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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NYniner85:Agree. Wanted an OLineman at that spot. Oh well.
Originally posted by RTFirefly:
You guys have fun with that. Wait till he punts a few times then get back to me.
Gotta wait to see it, gladly eat crow...this team wasn't in a position to be spending a 4th rd pick on a punter imo.
Originally posted by cciowa:kyle did not over haul the wide outs because of injuries to those guys. he did it because he thinks he should be much better than what it was. mathews clicked right away with jimmy and you are all about chemistry so he is off to a good start. it may shock you and others but it would not shock me to see all three new guys make it. to see two new back up tight ends and to say good bye to celek and two wide outs from last year. . oh,,, i expected garcon to suck. we never should have kept him. a old guy coming off a broken neck. was it really taylors back? we will see. pettis is fine,,, goodwin is one who would not shock me if he does not make the roster.
Originally posted by cciowa:ross reynolds will shock some people. 85 will lose his mind if ross and jordon mathews start on day one and two of our guys get cut for them
Originally posted by RTFirefly:What does that have to do with the Wish pick? LOL, you honestly think an OL drafted in the 4th round would have single-handedly protected him this year?
I'm starting a list of Doubting Thomases. See you in September!
Originally posted by NYniner85:
We moved on from garçon, Deebo will replace him. Hurd is a wild card I'm not expecting much from him this yr...imo he's gonna be more than just a WR in this system.
Who else? Matthews is at this pt a camp body and a fighting for a spot. He's switched teams how many times in 6 yrs? This team had dogs**t at WR when Kyle and Lynch showed up in 2017.
Also what are we complaining about here? We've be discussing OL and how bad you think they are now we're talking about WRs? I'm confused
Originally posted by NYniner85:why laugh,,, i have volunteered to be on that list , nothing wrong with being cautious. after the way jed has run this place into the ground. one can not help be cautious
Originally posted by RTFirefly:
What does that have to do with the Wish pick? LOL, you honestly think an OL drafted in the 4th round would have single-handedly protected him this year?
I'm starting a list of Doubting Thomases. See you in September!
Originally posted by cciowa:Originally posted by NYniner85:We moved on from garçon, Deebo will replace him. Hurd is a wild card I'm not expecting much from him this yr...imo he's gonna be more than just a WR in this system.
Who else? Matthews is at this pt a camp body and a fighting for a spot. He's switched teams how many times in 6 yrs? This team had dogs**t at WR when Kyle and Lynch showed up in 2017.
Also what are we complaining about here? We've be discussing OL and how bad you think they are now we're talking about WRs? I'm confused
It all goes back to jimmy. he needs a good offensive line. no offense to his quick release, he needs guys who can get open and catch the ball and do something in the red zone... he has a sound run game, this thread is about jimmy yes,,, but there was a need to improve two units around him. kyle did with the wide outs and the offensive line. he did not in my opinion
Originally posted by RTFirefly:Originally posted by NYniner85:Originally posted by TheWooLick:Drafting a punter that high was dumb regardless.
We agree
You guys have fun with that. Wait till he punts a few times then get back to me.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:Originally posted by TheWooLick:He was calling out JG.
CJ was a horrible draft pick, I agree with that.
Um No I was calling out mr 5 seconds CJ Beathard
That said CJ wasn't horrible. You don't get elite qb play at 104. How many elite guys not named Brady have been drafted 104 or later? CJ is what he is, a backup type in this league.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by RTFirefly:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Drafting a punter that high was dumb regardless.
We agree
You guys have fun with that. Wait till he punts a few times then get back to me.
We shall see how he compares to the lower drafted and undrafted guys.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:Elite?
I am not sure he will hang on as a backup in the NFL. Fair point about CJ taking extra hits.
49ers should have drafted a qb on the first instead of ST.
Originally posted by cciowa:
It all goes back to jimmy. he needs a good offensive line. no offense to his quick release, he needs guys who can get open and catch the ball and do something in the red zone... he has a sound run game, this thread is about jimmy yes,,, but there was a need to improve two units around him. kyle did with the wide outs and the offensive line. he did not in my opinion
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Sorry NY but even when the 49ers had Montana and Young, both needed protection regardless of how good the QB was. Nate Solder wasn't amazing because he was playing on a different team being coached in a different system. It's not about forgetting how to play, just like McKittrick, Dante Scarnecchia is a master has been coaching OL for 36 YEARS. This quote Hoodie's says remind me of what Walsh, Holmgren, and Mooch would say about McKittrick:
Scarnecchia, arguably the most important coach Belichick has had on any staff of his, is an "offensive lineman whisperer.'' "He helps each individual player, but Dante's greatest strength is his ability to get the entire line — that sometimes includes tight ends, fullbacks, running backs and quarterbacks — to think together and to see things consistently in the same manner so we can operate as a team," Belichick said.
Sounds super familiar.....
Year after year, working with comparatively smaller linemen like Harris Barton, Guy McIntyre and Jesse Sapolu, McKittrick taught blocking techniques that protected Joe Montana and Steve Young, the 49ers' all-pro quarterbacks. ''He has developed more offensive-line knowledge than anyone, ever,'' Bill Walsh, one of McKittrick's head coaches, once said. ''His men have played longer, with better technique, more production, fewer injuries. In every possible category you can measure, he's right at the top.''
Nate Solder doesn't have that kind of resource in NY. We don't have that kind of resource with the 49ers. There's a reason why Hoodie asks a OL coach to come out of retirement at 70 years of age. Tom Brady is great, but we've seen Tom when he doesn't have protection and when he does. I don't think you can pull out one player in a system and use them a prime example of how coaching isn't as important when developing a variety of players in a system and enjoy the success the Patriots have.
I stand corrected on Kelly being for Garnett, but I still didn't see him as a fit for zone blocking even though some of what he did was similar at Stanford. The point is for me, we went after the best OG in the draft and that was something I encourage. Again as I stated, it doesn't matter how we build the line, as long as we protect Jimmy. You can't take a flyer on a year and say "we'll get around to it" when the FQB is the one who would be at the receiving end of hits or injury.
I'm pretty convinced that coaching matters more in developing OL players than probably any other position. There's too much evidence and too many coaches I respect having their say on the topic.
Originally posted by NinerGM:This doesn't matter if the other three players aren't able to prevent 125 hits (statistical correlation; only 2 of 7, 28% of teams, Dallas and Houston, and I'd even call Houston a fluke given how mobile Watson is, made the postseason in 2018 with QB hits listed 107+). I'm not really concerned with what we invested, I'm concerned with results, particularly when it comes to Jimmy. How can we even know if we have a FQB if he's constantly getting battered? It's a really simple formula for me - if you're on the right path, the hits should go down regardless of the receivers we have and quite honestly, we did have a 1377 yard receiver on this team, he was the TE so *someone* was getting separation. If a WR put up these stats, we wouldn't be complaining at all about wideout production. My argument was never that we didn't invest. That's fine invest away but clearly it wasn't enough to protect Jimmy and any QB we put under center.
Will it be this year? Who knows. Richburg isn't back from injury and his prognosis was an extensive healing time. So regardless of what we've invested, we still need our center to come back better than what we've seen and we're all hoping and praying this pans out because Jimmy's health is at risk if it doesn't.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes, let's look at the Patriots.
The reason why the Patriots seem to have routine success select great players in lower rounds is primarily one reason; coaching. Do the 49ers have a really great OL coach that has been developing some great talent outside of the 1st round on this team? Who's been getting better at pass-protection? It's not just Richburg that faired a poor pass protection grade. McG gets a pass because he's a rook but the other vets outside of Staley weren't very good. This isn't a question about drafting and quite frankly I don't care how we build our OL, through the draft or FA. If we don't have a coach/system of development like the Patriots, you can't expect 4th, 5th and undrafted players to come right in and play like the Patriots line just as I wouldn't expect lines not coached by Bob McKittrick to play as if they were coached by him. Until we can get coaching on that level, we need to find players who can compensate for the lack of excellent coaching, and that usually means talent either by FA or via the draft. Again I don't care how it's built. The main goal and ultimate result isn't where we draft, but it's making sure the QB hits go down each successive season.
It's not just coaching (it is super important) but it's having Tom Brady and him rocking the same offense for 15+ yrs.
Nate solder wasn't amazing last yr, you can't tell me he forgot everything he learned in NE. There's a lot that goes into it
Sorry NY but even when the 49ers had Montana and Young, both needed protection regardless of how good the QB was. Nate Solder wasn't amazing because he was playing on a different team being coached in a different system. It's not about forgetting how to play, just like McKittrick, Dante Scarnecchia is a master has been coaching OL for 36 YEARS. This quote Hoodie's says remind me of what Walsh, Holmgren, and Mooch would say about McKittrick:
Scarnecchia, arguably the most important coach Belichick has had on any staff of his, is an "offensive lineman whisperer.'' "He helps each individual player, but Dante's greatest strength is his ability to get the entire line — that sometimes includes tight ends, fullbacks, running backs and quarterbacks — to think together and to see things consistently in the same manner so we can operate as a team," Belichick said.
Sounds super familiar.....
Year after year, working with comparatively smaller linemen like Harris Barton, Guy McIntyre and Jesse Sapolu, McKittrick taught blocking techniques that protected Joe Montana and Steve Young, the 49ers' all-pro quarterbacks. ''He has developed more offensive-line knowledge than anyone, ever,'' Bill Walsh, one of McKittrick's head coaches, once said. ''His men have played longer, with better technique, more production, fewer injuries. In every possible category you can measure, he's right at the top.''
Nate Solder doesn't have that kind of resource in NY. We don't have that kind of resource with the 49ers. There's a reason why Hoodie asks a OL coach to come out of retirement at 70 years of age. Tom Brady is great, but we've seen Tom when he doesn't have protection and when he does. I don't think you can pull out one player in a system and use them a prime example of how coaching isn't as important when developing a variety of players in a system and enjoy the success the Patriots have.
I stand corrected on Kelly being for Garnett, but I still didn't see him as a fit for zone blocking even though some of what he did was similar at Stanford. The point is for me, we went after the best OG in the draft and that was something I encourage. Again as I stated, it doesn't matter how we build the line, as long as we protect Jimmy. You can't take a flyer on a year and say "we'll get around to it" when the FQB is the one who would be at the receiving end of hits or injury.
I'm pretty convinced that coaching matters more in developing OL players than probably any other position. There's too much evidence and too many coaches I respect having their say on the topic.
