college football media and even national media. Then he came out as anti-Trump which may have alienated some fans/writers but I don't care about his attitude off the field. There's nothing there that will land him in any sort of legal trouble.

At the end of day I think Cousins would be a safter option but if we can't land him Rosen is by far the best fit for our offense. Unless Shanahan finds some hidden gem. I can almost guarantee it won't be Baker Mayfield.

agree withe everything except choosing Cousins over a chance at Rosen. I like Cousins but paying $30M a year is a hard pill to swallow. With Rosen, you have a good passer with potential to be a top 5 QB and you can pay him a rookie wage (high rookie wage but still) for 5 years. With Rosen, we could sign so many players to put around him. Cousin's salary would put a huge hole into our cap. But like i said, i like Cousins and am down to pay him but if i had the chance, Rosen financially makes more sense.

Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

Depending on how well Beathard plays for the rest of the year, the Niners have a choice on what to do with what is now most likely a top 5 pick. Take someone with the more polished skill set in Rosen or take someone later like Josh Allen who definitely needs development but has a very high ceiling. Neither one of these guys has a great supporting cast around them right now. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49er_Rider:

Originally posted by jcs:
These excuses are getting ridiculous. He's losing games against bad unranked schools...in college.

Its a team sport bud UCLA is Not good doesnt mean it don't have a talented player

If he's the anointed NFL franchise savior that some want to crown him as then you would think he would be good enough to lead his team to a better record than 3-3 in the pac 12?

As a pro abosolutely he's the best QB prospect and college wins don't mean nothing when evaluating bud

That's what scouts said about Cutler.

Honestly, you put Rosen on USC or Washington and Rosen would be undefeated right now.

I would prefer evaluating a QB on a team with poor blocking, poor rushing and average defense at best. They can't hide their deficiencies and their strengths also bubble to the surface.

QB's on great teams hide their deficiencies as their strengths are exaggerated. Especially when they're in a gimmicky spread offense with decent WR's.

Put most of these spread QB's on a team running pro-concepts (with poor blocking) on an average or below average team and their pretty stats will melt away.

Couldn't agree anymore why do you think Darnolds bad mechanics are not talked about? Winning and stats make you blind when evaluating.

I love to see when the kid is getting knocked down how he gets up, how he handles adversity, how he responds after a bad game those are the moments that stand out to me. On top of the tools and system thats gonna make him thrive at the next level.

So far Rosen is the beet fit for Shanny's offense has a lot of Matt Ryan in him and kid is tough he's taking a beating this year.

So Far Rosen

Ya I agree. Put Darnold on UCLA and there would be no question- he wouldn't be declaring for the draft this year. His deficiencies would shoot to the surface without question.

Rosen runs a lot of pro-concepts, especially last year. Hasn't had good blocking, rushing or defense to hide his deficiencies and did very well in a more pro-style system. Probably has one decent WR. Mora has done a horrible job of recruiting talent/depth on both sides of the ball.

This year there's even less talent on that team. That became blatantly obvious when Rosen placed the entire team on his shoulders vs A&M for that comback win. No QB can do that week in week out.

He has shown the ability to sit in the pocket and exhaust plays as they were designed. He's not a rushing QB or broken play QB so when the o-line gives up immediate pressure he either has to throw it away or often force a ball into tight coverage in an attempt to win games. There's no great defense and running game to fall back on.

He also makes "NFL throws" on a regular basis. Passes with anticipation into tight windows and these aren't a high % of bubble screens etc like many college QB's. He's going mid/deep with great accuracy. When he has time he goes through full progressions and delivers the ball with touch and can gun balls in if required. He's the prototypical pocket QB and that's what we need.

His overall mechanics are much better than all of this years prospects. It's not an easy thing to change a QB's mechanics after they've played a certain way for years. Some QB's can do it, many can't.

Rosen basically checks all the boxes, especially for our offense. This doesn't mean he's the perfect prospect or has no faults but IMO he's the best pure pocket passer to come out in years. He has Aaron Rodgers attitude and Matt Ryan pocket game. People have been crapping on his attitude mostly because he said football and school don't mix. That created a lot of enemies in the college football media and even national media. Then he came out as anti-Trump which may have alienated some fans/writers but I don't care about his attitude off the field. There's nothing there that will land him in any sort of legal trouble.

At the end of day I think Cousins would be a safter option but if we can't land him Rosen is by far the best fit for our offense. Unless Shanahan finds some hidden gem. I can almost guarantee it won't be Baker Mayfield.

agree withe everything except choosing Cousins over a chance at Rosen. I like Cousins but paying $30M a year is a hard pill to swallow. With Rosen, you have a good passer with potential to be a top 5 QB and you can pay him a rookie wage (high rookie wage but still) for 5 years. With Rosen, we could sign so many players to put around him. Cousin's salary would put a huge hole into our cap. But like i said, i like Cousins and am down to pay him but if i had the chance, Rosen financially makes more sense.

Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

last report i saw had us at $62M in cap space for 2018. Not sure how much we are rolling over

Originally posted by jcs:

Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

LOL

Originally posted by Viperboy:

Originally posted by jcs:
Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

LOL

Now I'm reading it's potentially 128 million with the carry over. So signing Cousins will potentially only leave us with $100 million to spend next offseason...

People forget social media has expanded upon every illicit scouting narrative. If this were the 80s Rosen would be a second or third round prospect. If this were the 00s he'd be a 'late first', in 2018 he could be the 4th overall pick. Big bets on a guy that won't be a day one starter in NFL land, that's the business.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Viperboy:

Originally posted by jcs:
Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

LOL

Now I'm reading it's potentially 128 million with the carry over. So signing Cousins will potentially only leave us with $100 million to spend next offseason...

That's misleading. It's $100 million in cap space left over, but Cousins will cost the entire $128 million in 4 years. You can't go out and spend all the cap space, because then we'd only be able to afford the team for one year.

$128 million is the equivalent of a few very good players on 3-4 year deals or one franchise QB. It doesn't buy you an entire team and we'd be foolish to spend it all at once when we're this far from being Super Bowl contenders.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Viperboy:

Originally posted by jcs:
Huge hole in our 118 million dollar cap space?

LOL

Now I'm reading it's potentially 128 million with the carry over. So signing Cousins will potentially only leave us with $100 million to spend next offseason...

That's misleading. It's $100 million in cap space left over, but Cousins will cost the entire $128 million in 4 years. You can't go out and spend all the cap space, because then we'd only be able to afford the team for one year.

$128 million is the equivalent of a few very good players on 3-4 year deals or one franchise QB. It doesn't buy you an entire team and we'd be foolish to spend it all at once when we're this far from being Super Bowl contenders.

??

He's only going to be making an avg of 25-30 million a year on a long term deal...Just to compare Trubisky signed a 4 year 29 million dollar deal with 19 million dollar signing bonus. It avg's his deal to 7 million a year and that 5 year option is going to be equal to what ever the top 10 highest QB salaries are that season.

Originally posted by jcs:
??

He's only going to be making an avg of 25-30 million a year on a long term deal.

He'll get 30 if he comes here. So maybe not the entire $128 million, but close. Depending on the bid war, he may even get $32 million/year. Either way, we can get Cousins or we can get 3 players at non-QB positions with that cap space. Just hope there's a QB in the draft Shanahan likes.

you're making a big mistake if you count rollover cap as the amount we can spend - once you spend the rollover it's gone, i.e. if we give cousins 30m and say well it's only 30/128 we ~100m left, you'll sigh players, blow that gap and then be in serious cap problems with players you cant cut due to guarantees. roster gets gutted.

you have to judge a massive contract/long term deal by viewing it in the context of the REGULAR cap - how much of our regular cap does he cost and is it worth the investment?

rollover is for short term deals, or massively front loaded intermediate player deals - say hyde, give him a nice chunk up front and pay less on the back end. or loading up on 1 yr rentals to push you over

Originally posted by mtl_49er:
you're making a big mistake if you count rollover cap as the amount we can spend - once you spend the rollover it's gone, i.e. if we give cousins 30m and say well it's only 30/128 we ~100m left, you'll sigh players, blow that gap and then be in serious cap problems with players you cant cut due to guarantees. roster gets gutted.

you have to judge a massive contract/long term deal by viewing it in the context of the REGULAR cap - how much of our regular cap does he cost and is it worth the investment?

rollover is for short term deals, or massively front loaded intermediate player deals - say hyde, give him a nice chunk up front and pay less on the back end. or loading up on 1 yr rentals to push you over

There is a 89% cash spend clause in the collective bargaining agreement that forces teams to spend at least that amount over a 4 year period. We can't just keep rolling over 30-40% of our cap every year.

that really isn't what i was saying. what i'm saying is that we do not have 120+m in actual cap room - we have our regular cap room based on salary + the extra cap rolled over. so if you are signing a player at 30m per year, you better calculate his overall cost to the team based on regular cap room. the extra space from rolling over the cap will disappear as we spend on player and 30m a year cannot be banked on that rollover amount as its likely going to be a 5-6 year deal.

Not a fan hope we pass on him, when the bullets start coming his sack shrivels up...