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Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I just don't agree with your whole premise, especially when you bring up guys who barely saw the field, so either their speed was influencing the defense from on the bench or you are just throwing out stuff to make excuses for a QB who simply started visibly regressing as soon as the NFL had some actual tape on him, his tendencies, his weaknesses against man coverage and the blitz, his tendency to get baited towards running across the middle where defenders would be waiting as well as staring down his primary target. There was too much for NFL defenses to exploit.

It wans't the offense, it wasn't the coach, it wasn't the GM, it was the QB. At some point your quarterback has to step up and show progress, even when everything around them isn't perfect, especially when they are being paid like a franchise QB.

I think in a vertical passing offense with a good run game and a strong OL, Kaepernick could be a pretty good game manager, but that is about it. Much like a Tyrod Taylor, a guy who puts up some nice numbers but has many of the same limitations as a passer and as a result, will be a journeyman QB for the rest of his career.

It took Steve young 3 years before he mastered the art of reading defenses. In the meantime, he was coached by a legend and had legendary WR's. Don't tell me AJ Jenkins was on Harbaugh. I'll state again what you haven't really refuted. When did Baalke draft a credible NFL TE and WR?

Not going to pretend Baalke had the whole drafting WR thing down but you're giving Kap way too much credit and same thing for Harbaugh.

Let's not forget Harbaugh couldn't identify talent on his own rosters from Stanford. Letting guys like Baldwin and Sherman go to Seattle while he acquired studs like Jonathan Martin. We know Baalke was ass at this point but we have no idea if it would be any better with Harbaugh controlling the players.

What we do know is that Harbaugh was super stubborn about adjusting his offenses in that he didn't...where as Kyle is always trying to improve and do something different Harbaugh basically bashed his head against the wall until he broke through.

And I think the issue with Kap wasn't that he didn't know the offense but that he just couldn't process the offense and what the other team was doing as fast as was needed on the field. He was a smart guy so that wasn't a question but he just never improved in the mental game on the field and that's what held him back. The fact that he took on Harbaugh's hard ass persona didn't help things either. It's like he was so hell bent on proving people wrong and making himself his own man that he failed to do the work others have done to get better.

For someone who looked as good as he did the year we went to the SB it really was a damn shame. I thought he was going to be something special but the improvement just never came.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Can't have delivery touch or timing if the O Line isn't pass blocking and if the WR's and TE's cant separate, or catch passes.

A QB can make their OL look a lot better, they can also make it look a lot worse by holding on to the football too long, not seeing open receivers and being indecisive, not to mention directly running into sacks.

Also an elongated delivery has nothing to do with OL play. That is a mechanical issue.

Garoppolo is the first QB the 49ers have had in a long time who actually upgrades the OL due to his fast decision making and quick release.

BRAVO!! Last year was the first time in a LONG time that I could actually ENJOY watching our QB throw the stinking football. Lord it was refreshing seeing our QB make quick decisions, lead receivers open, hit the seams. Was like a drink of water after being stranded in the desert!
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Apparently jalen Ramsay isn't sold on jimmy g..
Said jimmy g "wasn't dicing up there defense" it was all scheme.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Jalen-Ramsey-says-Jimmy-Garoppolo-shouldnt-have-made-NFL-Top-100-Players-list-119357660/Amp/

Scheme only gets you as far as the players ability to execute the scheme. The 49ers were running the same scheme with Hoyer and Beathard, yet the results were so vastly different.

People like to use the "system QB" moniker as a putdown but all that tells me is you have a guy who can execute at a ridiculous level in a given offense. If it was all just the system, Steve Bono and Ryan Mallet would have been All Pro level QB's.

Exactly!

Not to mention what successful QB isn't a "system QB"?

Aaron Rodgers? Same system his whole career.
Drew Brees? There was a reason SD drafted Rivers and it wasn't because he was on his way to being a HOFer. How did he look the one season Sean Payton was suspended with the Saints? Yes he still put up big numbers(same system after all) but his accuracy dipped big time and he led the league in picks that year without Payton.
Peyton Manning? Dude had the same OC for like 12 years and basically took his system with him(one of the reasons he didn't want to sign here and run Jim's offense)
Joe Montana?
Steve Young?

Typically when you're a successful QB you stay with the same team and your coaches have nice safe jobs.

Not to mention the system and coaching doesn't make the reads, doesn't make the accurate throws, doesn't help pocket poise and other traits successful QBs need to play at a high level.

Ramsey is a great player but he's coming off as a butthurt moron. Derp it was the scheme! Well no chit. If Jimmy just stood back there and tried to rifle passes down the field 49ers would've lost and Jimmy probably would've died.

It's called football...

Yeah you can't have just an amazing OC or just an amazing QB to be successful...gotta have both. If it was all Shanny that made that Jags defense look like chickens with their head cutoff, well we're sitting pretty

Need a QB that can actually run that offense and you know execute it lol. He hasn't earned the right to say he's the man yet...I got a feeling that will change soon
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Jun 26, 2018 at 7:52 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Apparently jalen Ramsay isn't sold on jimmy g..
Said jimmy g "wasn't dicing up there defense" it was all scheme.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Jalen-Ramsey-says-Jimmy-Garoppolo-shouldnt-have-made-NFL-Top-100-Players-list-119357660/Amp/

Scheme only gets you as far as the players ability to execute the scheme. The 49ers were running the same scheme with Hoyer and Beathard, yet the results were so vastly different.

People like to use the "system QB" moniker as a putdown but all that tells me is you have a guy who can execute at a ridiculous level in a given offense. If it was all just the system, Steve Bono and Ryan Mallet would have been All Pro level QB's.

When I've watched that game (5-6 times lol) looked like jimmy g was doing some slicing and dicing!
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Giedi:
It took Steve young 3 years before he mastered the art of reading defenses. In the meantime, he was coached by a legend and had legendary WR's. Don't tell me AJ Jenkins was on Harbaugh. I'll state again what you haven't really refuted. When did Baalke draft a credible NFL TE and WR?

It shouldn't take a QB four years to learn an offense. That they were still having to simplify it further by that point and people like Cossell were repeatedly pointing out that Kaepernick was just simply not seeing the field and leaving a lot of plays out there, should have been a clear enough signal that he just wasn't the guy. You can't blame the receivers when there are wide open receivers and the QB just isn't seeing them.

"To me, he just doesn't look comfortable in the offense. … People say, 'Fire Greg Roman! What are they doing? It's vanilla,' " the former Raiders star told Sirius XM Radio. "Why do you think they're scaling it back? That's what the fans out there need to understand.

"What, do you think the coordinator got dumb overnight? You think Jim Harbaugh doesn't know what he's doing? The quarterback's not making the right decisions. The quarterback isn't making the right checks. So what are we going to do? We're going to make it more simplistic. We're going to have a little bit less volume in the offense."

Greg Cosell, a senior producer at NFL Films, cited a specific example against the St. Louis Rams earlier this season. He said that on third-and-short, the Rams defense played a Cover-Zero — meaning no safety in the middle of the field. In his film review, he saw Roman had a play call to beat that defense with a post route for (Michael) Crabtree to run through a "wide-open middle."

"(Kaepernick) needs to know right away that that's where the ball should be thrown," Cosell told KNBR radio. "But he was totally focused on (Anquan) Boldin, who was double-covered. No recognition. And Kaepernick just dropped his eyes and ran into a sack. Plays like that are what concern you over time, because that's pre-snap recognition."
I'm not about to launch into a dissertation about how speed affects the offense and the ability for the QB to be effective. What I will say is just look at Kyle's offense - it's *fast.* You think Colin's effectiveness from 2012 to 2013 just because he couldn't read defenses? I won't disagree with that, but the GM is drafting WR's that didn't fit Harbaugh's schemes. Why? Because they weren't talking. Baalke sucked as a GM and couldn't draft a decent WR if they dropped on his head while he was on the clock. The GM is *not* supposed to be in control of the ballclub. He's a support to the Coach. The Coach is the one that should be the primary architect of the team, not the GM. It's the Coach that has to coach on game day, in his schemes, and in his game plans. Instead of having Harbaugh's back, he stabbed Harbaugh in the back. Again, look at Kyle's offense, he can go Air Coryell if he wanted to. He can go WCO if he wanted to. The only thing he probably couldn't do consistently is a ground and pound offense. Key to *both* the Air Coryell and the WCO is that pass catching TE. Baalke never could get that right either.

As for Colin developing, he lost a lot of speed at the WR position after 2012, that will hamper anybody's development if he's used to speed and suddenly the next year it's not there. It's going to affect you as a QB. You tell me what happened to Terry Bradshaw before and after when he got Swann and Stallworth.
Originally posted by Mankster:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Can't have delivery touch or timing if the O Line isn't pass blocking and if the WR's and TE's cant separate, or catch passes.

A QB can make their OL look a lot better, they can also make it look a lot worse by holding on to the football too long, not seeing open receivers and being indecisive, not to mention directly running into sacks.

Also an elongated delivery has nothing to do with OL play. That is a mechanical issue.

Garoppolo is the first QB the 49ers have had in a long time who actually upgrades the OL due to his fast decision making and quick release.

BRAVO!! Last year was the first time in a LONG time that I could actually ENJOY watching our QB throw the stinking football. Lord it was refreshing seeing our QB make quick decisions, lead receivers open, hit the seams. Was like a drink of water after being stranded in the desert!

I don't understand how anyone cannot be excited about Jimmy on this team.

I wanted us to hold him off from playing because I thought there was no way he could be successful and we'd essentially be throwing him out there to get killed behind a poor OL, playing with less than stellar cast and within a system brand new to him and difficult to grasp versus some talented defenses or at least defnses that could rush the passer(Houston)

Boy I've never liked being more wrong. Playing him last year may have bumped his price but it also showed us exactly what he can do when things aren't perfect. I don't know if he'll be the next Joe Montana/Tom Brady but gun to my head I'm putting money on him being a stud. The whole "wait til teams get more tape on him" argument is garbage.

Great QBs no amount of tape will help. Maybe you can get them to have a stinker of a game from time to time but they will beat you 90% of the time.

Tom Brady has been in this league for how long? How is his system QB thing going? How is his "just need more tape on him" going? When he's done he'll probably have the second most games played by any non kicker outside of Jerry Rice(he was ok too) there's plenty of tape on him and guy is playing some of the best football of his career.
Why would Jalen Ramsey be super impressed with Garoppolo? He only threw for 240ish yards in that game. He played well, but the Jags lost that game due to their defense being asleep for the first quarter and Blake Bortles throwing 3 dumb picks.
Originally posted by Jack49ers84:
Why would Jalen Ramsey be super impressed with Garoppolo? He only threw for 240ish yards in that game. He played well, but the Jags lost that game due to their defense being asleep for the first quarter and Blake Bortles throwing 3 dumb picks.

I know right? His defense only gave up 44 points to Jimmy G.
I always wonder what a quick release qb like Dan Marino with additional good foot work, can do in the WCO— gonna find out with Jimmy.

Shanny serving up a lot of speed to go with that quick release. Remember Kyle case out Jimmy during the draft when he was with the Browns, so he knows very well how he would use and complement Jimmy
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jun 26, 2018 at 8:23 AM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I always wonder what a quick release qb like Dan Marino with additional good foot work, can do in the WCO— gonna find out with Jimmy.




Man I swear some people on twitter should be euthanized so they can't spread their stupidity.

I got into a back and forth with what looks like a Packers fan talking about how Jimmy played against Jags backups and it was all scheme(agreeing with Ramsey)

I was like...what backups? His response was the Jags played backups on offense and it wasn't until Jags took out Fournette that we started playing with great field position.

This was the final brilliance from the dude...

He drove once down the field lmao that doesn't mean s**t after that he couldn't do it again jags adjusted again scheme won not jimmy g

Am I taking crazy pills here? Adjusted by giving up twice as many TDs in the second half? Where do people come up with this stuff?
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I always wonder what a quick release qb like Dan Marino with additional good foot work, can do in the WCO— gonna find out with Jimmy.





Let's hope the Niners give Jimmy a more consistent running game and defense, than the Packers for Rodgers. He should have more than just 1 after so many good years with them.
Originally posted by Jack49ers84:
Why would Jalen Ramsey be super impressed with Garoppolo? He only threw for 240ish yards in that game. He played well, but the Jags lost that game due to their defense being asleep for the first quarter and Blake Bortles throwing 3 dumb picks.

I know right beathard would have thrown for 500 yards vs that s**tty Jags defense....
Originally posted by genus49:
Man I swear some people on twitter should be euthanized so they can't spread their stupidity.

I got into a back and forth with what looks like a Packers fan talking about how Jimmy played against Jags backups and it was all scheme(agreeing with Ramsey)

I was like...what backups? His response was the Jags played backups on offense and it wasn't until Jags took out Fournette that we started playing with great field position.

This was the final brilliance from the dude...

He drove once down the field lmao that doesn't mean s**t after that he couldn't do it again jags adjusted again scheme won not jimmy g

Am I taking crazy pills here? Adjusted by giving up twice as many TDs in the second half? Where do people come up with this stuff?

Twitter is a cesspool of hate & stupidity...I use it for news and sports info dats it.

Arguing with some dummy who's a packers fan (about SF vd jags s**t) is kinda pointless (trust me)...dude is totally wrong, but will never admit it lol.

Trolls gonna troll, not sure why anyone would want to spend their day doing that, but a lot of people do.
Originally posted by Jack49ers84:
Why would Jalen Ramsey be super impressed with Garoppolo? He only threw for 240ish yards in that game. He played well, but the Jags lost that game due to their defense being asleep for the first quarter and Blake Bortles throwing 3 dumb picks.

Same reason that Calais Campbell was?

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/12/28/16828144/calais-campbell-tweet-jimmy-garoppolo-quick-release-49ers-vs-jaguars
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