The Baalke Meter

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Lynch > Baalke
Shannahan > Gase

That's, hopefully, the bottom line.

I was a huge Gase fan...I pounded the table for him.

You could have put Bill Walsh in there for either Tomsula, Gase, or Kelly and even Walsh would have sucked, not because any of these guys are bad coaches, far from it. I think the structure where Baalke was too powerful did those coaches in. Not saying either Tomsula or Kelly were either bad or good, just that they never really had a chance with Baalke ruling things, not listening to position coaches, not communicating, and basically kissing the owners to save his own .

I agree they didn't have much to work with...but imo good coaches surround themselves with a great coaching staff and tomsula and chip did not. We had a bottom of the barrel staff, especially with tomsula and chip didn't give a rats ass about defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I do think that the 2016 draft has the potential to be Baalke's best if Buckner and Robinson continue to come on and become top flight players, if Garnett develops into a quality starter at guard and one or two of the other guys come around.

I think Baalke's inability to manage properly and handle the other 75% of GM responsibilities were a much bigger issue than his scouting ability.

He has the right mindset to be a scout but shouldnt be the face or key decision maker for a franchise.

He lacks the temperament for the job, something that Lynch appears to possess in spades so hopefully the drama between front office and coaching staff is now a thing of the past although time will tell just how good a job he will do in terms of talent acquisition.

Agreed...fans seem to think that every other GM in the league hit on every draft pick. If fans really looked into other GMs they'd see how much they fail...they'd also see what they may not want too...that Baalke was right there with the other 9 GMs we interviewed with one major exception...no FQB. As to the OTHER responsibilities of his GM duties and ego he gets a big

Yeah, if ShanaLynch doesn't get their franchise QB in the next two-ish years, it's going to be very hard for both of them to keep their jobs for the total 6 years of their contract. He was never able to allow Harbaugh to pick his offensive players - I think that was one of his biggest downfalls. I believe Harbaugh wanted Owen Maricic and Baalke vetoed him. Oh well. His fixation with ACL's really held us up on the offensive side, where he could have used a good portion of those on deep strike offensive players that would compliment Colin's arm strength. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I like the way Lynch really did this years draft. Now, what I'd like to see is how Lynch deals with picking last on every round next year.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Nah, as far as credit.

His reports of undermining, not getting along with coaches, fixations with acl prospects had a part in it.

You cant hold up one draft like its the holy grail, sure he did good.

But thats not enough, you cant give 0 players to a coach, you and your staff need to find players that can help not Hurt us. He got cute and did more harm than good, has nothing to do with jim and trent, more like coach and gm and the GM imho hurt us more than anything

Thats one good draft per how many years?

Agree to disagree

Totally agree. The job of a GM is sorta like the chicken or the egg question. Is a great player great because he's talented, or because the coach developed him into a talented football player who becomes great? Personally, I think the GM's job isn't to pick great players for the Coach, I think he's to present to the coach the talent that is available to him in a given season (sorta like arranging the paint for the master painter) and let the coach pick and choose which paint to use and let the coach paint the picture he wants. I think Baalke tried to not only pick the paint, but paint the picture too.

I go back to guys like Bill Ring, Jeff Stover, Renaldo Nehemiah - who were basically good non-football athletes and because of coaching, turned into very productive players for us. It's the GM's job to uncover the talent and do the grind of assembling the draft board, and making sure the Coach knows everything there is about each player on that draft board. That's pretty much where the GM job ends and the coaches job begins, I think.

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks, We drafted for future during a Super Bowl run that a coach who other coaches couldnt do, he had them ready and America was surprised including us how soon Harbaugh turned it around, then the well went dry.

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

Shanny and Lynch should have this team in contention in about 4 years. We need hits on the draft next year.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I do think that the 2016 draft has the potential to be Baalke's best if Buckner and Robinson continue to come on and become top flight players, if Garnett develops into a quality starter at guard and one or two of the other guys come around.

I think Baalke's inability to manage properly and handle the other 75% of GM responsibilities were a much bigger issue than his scouting ability.

He has the right mindset to be a scout but shouldnt be the face or key decision maker for a franchise.

He lacks the temperament for the job, something that Lynch appears to possess in spades so hopefully the drama between front office and coaching staff is now a thing of the past although time will tell just how good a job he will do in terms of talent acquisition.

Agreed...fans seem to think that every other GM in the league hit on every draft pick. If fans really looked into other GMs they'd see how much they fail...they'd also see what they may not want too...that Baalke was right there with the other 9 GMs we interviewed with one major exception...no FQB. As to the OTHER responsibilities of his GM duties and ego he gets a big

Yeah, if ShanaLynch doesn't get their franchise QB in the next two-ish years, it's going to be very hard for both of them to keep their jobs for the total 6 years of their contract. He was never able to allow Harbaugh to pick his offensive players - I think that was one of his biggest downfalls. I believe Harbaugh wanted Owen Maricic and Baalke vetoed him. Oh well. His fixation with ACL's really held us up on the offensive side, where he could have used a good portion of those on deep strike offensive players that would compliment Colin's arm strength. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I like the way Lynch really did this years draft. Now, what I'd like to see is how Lynch deals with picking last on every round next year.

Right! We ended up bringing Owen in later and cut him. LOL...the irony.

Awesome points about Lynch and reshaping the image of the franchise. If he does nothing else and leaves all personnel moves to the FO, he'd be successful. He's already doing it and players are coming here in big part to Kyle and John's ability to relate to them as players.

And your point is spot on...if ShanaLynch don't develop or find a real FQB, they won't last long here. Period.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks, We drafted for future during a Super Bowl run that a coach who other coaches couldnt do, he had them ready and America was surprised including us how soon Harbaugh turned it around, then the well went dry.

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

Yeah, he was ultra conservative indeed. Came from the mobeyball system indeed. Even with that said, we clearly were the most talented team in the Superbowl by far...yet...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks, We drafted for future during a Super Bowl run that a coach who other coaches couldnt do, he had them ready and America was surprised including us how soon Harbaugh turned it around, then the well went dry.

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

Yeah, he was ultra conservative indeed. Came from the mobeyball system indeed. Even with that said, we clearly were the most talented team in the Superbowl by far...yet...

That's my point, the bolts were coming off.. We needed that replenishment. Tank never helped Cowboy, that was a 2nd round pick, Aj never saw the field, we all saw why..

When we are in contention we need that killer instinct and get those quality pieces for that machine to keep running. The well went dry hoarding picks.

Tank needed to give cowboy a rest then, sure its great if he turns his career around but it hurt us having him recover during a super bowl run.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

That's my point, the bolts were coming off.. We needed that replenishment. Tank never helped Cowboy, that was a 2nd round pick, Aj never saw the field, we all saw why..

When we are in contention we need that killer instinct and get those quality pieces for that machine to keep running. The well went dry hoarding picks.

Tank needed to give cowboy a rest then, sure its great if he turns his career around but it hurt us having him recover during a super bowl run.

Agreed... for sure. Cap be damned at that point (like Denver). That window closes VERY quickly. Make your moves!

We all never expected for Harbaugh to turn that team around his first year, which other coaches couldn't do at the time,

I feel Trent never took full advantage of that opportunity of a window to supply what we his team needed, all those draft picks did nada. It cost him imho.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

That's my point, the bolts were coming off.. We needed that replenishment. Tank never helped Cowboy, that was a 2nd round pick, Aj never saw the field, we all saw why..

When we are in contention we need that killer instinct and get those quality pieces for that machine to keep running. The well went dry hoarding picks.

Tank needed to give cowboy a rest then, sure its great if he turns his career around but it hurt us having him recover during a super bowl run.

Agreed... for sure. Cap be damned at that point (like Denver). That window closes VERY quickly. Make your moves!

I truly believe that.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks,

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

A lot of Baalke's misses (A.J. Jenkins) is just the fact that he doesn't know offense very well. Trent Baalke has never drafted for the WCO. If you look at his career - specially with the 49ers. We had Singletary, and prior to that Nolan who were both defensive guys, and their OC's were a strange grab bag of has beens. Tolliner Martz, Jim Hostler, Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson. Harbaugh's offense wasn't a true WCO because it was more of a long ball air Coryell kind of offense. McCloughan worked directly with one of the best OC's and HC"s of the WCO in Holmgren for a very long time. It makes sense that he'd know offense because he worked with one of the best operators for the WCO. It makes sense that Baalke would pick duds on offense because he's clueless on that side of the ball. His biggest failing was not letting Harbaugh have more of a say in the draft. I'll give him props for getting some decent defensive players, but that's about it.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks,

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

A lot of Baalke's misses (A.J. Jenkins) is just the fact that he doesn't know offense very well. Trent Baalke has never drafted for the WCO. If you look at his career - specially with the 49ers. We had Singletary, and prior to that Nolan who were both defensive guys, and their OC's were a strange grab bag of has beens. Tolliner Martz, Jim Hostler, Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson. Harbaugh's offense wasn't a true WCO because it was more of a long ball air Coryell kind of offense. McCloughan worked directly with one of the best OC's and HC"s of the WCO in Holmgren for a very long time. It makes sense that he'd know offense because he worked with one of the best operators for the WCO. It makes sense that Baalke would pick duds on offense because he's clueless on that side of the ball. His biggest failing was not letting Harbaugh have more of a say in the draft. I'll give him props for getting some decent defensive players, but that's about it.

Good point,

I hope Lynch learns from Trent's mistakes, so far he has shown when they want a player, they go after them.

I hope he sets a precedent and continues in the draft with quality players and if theres a guy in the late rounds you wana take a gamble with fine but know when to finish when we smell blood during a Super Bowl run.

I dont wana sit another 10 years waiting because during that 3 year window we decided to be passive in drafting.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks,

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

A lot of Baalke's misses (A.J. Jenkins) is just the fact that he doesn't know offense very well. Trent Baalke has never drafted for the WCO. If you look at his career - specially with the 49ers. We had Singletary, and prior to that Nolan who were both defensive guys, and their OC's were a strange grab bag of has beens. Tolliner Martz, Jim Hostler, Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson. Harbaugh's offense wasn't a true WCO because it was more of a long ball air Coryell kind of offense. McCloughan worked directly with one of the best OC's and HC"s of the WCO in Holmgren for a very long time. It makes sense that he'd know offense because he worked with one of the best operators for the WCO. It makes sense that Baalke would pick duds on offense because he's clueless on that side of the ball. His biggest failing was not letting Harbaugh have more of a say in the draft. I'll give him props for getting some decent defensive players, but that's about it.

Good point,

I hope Lynch learns from Trent's mistakes, so far he has shown when they want a player, they go after them.

I hope he sets a precedent and continues in the draft with quality players and if theres a guy in the late rounds you wana take a gamble with fine but know when to finish when we smell blood during a Super Bowl run.

I dont wana sit another 10 years waiting because during that 3 year window we decided to be passive in drafting.

For sure. Baalke's final statement was that he failed to find a FQB and from day 1, ShanaLynch have talked numerous times how that's their #1 priority. They "get it" and have probably talked numerous times about how the previous regime failed which is why the media notes how Anti-Baalke Lynch is.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I agree, well said..

Some can make that statement that ok, I understand it's a hit or miss game..

My point then if it's so hard then why make it harder on yourself by continuously taking a gamble on drafting injured players that were just wasted and you couldn't get along. We weren't in a position to hoard draft picks,

We were in Super Bowl contention and needed Trent not to talk about Odell, Amari but to actually have that killer instinct in getting them who ever they may be.

Hoarding picks didnt work, we needed him to have that killer instinct and get the quality pieces instead we got a doomsday prepper..

A lot of Baalke's misses (A.J. Jenkins) is just the fact that he doesn't know offense very well. Trent Baalke has never drafted for the WCO. If you look at his career - specially with the 49ers. We had Singletary, and prior to that Nolan who were both defensive guys, and their OC's were a strange grab bag of has beens. Tolliner Martz, Jim Hostler, Jimmy Raye, Mike Johnson. Harbaugh's offense wasn't a true WCO because it was more of a long ball air Coryell kind of offense. McCloughan worked directly with one of the best OC's and HC"s of the WCO in Holmgren for a very long time. It makes sense that he'd know offense because he worked with one of the best operators for the WCO. It makes sense that Baalke would pick duds on offense because he's clueless on that side of the ball. His biggest failing was not letting Harbaugh have more of a say in the draft. I'll give him props for getting some decent defensive players, but that's about it.

Good point,

I hope Lynch learns from Trent's mistakes, so far he has shown when they want a player, they go after them.

I hope he sets a precedent and continues in the draft with quality players and if theres a guy in the late rounds you wana take a gamble with fine but know when to finish when we smell blood during a Super Bowl run.

I dont wana sit another 10 years waiting because during that 3 year window we decided to be passive in drafting.

For sure. Baalke's final statement was that he failed to find a FQB and from day 1, ShanaLynch have talked numerous times how that's their #1 priority. They "get it" and have probably talked numerous times about how the previous regime failed.

Thats all I want, lets learn from it and move on. So when that time comes we might be in a scenario where we are 1 or 2 players away and we don't hesitate to make those moves.. We pounce, we attack and hopefully next year we get our franchise Qb in the draft.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Thats all I want, lets learn from it and move on. So when that time comes we might be in a scenario where we are 1 or 2 players away and we don't hesitate to make those moves.. We pounce, we attack and hopefully next year we get our franchise Qb in the draft.

Amen brother! I get the "sense" ShanaLynch would be willing to make that bold move when needed.

Also having $62 salary cap ready to burn in the kitty makes it easier to make the necessary moves.