The Baalke Meter

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Thats all I want, lets learn from it and move on. So when that time comes we might be in a scenario where we are 1 or 2 players away and we don't hesitate to make those moves.. We pounce, we attack and hopefully next year we get our franchise Qb in the draft.

Amen brother! I get the "sense" ShanaLynch would be willing to make that bold move when needed.

That franchise QB is the key. When we had Steve and Joe, this team was elite pretty much most of their careers here. Finding that guy is key. How do you do that, is the biggest question ShanaLynch has to answer and figure out. I agree with Wu-5rings that ShanaLynch has to be willing, but not need to, spend a lot of draft capital on the QB position. If they see a guy, they said they would go after him. This next draft, says the Draft Nerds of the WebZone, is one of the strongest QB crops in a long time. I expect them to really spend a high draft pick, if needed, to get that guy they want (assuming **none** of the current 49er QB on the squad has Franchise QB potential). I think it might be worth trading this years number 1 and number 2, and next years 1 - to get that QB - if that's what's needed to move up in the 2018 draft to get that top flight QB. (I leave it to the draft nerds to figure out of that's a good value move or not).

True...we also have to be realistic. Wu brought up ODB. Sure, we could have moved up to get him but we'd be giving up our entire draft to do it. And did we have a WCO in place, a great coaching staff, a FQB in place and was he the missing piece we needed to win a Championship? Life ain't Madden. Kyle just talked about mortgaging their future. He won't do it... with the caveat understanding that he 'would' if this was the final piece to the puzzle.

We still need to remember, myself included, that we don't have the WCO installed in our O this yr, and it won't be til after TC & PS that we actually start playing it. Idly, I wondered if we couldn't have done a bit more in FA this yr, but now see the wisdom of not doing that. We got plenty for Cousins if he becomes available, plus we could actually buy a #1 WR in addition if we wanted, or a shut down Corner, maybe even both. Money has been handled right, HC & GM have been done right...now we just need that elusive FR QB.

Looking at where we were, and where we are now...who could complain? John and Kyle really set us up, with not just Solomon, but also Reuben...oh, and 3 extra good picks. Nobody...nobody saw that coming. And then with good FAs and excellent draft...I still can't believe it's the same team. Well, actually...it isn't...it's only half the same.

Why does this clown still have a thread in niner talk?

Originally posted by 49erfaninAZ:

Why does this clown still have a thread in niner talk?

To appreciate the future, one must always remember the past.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erfaninAZ:

Why does this clown still have a thread in niner talk?

To appreciate the future, one must always remember the past.

Not bad, Yoda.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Thats all I want, lets learn from it and move on. So when that time comes we might be in a scenario where we are 1 or 2 players away and we don't hesitate to make those moves.. We pounce, we attack and hopefully next year we get our franchise Qb in the draft.

Amen brother! I get the "sense" ShanaLynch would be willing to make that bold move when needed.

That franchise QB is the key. When we had Steve and Joe, this team was elite pretty much most of their careers here. Finding that guy is key. How do you do that, is the biggest question ShanaLynch has to answer and figure out. I agree with Wu-5rings that ShanaLynch has to be willing, but not need to, spend a lot of draft capital on the QB position. If they see a guy, they said they would go after him. This next draft, says the Draft Nerds of the WebZone, is one of the strongest QB crops in a long time. I expect them to really spend a high draft pick, if needed, to get that guy they want (assuming **none** of the current 49er QB on the squad has Franchise QB potential). I think it might be worth trading this years number 1 and number 2, and next years 1 - to get that QB - if that's what's needed to move up in the 2018 draft to get that top flight QB. (I leave it to the draft nerds to figure out of that's a good value move or not).

True...we also have to be realistic. Wu brought up ODB. Sure, we could have moved up to get him but we'd be giving up our entire draft to do it. And did we have a WCO in place, a great coaching staff, a FQB in place and was he the missing piece we needed to win a Championship? Life ain't Madden. Kyle just talked about mortgaging their future. He won't do it... with the caveat understanding that he 'would' if this was the final piece to the puzzle.

Should have given up all our picks in 2012 to draft Luck.

This probably would have been a good move based on the defense we kinda had.

That's why I think it's better to get the defense in the top 7.. it's easier to do then find that "franchise qb" and with a good qb, good running game and really good defense, AND GOOD COACHING, I think your in position for playoffs every year.

Look how that "franchise qb" turned out in Indy right now, or even with Manning...
They can't beat teams with great defenses (& couldn't with manning) and they can't stop teams because there defense sucks, (& couldn't with manning).

People keep bringing up our SB days with our great offense, our defense was great back then. Shut down Elway, Marino... we did not let teams score on us.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erfaninAZ:

Why does this clown still have a thread in niner talk?

To appreciate the future, one must always remember the past.

Not bad, Yoda.

Learn, we will. Appreciate, we may.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

https://ninernoise.com/2017/06/12/49ers-2012-trent-baalke-worst-nfl-draft-2013/

"San Francisco 49ers: If 2012 was Trent Baalke's worst NFL Draft, 2013 was almost as bad"

🤔

I just looked at the New England Patriots recent drafts, and I'm struck by a couple of things. First of all they draft pretty much dead last every year. Second of all, the seem to keep chugging along with Tom Brady at the controls. I think the draft is in a sense, overrated if you look at the New England Patriots and their success. The counterpoint is - of course they can draft dead last because the have a franchise QB. Well, Bellicheat was smart enough to recognize Brady was a Franchise QB, so again, it's the coach vs a GM. I think the 49ers got it right the fist time - got a good coach in Harbaugh, but they screwed it up, but I think the 49ers got it right a second time - in getting Kyle. Kyle got Taylor Gabriel, I think he was undrafted, and the next thing you know he's a big part of their 2016 offense. A big part of drafting and free agency, I think, is having a good coach who has a good system, and allowing that coach to get the players he wants. Now, I know next to nothing about the draft, but I think the draft is overrated - in the sense that to some people if we don't have a first pick in the first round, the season is over - kind of attitude. I think if you have a good coach, a 49er 1986 kind of draft is always possible every year -- as long as you have a good coach vs a GM.

They also had stellar defenses that carried Brady in his early years when Brady didn't do anything special except not turn the ball over and let vinitari knock it in.

Bellicheat is really really good coach..
Brady took years to develop. They happened to win the 1st one they got in and didn't blow the whole thing up when they struggled and pick players that fit there system and the owner and GM didn't f**k up a good thing due to arrogant power plays.

For people not to recognize how good the pats defense has been all these years surprises the hell out of me.

Carroll and the Seahawks were/are (kinda) in the same position.
Carroll knew, (but possibly lost site) on the importance of a great defense..
Hell, didn't he gave us ranked #1 in defense when he was with the 49ers?

If the seacawks draft or FA up to keep that defense up, and keep letting midget develop, they will stay competitive for years.
Question is, can they do it?
In house fighting (true or not) over pay here and there and your scratching again.

Ravens won it on defense (don't get it twisted) I know Flaccid Flacco happen to have the run of his life than year in the playoffs and against us that year.
Take away the fumble we had (that wasn't Fwd progress) or the mugging on the kickoff return on who was it, Miller or the helmet to helmet twice on crabs or the offside on the Ravens d that wasn't called and the ravens dude pushing a ref and not getting ejected and all the other b******t calls and who knows! Lol

How did FQB Cam do against broncos defense?
Or Manning ( yes end of career) against seacawks defense.

Hell, Brady against Falcons defense before the defense choked at the end.
Funny how that's overlooked how the great FQB Brady was s**t Down at the beginning.

Naw, give me a great defense... but that's just me

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:

We need to be in this for the Long Term PULL

I think you will find most of the posters have been supporting the team for some time now. How about you 9?

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:

We need to be in this for the Long Term PULL

I think you will find most of the posters have been supporting the team for some time now. How about you 9?

As in 9moon? Is this him??

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

I don't doubt Shanny nor Lynch but I know we are years away brotha. Too many self-inflicted moves. Our gm pissed away drafts like nothing, 3-5 years away if we are lucky.

"But the damage could have been minimized had the 49ers hired Adam Gase to succeed Harbaugh, and it sounds like Gase had the job two years ago ... until general manager Trent Baalke "pushed to go the other way," according to FOX Sports' Jay Glazer, who added that "Gase was stunned."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/adam-gase-reportedly-had-49ers-job-before-gm-trent-baalke-changed-mind/amp/

Well, we'd still have Baalke had we hired Gase. We'll see.

The WCO takes 3 years to fully install anyways but it's a sustainable and proven offense unlike the smoke and mirrors offense the HaRoman offense brought for a couple years.

But it's not just the WCO vs. the Bo Schemblacher 2.0 offense with an athletic QB, it's the X's and O's within it. And that's where Kyle gives us the huge edge.

Kyle will make due with what we have on offense for now and get the most out of the players.

In the end, half this roster will still be Baalke. Hopefully under quality coaching, NFL proven schemes and great X's and O's, they turn out to be good.

Time will tell.

I've never understood the need for you to continue to knock Jim down to try and prop up any of these other coaches who haven't accomplished what Jim has done.

We've seen the trash that Balkke drafted (as you defended every pick), especially on offense, but yet you make comments like:
Kyle will make due with what we have on offense for now and get the most out of the players..

Well wtf did Jim do then? Lol Jim got us to a SB. Let's hope Kyle can do that in 3 years. And if that's unobtainable, then how was Jim able to do it?

Maybe, just maybe, if Jim could have filled players for his scheme, we could have had continued success..
Or I know, give Kap some f**king o-line and receiver help, and maybe he could have continued to develop..
But I guess we will never know.
Brady was not a franchise qb from day one, just as luck & Can isn't showing a FQB will fix an entire team and save there coach as some of you claim. Riverboat Ron, and Pagano both on hot seats & funny Lewis isn't gone yet & that's with FQB dalton.

I do hope Kyle learned some hard ass lessons from the plays he called in that SB loss.
He's young and made some bad calls.. and the Falcons defense balled out most of the game until they ran out of gas at the end. Hell, they had that FQB Brady looking like s**t for 3/4 of that game.

just keep cracken away as you usually do

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Ok I'll entertain this,

At the rate we are getting rid of his draft picks? I dont see a trio of his draft picks being the foundation of any championship team?

Who do you see being that foundation?

What do you think Baalke was doing the whole time he was here? Working with Scott and Nolan to build the foundation and then when he took over, had a great draft and added a ton of pieces to take us to a Championship level. Go look at how many transactions he made...hint...just like now.

No matter which way you slice it, 1/2 the 53 and starters will still be Baalkes. The only difference between Lynch and Baalke is that Lynch is new to the organization.

If your bias is so strong you can't give credit where credit is due (during that time), there's no point in discussing this further.

Then by your bias, since we will have 1/2 of Baalke's draft picks, cause they are so good and the foundation of the team, then, Kyle should have us to a SB in his 3rd year, or maybe kyle's 2nd year since he is finally an awesome head coach with x's & o's and Jim doesn't know s**t with his 1974 Bo 2.0 offense.

Hopefully your right.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Ok I'll entertain this,

At the rate we are getting rid of his draft picks? I dont see a trio of his draft picks being the foundation of any championship team?

Who do you see being that foundation?

What do you think Baalke was doing the whole time he was here? Working with Scott and Nolan to build the foundation and then when he took over, had a great draft and added a ton of pieces to take us to a Championship level. Go look at how many transactions he made...hint...just like now.

No matter which way you slice it, 1/2 the 53 and starters will still be Baalkes. The only difference between Lynch and Baalke is that Lynch is new to the organization.

If your bias is so strong you can't give credit where credit is due (during that time), there's no point in discussing this further.

Then by your bias, since we will have 1/2 of Baalke's draft picks, cause they are so good and the foundation of the team, then, Kyle should have us to a SB in his 3rd year, or maybe kyle's 2nd year since he is finally an awesome head coach with x's & o's and Jim doesn't know s**t with his 1974 Bo 2.0 offense.

Hopefully your right.

Different circumstances my friend. You know this.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

I've never understood the need for you to continue to knock Jim down to try and prop up any of these other coaches who haven't accomplished what Jim has done.

We've seen the trash that Balkke drafted (as you defended every pick), especially on offense, but yet you make comments like:
Kyle will make due with what we have on offense for now and get the most out of the players..

Well wtf did Jim do then? Lol Jim got us to a SB. Let's hope Kyle can do that in 3 years. And if that's unobtainable, then how was Jim able to do it?

Maybe, just maybe, if Jim could have filled players for his scheme, we could have had continued success..
Or I know, give Kap some f**king o-line and receiver help, and maybe he could have continued to develop..
But I guess we will never know.
Brady was not a franchise qb from day one, just as luck & Can isn't showing a FQB will fix an entire team and save there coach as some of you claim. Riverboat Ron, and Pagano both on hot seats & funny Lewis isn't gone yet & that's with FQB dalton.

I do hope Kyle learned some hard ass lessons from the plays he called in that SB loss.
He's young and made some bad calls.. and the Falcons defense balled out most of the game until they ran out of gas at the end. Hell, they had that FQB Brady looking like s**t for 3/4 of that game.

just keep cracken away as you usually do

Because it was clear we were the most talented team in the Superbowl by far and it was Jim's inability to correct his own mistakes that lead to us losing the 6th.

I can see both...Baalke was a huge part of building up a championship talented team and then when he was no longer part of a FO team, began to fall on his face riding solo while facing some insane circumstances but ultimately he deserved to be fired at the end while Jim joined a ready-made veteran team perfect for his philosophy and provided his blue collar vision that rode us to the peak while he ultimately got outcoached in the big game (his M.O.) and is best served at the college level.

Both went as far as they could and both were best together until a rash of injuries and retirements consumed both parties (and ego) and their FQB didn't pan out.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Then by your bias, since we will have 1/2 of Baalke's draft picks, cause they are so good and the foundation of the team, then, Kyle should have us to a SB in his 3rd year, or maybe kyle's 2nd year since he is finally an awesome head coach with x's & o's and Jim doesn't know s**t with his 1974 Bo 2.0 offense.

Hopefully your right.

Nowhere did I claim the 1/2 Baalke roster would be good but rather, noting this is a common cycle for a change in regime. They could end up being good now with quality coaching and scheme but we don't know to date.

This is different from Jim's tenure where we had veterans who had developed over years and years in their primes and were self-guiding (Camp Alex) and we as fans knew there was talent there but had poor coaching and scheme...hence the extra excitement around the hiring of Jim.

ShanaLynch had virtually no veterans here (youngest team in the NFL) and spent all off season bringing some in just to help lay the foundation for future success.

To me it was a mixture of bad coaching and just bad play from the players. We made Flacco look like Montana Jr in the 1st half. The secondary just played god awful. Special teams giving up that huge return. Can't put any of that on coaching. Now that cluster f**k of calls at the end of the game is on the the coaching staff. Kaep simply can't make that throw. If the defense that played all regular season had showed up in the super bowl I think we would've won.