Poll: Like or Dislike Players Protesting During the National Anthem?

Originally posted by tondiman:

I like it because i like the 1st amendment. It's really really simple.

Protests never happen at a convenient, perfect place or time. We bag on these players for not doing anything with the platforms they have, and now that they are people still aren't happy.

Well it's not about making people happy and comfortable, it's about raising awareness, and they're doing it in a super peaceful and respectful way.

At the end of the day, police brutality is real and justice isn't bring served.

These players are as ballsy and as patriotic as it gets. I admire anyone who fights for justice.

Yeah, and I'm sure if some players decided to trot out with "Blue Lives Matter" or the names of slain officers written on their shoes all you First Amendment cheerleaders would be applauding it.

Regardless, this is not a First Amendment issue no matter how many people keep saying it...it is not an issue of the State abridging anyone's right to free speech. It's the NFL as a private employer who is allowing it, just as they could disallow it as they limit speech in many other instances, as do countless other private employers who limit speech of their employees...just ask James Damore, the Google Memo dude.

https://youtu.be/AWRJvl2TkNk

I highly recommend everyone to watch this video. It's only 4 minutes long. 4 minutes could go a long way for our country.

Originally posted by mv49erfan:

Originally posted by tondiman:

kneeling, in almost any culture/country in the world including the USA, is a sign of respect. When people kneel in front of god, it's out of respect, when they kneel in front of a loved one's grave it's out of respect, when they kneel in front of a flag it's a peaceful and respectful way of saying "this flag stands for something and our country, by not serving justice, is not honouring what that flag means".

people who think it's disrespectful think so because for them the flag is a symbol of the military, when it never was and never will be, because it represents the people, justice, liberty and equality. Please please please regardless of your political background tell me that you understand this.

Just because kneeling for some things represent respect doesn't mean that it represents respect for all things. If kneeling was a sign of respect for our flag and the anthem, then when why have we been standing for it since the song was created?

What if you refused to kneel in church? Or when there was a hurt player down on the field? When a player is hurt on the field, players kneel as a sign of respect. Some players don't kneel when a player is hurt, that's disrespectful. Do they mean to be disrespectful? Of course not. But it is. Just because the kneeling players say, "it's nothing against the military or our troops, I love our military" doesn't mean that it's any less disrespectful. Actions speak louder than words.

Sorry man, there are many forms of respect. So when a player is hurt on the field EVERYONE should kneel to show their respect? So you at home watching, you're disrespectful if you don't kneel? I mean common dude, that's flat out nonsense.

I understand the flag has a deeper meaning to some people, but that doesn't justify them to condemn others for not feelingvthe same way. Just like there are differentcways of showing love, there are different ways of showing respect. Those who WANT and CHOOSE to portray players as disrespectful are doing so just as unjustifiably as cops are murdering innocent african americans (and others).

Lastly, just as Trump is creating a smoke screen by attacking the nfl and players, people who don't accept and respect our AMERICAN rights to protest are also creating a smoke screen by using the "military" or "disrespectful" card as way of masking what we all should really be talking about. Police brutality, people getting away with murder, and a justice system that doesn't abide by our constitution in delivering justice to people who are segregated, harassed, and murdered by the people who should be protecting us.

I'm saying it now. Put one of these cops in jail and charge him for the murder they commited and you will see less police brutality, and hence less protests.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by tondiman:

I like it because i like the 1st amendment. It's really really simple.

Protests never happen at a convenient, perfect place or time. We bag on these players for not doing anything with the platforms they have, and now that they are people still aren't happy.

Well it's not about making people happy and comfortable, it's about raising awareness, and they're doing it in a super peaceful and respectful way.

At the end of the day, police brutality is real and justice isn't bring served.

These players are as ballsy and as patriotic as it gets. I admire anyone who fights for justice.

Yeah, and I'm sure if some players decided to trot out with "Blue Lives Matter" or the names of slain officers written on their shoes all you First Amendment cheerleaders would be applauding it.

Regardless, this is not a First Amendment issue no matter how many people keep saying it...it is not an issue of the State abridging anyone's right to free speech. It's the NFL as a private employer who is allowing it, just as they could disallow it as they limit speech in many other instances, as do countless other private employers who limit speech of their employees...just ask James Damore, the Google Memo dude.

Except they're not speaking. They are protesting silently. The NFL as a private business cannot overwrite the constitution which protects our right as AMERICANS to protest. This has nothing to do with speech.

Employers that want to silence the people's voices and take away their right to protest sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship.

The problem I have with the whole thing is that the athletes think they can tell me or anyone how we should think. Standing during the National Anthem is a sign of respect. Therefore not standing would be, by default, not respecting the nation, or its soldiers, flag, etc.. You want me to listen to you when you say you mean no disrespect, but you won't, in return, listen to me when I say the action itself is disrespectful, so maybe find another way.

I equate it to an American going to England and telling someone goodbye by throwing up two fingers and saying 'peaceout'. You might be taken aback when the Brit is offended, because you unknowingly just gave him bird. You explain that in America that means goodbye and is harmless, and he explains to you that in England it means 'f**k you'. At that point, if you continued to give the 'peaceout' sign you know you are going to offend everyone you encounter. You can't be surprised then when you are now alienating people. A reasonable person would stop giving the 'peaceout' sign, not get more vocal with it and b***h when all of Great Britain doesn't change their way of thinking.

Kaep and all others gave us the 'peaceout', and we explained to them it was a 'f**k you'. The problem is, they kept giving us the 'f**k you' after knowing it was a 'f**k you'. And they wonder why President Trump called them out (which a large silent portion of our population wanted him to)?

Unfortunately, what is lost in all of this was the original point, which was to say 'goodbye' (or bring awareness to inner-city problems).

Originally posted by tondiman:

Sorry man, there are many forms of respect. So when a player is hurt on the field EVERYONE should kneel to show their respect? So you at home watching, you're disrespectful if you don't kneel? I mean common dude, that's flat out nonsense.

I understand the flag has a deeper meaning to some people, but that doesn't justify them to condemn others for not feelingvthe same way. Just like there are differentcways of showing love, there are different ways of showing respect. Those who WANT and CHOOSE to portray players as disrespectful are doing so just as unjustifiably as cops are murdering innocent african americans (and others).

Lastly, just as Trump is creating a smoke screen by attacking the nfl and players, people who don't accept and respect our AMERICAN rights to protest are also creating a smoke screen by using the "military" or "disrespectful" card as way of masking what we all should really be talking about. Police brutality, people getting away with murder, and a justice system that doesn't abide by our constitution in delivering justice to people who are segregated, harassed, and murdered by the people who should be protecting us.

I'm saying it now. Put one of these cops in jail and charge him for the murder they commited and you will see less police brutality, and hence less protests.

I never said everyone including people watching at home should kneel when a player is injured lol... you just put words into my mouth. Do you stand with your hand over your heart when the anthem is played when you're at home? No lol.

Just stop making excuses trying to find ways to explain that's it's respectful to kneel during the national anthem. You sound foolish.

Originally posted by mv49erfan:

I never said everyone including people watching at home should kneel when a player is injured lol... you just put words into my mouth. Do you stand with your hand over your heart when the anthem is played when you're at home? No lol.

Just stop making excuses trying to find ways to explain that's it's respectful to kneel during the national anthem. You sound foolish.

But yes, the main issue Kaepernick attempted to bring to fruition was police brutality... and it's extremely unfortunate that this occurs out there in the US. There's just no possible way you can point a finger at either the cop or the victim and say "it's all your fault!" Policemen risk their lives daily protecting citizens of the US by enforcing laws. If a cop asks you to do something, you do it. This is where it gets tricky:

The victim often feels as if they didn't do anything against the law, which in some cases, they didn't. But so so so many people could still be living if they just listened and obeyed policemen. This is why we have court. You can negotiate at court why you're innocent, not in an in-the-moment scenario where something dangerous could occur. Like I said in one of my previous posts, these police shootings are such bang-bang, snap of the finger quick situations where it's difficult to point a finger as to who's guilty.

Long story short, cops should have better training, but citizens should also obey policemen even if they feel they've done nothing wrong.

Originally posted by tondiman:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by tondiman:

I like it because i like the 1st amendment. It's really really simple.

Protests never happen at a convenient, perfect place or time. We bag on these players for not doing anything with the platforms they have, and now that they are people still aren't happy.

Well it's not about making people happy and comfortable, it's about raising awareness, and they're doing it in a super peaceful and respectful way.

At the end of the day, police brutality is real and justice isn't bring served.

These players are as ballsy and as patriotic as it gets. I admire anyone who fights for justice.

Yeah, and I'm sure if some players decided to trot out with "Blue Lives Matter" or the names of slain officers written on their shoes all you First Amendment cheerleaders would be applauding it.

Regardless, this is not a First Amendment issue no matter how many people keep saying it...it is not an issue of the State abridging anyone's right to free speech. It's the NFL as a private employer who is allowing it, just as they could disallow it as they limit speech in many other instances, as do countless other private employers who limit speech of their employees...just ask James Damore, the Google Memo dude.

Except they're not speaking. They are protesting silently. The NFL as a private business cannot overwrite the constitution which protects our right as AMERICANS to protest. This has nothing to do with speech.

Employers that want to silence the people's voices and take away their right to protest sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship.

So you think "speech" refers just to words being literally spoken?
Burning a US flag can occur with nary a syllable being uttered, but it's still "speech" and still FA-protected.

You are wrong saying the NFL or any private employer can't "overwrite the constitution"...for the hundredth time, the FA deals with the State, aka "the government" not being able to abridge the right to free speech/expression, it doesn't cover private employers like the NFL who limit speech of employees ALL THE TIME.

Again, let some of the players who are being brow-beaten into this childish protest do something on the field/sideline to honor slain cops or, say 9/11 victims, and many of these First Amendment warriors would suddenly have a very different take, as would the NFL...or I should say as the NFL did.

Originally posted by strickac:
Mainly, I just don't see it as productive. It's divisive and meant to strike a nerve. That's why it's being done. Now we have children doing it. GTFOH! This is the least racist our country has ever been. We spent the past decade with a black president.

I firmly believe the more we talk about racism and the more groups isolate themselves, the longer the condition exists.

And yes, it is disrespectful to military when you dishonor our flag and anthem.

Boom! Totally agree on all three statements

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by tondiman:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by tondiman:

I like it because i like the 1st amendment. It's really really simple.

Protests never happen at a convenient, perfect place or time. We bag on these players for not doing anything with the platforms they have, and now that they are people still aren't happy.

Well it's not about making people happy and comfortable, it's about raising awareness, and they're doing it in a super peaceful and respectful way.

At the end of the day, police brutality is real and justice isn't bring served.

These players are as ballsy and as patriotic as it gets. I admire anyone who fights for justice.

Yeah, and I'm sure if some players decided to trot out with "Blue Lives Matter" or the names of slain officers written on their shoes all you First Amendment cheerleaders would be applauding it.

Regardless, this is not a First Amendment issue no matter how many people keep saying it...it is not an issue of the State abridging anyone's right to free speech. It's the NFL as a private employer who is allowing it, just as they could disallow it as they limit speech in many other instances, as do countless other private employers who limit speech of their employees...just ask James Damore, the Google Memo dude.

Except they're not speaking. They are protesting silently. The NFL as a private business cannot overwrite the constitution which protects our right as AMERICANS to protest. This has nothing to do with speech.

Employers that want to silence the people's voices and take away their right to protest sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship.

So you think "speech" refers just to words being literally spoken?
Burning a US flag can occur with nary a syllable being uttered, but it's still "speech" and still FA-protected.

You are wrong saying the NFL or any private employer can't "overwrite the constitution"...for the hundredth time, the FA deals with the State, aka "the government" not being able to abridge the right to free speech/expression, it doesn't cover private employers like the NFL who limit speech of employees ALL THE TIME.

Again, let some of the players who are being brow-beaten into this childish protest do something on the field/sideline to honor slain cops or, say 9/11 victims, and many of these First Amendment warriors would suddenly have a very different take, as would the NFL...or I should say as the NFL did.

Last I checked slain cops and 9/11 victims already get honored.

This silent protest is making America talk about why they are protesting. It's forcing the issue because it's been ignored.

You think it's childish, I don't.

You think the NFL should overwrite the FA, I don't.

I think Mr. Trump needs to stop making childish comments about the NFL. This mess started with his tweets.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
No I dislike it.

The players say it isn't about our military and isn't disrespecting the flag.

Many of the people against this so called protest say it is about the military and disrespecting the flag.

IMO, w/all the college grads and smart people out there; they could come up w/something MUCH BETTER to get their point across.

It isn't about the flag , anthem , or military.

It is just a vehicle.

You think Rosa Parks was about bus service?

You think cafeteria sit ins are about the food?

You think the sit ins at dept stores in the 60s were about the clothes?

HEY Runtz - DID you read what I wrote!

I said they should come up w/something better!!!

That means if their concern is about social justice - find a better way to do it that won't be misconstrued as anti-military or anti American.

IMO, what they're doing is part of the problem and not part of the solution.

And PLEASE - don't equate what these people are doing to Rosa Parks or those brave souls who got severely beaten in the cafeterias!!!!

What she and they did was truly heroic!

So, get off your soap box and read what I actually wrote.

Originally posted by JR80Forever:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

So you think "speech" refers just to words being literally spoken?
Burning a US flag can occur with nary a syllable being uttered, but it's still "speech" and still FA-protected.

You are wrong saying the NFL or any private employer can't "overwrite the constitution"...for the hundredth time, the FA deals with the State, aka "the government" not being able to abridge the right to free speech/expression, it doesn't cover private employers like the NFL who limit speech of employees ALL THE TIME.

Again, let some of the players who are being brow-beaten into this childish protest do something on the field/sideline to honor slain cops or, say 9/11 victims, and many of these First Amendment warriors would suddenly have a very different take, as would the NFL...or I should say as the NFL did.

Last I checked slain cops and 9/11 victims already get honored.

This silent protest is making America talk about why they are protesting. It's forcing the issue because it's been ignored.

You think it's childish, I don't.

You think the NFL should overwrite the FA, I don't.

I think Mr. Trump needs to stop making childish comments about the NFL. This mess started with his tweets.

I guess all that honoring being done is why the NFL didn't allow a helmet sticker to honor the slain Dallas cops, and why they denied permission for a player to wear "9/11 shoes".

Yes, this idiotic protest is childish, and disrespectful to boot.

And I guess this has to be repeated ad nauseum, but it's not a question of the NFL "overwriting the FA" because the FA does not apply in this situation.

The NFL already is on a path to not exist as we know it...could take 20, 30, 50 years, but with the movements underway to eliminate youth tackle football, high school football, and some even pushing for a ban at the collegiate level, not to mention reduced participation already seen in many areas, the NFL will eventually see that lifeblood choked out. And anyone who doesn't think this is happening is sorely mistaken, I've seen it firsthand.

So if the NFL wants to expedite that process by pissing off a sizable portion of their customer base, I really don't give a s**t, it's an odd business decision but it's a choice they're free to make, maybe things will still work out just fine.

§176. Respect for flagNo disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning . Well after reading the flag code it appears that the flag is being disrespected in a large number of ways. I don't really see how kneeling is any worse than alot of the stuff being done daily.

P. S. The whole Trump versus the NFL is just his vindictive way of getting back at the nfl since they have been not allowing him to play with the big boys. Its all spite which he has shown over and over since he has been the president. This has been going on since the eighties and he finally got to wag his crooked finger at them and someone will actually listen this time. He probally dosn't give a rats patooty about the kneeling but it is his opportunity to get them back for not letting him play.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by JR80Forever:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

So you think "speech" refers just to words being literally spoken?
Burning a US flag can occur with nary a syllable being uttered, but it's still "speech" and still FA-protected.

You are wrong saying the NFL or any private employer can't "overwrite the constitution"...for the hundredth time, the FA deals with the State, aka "the government" not being able to abridge the right to free speech/expression, it doesn't cover private employers like the NFL who limit speech of employees ALL THE TIME.

Again, let some of the players who are being brow-beaten into this childish protest do something on the field/sideline to honor slain cops or, say 9/11 victims, and many of these First Amendment warriors would suddenly have a very different take, as would the NFL...or I should say as the NFL did.

Last I checked slain cops and 9/11 victims already get honored.

This silent protest is making America talk about why they are protesting. It's forcing the issue because it's been ignored.

You think it's childish, I don't.

You think the NFL should overwrite the FA, I don't.

I think Mr. Trump needs to stop making childish comments about the NFL. This mess started with his tweets.

I guess all that honoring being done is why the NFL didn't allow a helmet sticker to honor the slain Dallas cops, and why they denied permission for a player to wear "9/11 shoes".

Yes, this idiotic protest is childish, and disrespectful to boot.

And I guess this has to be repeated ad nauseum, but it's not a question of the NFL "overwriting the FA" because the FA does not apply in this situation.

The NFL already is on a path to not exist as we know it...could take 20, 30, 50 years, but with the movements underway to eliminate youth tackle football, high school football, and some even pushing for a ban at the collegiate level, not to mention reduced participation already seen in many areas, the NFL will eventually see that lifeblood choked out. And anyone who doesn't think this is happening is sorely mistaken, I've seen it firsthand.

So if the NFL wants to expedite that process by pissing off a sizable portion of their customer base, I really don't give a s**t, it's an odd business decision but it's a choice they're free to make, maybe things will still work out just fine.

I hope your right and this works itself out. I am glad we can agree on that.

I hope I am not the only person that thinks Donald could single handily end this protest by Evolving and realize the s**t storm he started.

Prior to his comments nobody really cared and or noticed the kneeling. It probably would have fazed out.

I personally don't care about politics. Football is way more important to me. Donald attacked something ALOT of us love. I am glad the NFL is sticking up to him.