Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by billbird2111:
Imagine having a defense that only gives up two touchdowns and the score is 14-10 at halftime. Still think Jimmy gets hurt in that game? I don't. I think we stick with the original Shanahan game plan.

If ANY team is down 35-10 at the half, the defense with the big lead KNOWS the other team will be forced to throw the ball nearly every play in the second half in an attempt to catch up. No offensive line in the WORLD can provide five seconds of protection when opposing defenses KNOW the QB has to throw the ball.

Now, imagine what KC's defense would have done had the score been a little more manageable at the half? They would have been forced to contend with Breida and multiple running backs. That slows down a pass rush considerably, and gives offensive linemen a decent chance at providing better protection.

It all starts, and ends, with our defense. Yes, we need Jimmy. But if our defense can't stop anyone? We're not going anywhere with or without Jimmy.

I agree it's all a trickle down effect.

Better pass rush should create a better defense.
Better defense should create more opportunities for the offense while helping them stay balanced.
Offense being more balanced allows them to keep the opposing defense from being able to concentrate on pass or run specifically which makes it easier to control the clock and score points.
Controlling the clock and scoring more points allows your pass rush to create havoc and get more turnovers.

It's a cycle...and one I hope we see happen very frequently with this 49ers team and as we move forward.

We don't have to go back too far to see how the offense and Jimmy looked with an even inferior OL in 2017 but a defense that was playing much better than last year early on.

Improve that OL(imo Staley, McGlinch, Tomlinson, Person and Richburg are better than Staley, Brown/Beadles, Tomlinson, Fusco and Kilgore)
Improve the WRs(no question this group is much better what we had in 2017)
Improve the RBs(ditto)
Improve the TEs(Kittle taking that game to the next level)

...QB will look much better.

I think the team has addressed those issues to be honest with you. I also think the poor play of Foster last year caught them off guard. Foster was far more effective as a rookie in 2017 than in his second year, where he essentially played with a single arm and got away with it for six or seven games. He was horrible. We couldn't stop the run or the pass. And, I don't think the team was expecting that. Or, maybe they were and they were hopeful for something else and it just didn't happen.

So, what happens? The 49ers go all in for defensive upgrades in free agency and draft the best pass rusher available in the draft. A good pass rush masks a lot of weaknesses. Just ONE player can make a difference. The 49ers brought in three. If just one out of the three makes an impact, oh my, I think back to the days of what Dwayne Board did in 1981 or Fred Dean in 1984. Both of them were one-man wrecking crews.

Time will tell. It isn't long now. Football season is just a few months off.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Well Garnett was plug-and-play ready, just not for this offense. Garnett was drafted to play in a different offense and I would even go further to say that Baalke really only had an eye for road-grader guards (Iupati). You're right about them going higher in the draft. However, I think we've just not scouted well in that area and the coaching/development hasn't been great either. Generally speaking, I'd prefer a better WR over a better OL player but in reality, you need both. Yes a WR getting separation helps with the timing for pass protection. The problem is that there are fewer WRs who can get open consistently versus good OL players who are north of top 15 OLs in the NFL.

You can scheme WRs open and to a degree, you can scheme protection, but I'd say that having better than average talent and coaching with your OL is more necessary to make that jump from .500 to contender than having better WRs given the pass-rush/defensive line competition team experience when getting to the next level. If we're just talking about fielding a .500 squad, then yes we don't really need to keep Jimmy upright at all times. However, if we want to make the playoffs, the more Jimmy's upright, we have a much higher chance of making the postseason.

A defense can take away the teams best receiver. It's hard for a defense to completely nullify the effect of a very good OL.

I hate to keep beating the dead horse here but look at the Patriots.

Where are their OLs built inside?

Shaq Mason - 4th round
Joe Thuney - 3rd round(same draft we got Garnett with a trade up into the first )
David Andrews - undrafted

They've constantly added guys late in the draft and coached them up with Tom Brady making them look much better. I could be wrong but in their whole time with Brady they've had 1 interior guy taken in the first round and that's Logan Mankins who many people were shocked by and it was also #32 overall pick.

Just looked it up actually...they haven't taken an interior OLman in the draft outside of Mankings in the first or 2nd round since 2000. Belichick's first draft with the Pats when they took Adrian Klemm.

That's 1 interior OLman drafted in the first 2 rounds by the Pats since 2001.

Not about to count but they've taken WR in the first 2 rounds much more since then.

Coaching, development and scheme goes a long way. Having a QB who can make the proper reads, adjustments at the line and get that ball out quick while having good pocket presence makes it that much better.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
My whole point is that a developmental OLinemen >>> Developmental WR, which you acknowledged that we drafted one.

Pettis getting a TD was nice and he performed well. Still, WRs take longer to develop than an Olinmen, this is a fact.

Staley signing an extension doesn't make him any younger. lol. He's getting up there in age and we need to groom his replacement. That is the point.

Wishnoawsky had 3 blocked punts last season. Not reaching at all. That is a fact and that is not good. He even acknowledges that and has been working on it.

It's actually not a fact....OL coming out of college now aren't day one ready to roll (like in the past) based on all of these spread offenses. Even guys who come from a pro-style offense and win the outland trophy (Garnett) aren't plug and play anymore.

They're grooming his replacement and they drafted him 9th overall last yr. You let me know when Joe loses a step, sure as s**t wasn't last yr

So the blocked punt had nothing to do with the line protecting him? I didn't see the blocks, so I truly don't know. All I've read from draft analysis is he's ready to roll day 1.

We'll agree to disagree on whether WRs or OL are more NFL ready at draft. I think you are just saying that to support your argument and don't really believe that. Many colleges run spread offense so that doesn't even make sense. It proves that OL are more NFL spread offense ready.

Mike McGlinchey is replacing staley, but who then takes McGlinchey's spot? We need to make sure there is a tackle ready to step in. Staley is done soon, that is the point.

Wichnowsky admits himself the blocks are due to his style. Are you now going to argue Wishnowsky doesn't know his own faults?

The only downside of his final college season was three blocked punts, something he worked to eliminate during his offseason with the 49ers.
"I've got to get the ball off in 1.3 seconds, which is what I've been doing pretty consistently," Wishnowsky said. "And the snap is a .7. So if the whole operation is 2 seconds or below, you should be good. Then, also launch point. You want to pretty much as it hits your foot (you're) directly behind the snapper, so you're not at risk of getting it blocked."

Is there a rule that we cannot draft OL next year or year after that?

Next year's OL class is much stronger than this class. You want to use 2nd/3rd round picks to replace players who are playing at a high level for a few more seasons?

If the D-line is as strong as we think it is, addressing the O-line next year will be king!

getting the O-line dialed in next year = Championship!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Blame the FQB, lol. Maybe we need to bring back Sunshine.

Do you think the OL is average or better at PP?

Mullens and CJ are the FQBs

He was calling out JG.
CJ was a horrible draft pick, I agree with that.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

If the D-line is as strong as we think it is, addressing the O-line next year will be king!

getting the O-line dialed in next year = Championship!

RiP Jimmy G

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
My whole point is that a developmental OLinemen >>> Developmental WR, which you acknowledged that we drafted one.

Pettis getting a TD was nice and he performed well. Still, WRs take longer to develop than an Olinmen, this is a fact.

Staley signing an extension doesn't make him any younger. lol. He's getting up there in age and we need to groom his replacement. That is the point.

Wishnoawsky had 3 blocked punts last season. Not reaching at all. That is a fact and that is not good. He even acknowledges that and has been working on it.

It's actually not a fact....OL coming out of college now aren't day one ready to roll (like in the past) based on all of these spread offenses. Even guys who come from a pro-style offense and win the outland trophy (Garnett) aren't plug and play anymore.

They're grooming his replacement and they drafted him 9th overall last yr. You let me know when Joe loses a step, sure as s**t wasn't last yr

So the blocked punt had nothing to do with the line protecting him? I didn't see the blocks, so I truly don't know. All I've read from draft analysis is he's ready to roll day 1.

We'll agree to disagree on whether WRs or OL are more NFL ready at draft. I think you are just saying that to support your argument and don't really believe that. Many colleges run spread offense so that doesn't even make sense. It proves that OL are more NFL spread offense ready.

Mike McGlinchey is replacing staley, but who then takes McGlinchey's spot? We need to make sure there is a tackle ready to step in. Staley is done soon, that is the point.

Wichnowsky admits himself the blocks are due to his style. Are you now going to argue Wishnowsky doesn't know his own faults?

The only downside of his final college season was three blocked punts, something he worked to eliminate during his offseason with the 49ers.
"I've got to get the ball off in 1.3 seconds, which is what I've been doing pretty consistently," Wishnowsky said. "And the snap is a .7. So if the whole operation is 2 seconds or below, you should be good. Then, also launch point. You want to pretty much as it hits your foot (you're) directly behind the snapper, so you're not at risk of getting it blocked."

Is there a rule that we cannot draft OL next year or year after that?

Next year's OL class is much stronger than this class. You want to use 2nd/3rd round picks to replace players who are playing at a high level for a few more seasons?

If the D-line is as strong as we think it is, addressing the O-line next year will be king!

getting the O-line dialed in next year = Championship!

I want what Indy has finally. Luck's release is quicker than ever. Nelson has been unreal. After all those years of ineptitude, their O-line sure looked All-World last year. I believe over a six game span in the middle of last season, Luck wasn't even touched.

Indy and the Patriots finished 1/2 in sacks allowed last year. Indy was #1. They gave up 18. We gave up 48. Oopsie

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Blame the FQB, lol. Maybe we need to bring back Sunshine.

Do you think the OL is average or better at PP?

I don't think any of the guards available in FA were gonna help. Could we have taken a guard like Risner in the 2nd and be better? Yah possibly. I'd be worried about WR though. Team prioritized Deebo. Is what it is.

I would've taken McGovern and Gardner-Johnson with my picks. I do think they missed there. But I didn't see either one starting as rookies.

Tomlinson is the only OL that concerns me. I thought Person was actually pretty good when he was right. Richburg needs to be much better but they weren't gonna give up on him after a year so it's what it is.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
He was calling out JG.
CJ was a horrible draft pick, I agree with that.

Um No I was calling out mr 5 seconds CJ Beathard

That said CJ wasn't horrible. You don't get elite qb play at 104. How many elite guys not named Brady have been drafted 104 or later? CJ is what he is, a backup type in this league.

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
I want what Indy has finally. Luck's release is quicker than ever. Nelson has been unreal. After all those years of ineptitude, their O-line sure looked All-World last year. I believe over a six game span in the middle of last season, Luck wasn't even touched.

Indy and the Patriots finished 1/2 in sacks allowed last year. Indy was #1. They gave up 18. We gave up 48. Oopsie

One of Indys starters is a guy who couldn't even cut it on the Seahawks.

Hey i'd love a Quentin Nelson too but they are pretty rare. You aren't gonna get that too often.

Richburg is the key. He needs to be better in 2019.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Well Garnett was plug-and-play ready, just not for this offense. Garnett was drafted to play in a different offense and I would even go further to say that Baalke really only had an eye for road-grader guards (Iupati). You're right about them going higher in the draft. However, I think we've just not scouted well in that area and the coaching/development hasn't been great either. Generally speaking, I'd prefer a better WR over a better OL player but in reality, you need both. Yes a WR getting separation helps with the timing for pass protection. The problem is that there are fewer WRs who can get open consistently versus good OL players who are north of top 15 OLs in the NFL.

You can scheme WRs open and to a degree, you can scheme protection, but I'd say that having better than average talent and coaching with your OL is more necessary to make that jump from .500 to contender than having better WRs given the pass-rush/defensive line competition team experience when getting to the next level. If we're just talking about fielding a .500 squad, then yes we don't really need to keep Jimmy upright at all times. However, if we want to make the playoffs, the more Jimmy's upright, we have a much higher chance of making the postseason.

A defense can take away the teams best receiver. It's hard for a defense to completely nullify the effect of a very good OL.

I think end of the day you gotta look at drafts, where the strength is, and who's available...they simply had Deebo graded higher than any lineman and they feel he's got a better chance playing vs anyone they could have drafted.

I like dalton in the 2nd but even he's not a true scheme fit( if we're gonna talk about that). Thing is PP is PP regardless of fit. I'm not a OL coach and I could be wrong, but wouldn't scheme fit be more about run-blocking vs pass blocking? Garnett was drafted when chip kelly was here and he ran zone-blocking as well kelly was all about getting his OL to the 2nd level and Chip reportedly loved him.

Sure a defense can take away a WR, that's why it's important to have more than one good one

I'm fine with getting OL to develop I wish they would have done it in 2018 when there was some quality to be had throughout the draft. Imo this past draft was pretty weak overall.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

If the D-line is as strong as we think it is, addressing the O-line next year will be king!

getting the O-line dialed in next year = Championship!

And there's some very good tackles....I'm not sure about guards haven't looked

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Yes, let's look at the Patriots.

The reason why the Patriots seem to have routine success select great players in lower rounds is primarily one reason; coaching. Do the 49ers have a really great OL coach that has been developing some great talent outside of the 1st round on this team? Who's been getting better at pass-protection? It's not just Richburg that faired a poor pass protection grade. McG gets a pass because he's a rook but the other vets outside of Staley weren't very good. This isn't a question about drafting and quite frankly I don't care how we build our OL, through the draft or FA. If we don't have a coach/system of development like the Patriots, you can't expect 4th, 5th and undrafted players to come right in and play like the Patriots line just as I wouldn't expect lines not coached by Bob McKittrick to play as if they were coached by him. Until we can get coaching on that level, we need to find players who can compensate for the lack of excellent coaching, and that usually means talent either by FA or via the draft. Again I don't care how it's built. The main goal and ultimate result isn't where we draft, but it's making sure the QB hits go down each successive season.

It's not just coaching (it is super important) but it's having Tom Brady and him rocking the same offense for 15+ yrs.

Nate solder wasn't amazing last yr, you can't tell me he forgot everything he learned in NE. There's a lot that goes into it

Originally posted by NinerGM:

The only reason why I don't agree with this is that when I look at our entire OL, only 2 49er picks are starting. The rest are FA. And even if I look at projected depth, I can only find two picks, possibly 3. The rest are all FA.

Despite Garnett being drafted when Kelly was coach, Baalke was the ultimate say and it's been known widely that Baalke intended to move on even from Kelly and had his own personnel agenda (coach Baalke).

The chances of having more than one good to great WR on a team in today's NFL is just as unlikely as it would be to have all 1st round picks on an OL, particularly with FA. I'm not okay getting OL to develop because we haven't shown that we can develop OL yet (Magnuson, Williams, etc.). So while we wait do we let Jimmy get hit?

I'd vote no on that proposal.

Nah dude kelly was all about Garnett go google it

Shaw talked about him and kelly being bros and how much he loved Garnett and his nastiness. Kelly was around Garnett all through the draft process.

Not sure why it matters if we drafted two guys vs having FAs? They're signed and on the team regardless. I still want to draft OL not saying I don't. Sometimes the value isn't there compared to another position. I wanted Braden smith last yr didn't happen though.

I think more and more teams have more than just one good WR. Rams, ATL, Minn, Cleveland, Pitt all come to mind

.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't get the take teams by surprise stuff? Kyle has been calling plays for a while...coaching staffs know about him. Taylor got open and killed it on 3rd downs when Jimmy was there. There was no surprised he played well. There's a reason he lead all of college football in yards his last yr (only behind Z Jones in rec as well)

The difference was JG got rid of the ball fast. CJ and Hoyer did not. He was accurate CJ and Hoyer are not.

I'll bet money Taylor has a roster spot. Taylor had a bad back all last yr and it clearly bothered him. Also what guys are you talking about? We had Pettis/Taylor/Garcon/Goodwin all out for a period of time last yr....again it shows how health plays a factor and when you don't have the proper depth, s**t like QB hits happen. Everything plays off something else even more so in Kyle's offense.

what guys am i talking about.. all of them for gods sake Uhm,. i know you hate mathews,, but we did bring in 3 new wide outs.. if kyle loved our guys as much as some fans do. he would not have done that. just like when we brought in moss and manningham. when you do that. you are telling the current wide outs... ok. i am not happy with this group we have. boys i brought in three new guys so you will have to earn it this year. last year they brought in pettis and thats it. we stayed status quo which was not good enough. same to be said for a better back up tight end