Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Drafting a punter that high was dumb regardless.

We agree

You guys have fun with that. Wait till he punts a few times then get back to me.

We shall see how he compares to the lower drafted and undrafted guys.

It's not a fair comparison to compare his pick to ALL of the lower and undrafted guys. Pick one. Pick any one. Wish is only one pick, and he was the best college punter out there. But he was only ONE pick.

Adequate punters are not hard to find.

Originally posted by jvangeystel:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

This doesn't matter if the other three players aren't able to prevent 125 hits (statistical correlation; only 2 of 7, 28% of teams, Dallas and Houston, and I'd even call Houston a fluke given how mobile Watson is, made the postseason in 2018 with QB hits listed 107+). I'm not really concerned with what we invested, I'm concerned with results, particularly when it comes to Jimmy. How can we even know if we have a FQB if he's constantly getting battered? It's a really simple formula for me - if you're on the right path, the hits should go down regardless of the receivers we have and quite honestly, we did have a 1377 yard receiver on this team, he was the TE so *someone* was getting separation. If a WR put up these stats, we wouldn't be complaining at all about wideout production. My argument was never that we didn't invest. That's fine invest away but clearly it wasn't enough to protect Jimmy and any QB we put under center.

Will it be this year? Who knows. Richburg isn't back from injury and his prognosis was an extensive healing time. So regardless of what we've invested, we still need our center to come back better than what we've seen and we're all hoping and praying this pans out because Jimmy's health is at risk if it doesn't.

Well your article says Richburg will be ready for training camp so we should be good there. Richburg is coming back healthy with the whole line getting another year playing in the system together. These things coupled with a healthy Jimmy G playing throughout the year should show better results.

I understand that this is a results based league. We just haven't got the results we'd like from our offensive line yet. Reality is we had a ton of positions to fill from the beginning. Should we have gotten another guard or two? Probably. However, the team has not. To continue to harp on the line doesn't really help anything. Even the Homer's admit it's a weak link. What is the point of the constant beating of a dead horse? My point is to try and get people to see that Shanny and co didn't just ignore it for s**ts and giggles. They wanted to fill other important positions as well.

Like punter.
They also got rid of a great pass blocker.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Elite?
I am not sure he will hang on as a backup in the NFL. Fair point about CJ taking extra hits.

49ers should have drafted a qb on the first instead of ST.

Easy to say in hindsight. I'm sure you knew Mahomes and Watson were burgeoning studs.

I'd rather hav Jimmy all day over Watson though. He's lucky he hasn't been hurt worse so far in his career. It won't be a long one.

Majority of backups look like crap their first couple years. But that's what you expect from a qb at 104. He was always a project. Just like the majority of players are outside the top 75.

I knew the team needed a qb and I liked both of them. I also knew Thomas was a redundant, poor fit.
CJ has no place on this team.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

You're all over the place it's hard to understand where you're going with all this, that's all I'm saying...we're talking about jimmy, then the OL, then the WRs etc (and apparently it's all bad, atleast that's what it sounds like from you).

Jimmy G needs a solid OL, he doesn't need a OL that's gonna give him a 5 sec clean pocket...would be awesome, but like I said there's very few elite OL groups in the NFL.

The OL has been improved since kyle and Co. came here.....That's where this debated started

Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Elite?
I am not sure he will hang on as a backup in the NFL. Fair point about CJ taking extra hits.

49ers should have drafted a qb on the first instead of ST.

Easy to say in hindsight. I'm sure you knew Mahomes and Watson were burgeoning studs.

I'd rather hav Jimmy all day over Watson though. He's lucky he hasn't been hurt worse so far in his career. It won't be a long one.

Majority of backups look like crap their first couple years. But that's what you expect from a qb at 104. He was always a project. Just like the majority of players are outside the top 75.

I knew the team needed a qb and I liked both of them. I also knew Thomas was a redundant, poor fit.
CJ has no place on this team.

Guess it's a shame you weren't the GM

Thomas still has time to show his worth. If Kyle felt those QBs were not worth the investment that's his call and since he's the guy running the show especially on offense his opinion trumps all.

Mahomes is a stud but that offense is about as good a position for a guy like him as you can get. When you remember what Alex Smith looked like in that offense the year prior Mahomes numbers are still impressive but not that surprising.

What does his career look like if he comes here and is thrown into the fire with the "talent" we had in 2017? Similar question to the what if we took Aaron Rodgers at #1 over Alex Smith.

Odds are in both cases neither Rodgers or Mahomes are as good as they are with their respective teams on the 49ers.

I don't believe Kyle drafted CJ to be a starter. He was drafted to be developed but got rushed out there and clearly wasn't ready. The plan at the time was to go after Cousins. We can look back now and say it wasn't a smart plan but it was a lot riskier than using a top 2 pick on a QB from a spread offense and hoping he can pick up Kyle's complex scheme and play at a high level early on.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

this... unless some posters are purposely trying to be obtuse. i do not understand the issue.. this is the jimmy thread so pass protection discussion is very relevant. there is no doubt our team has become a good run blocking team and actually has been going back to 2011 when we were elite in that area.. in terms of pass protection , wool is right... we may have been at the bottom of the barrel when idiot jt was in charge and refused to admit it until game 12. going into the third year,... pass protection is well below average and when you have a zillion dollar guy you think will be the one to lead you back to being relevant and coming off a major knee,,,,,, well below average in pass protection is not good enough.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Per football outsiders SF was the 32nd ranked pass protecting offensive line in 2016 and 2015. They were also the 32nd ranked in run-blocking both yrs.

2018 they were the 10th ranked run-blocking OL and 22nd pass-blocking team.

SO no they were not better at PP or RB before lynch and Co. got here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Per football outsiders SF was the 32nd ranked pass protecting offensive line in 2016 AND 32nd ranked run-blocking OL.

2018 they were the 10th ranked run-blocking OL and 22nd pass-blocking team.

SO no they were not better at PP before lynch and Co. got here

I would love to see the math on that assessment.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

this... unless some posters are purposely trying to be obtuse. i do not understand the issue.. this is the jimmy thread so pass protection discussion is very relevant. there is no doubt our team has become a good run blocking team and actually has been going back to 2011 when we were elite in that area.. in terms of pass protection , wool is right... we may have been at the bottom of the barrel when idiot jt was in charge and refused to admit it until game 12. going into the third year,... pass protection is well below average and when you have a zillion dollar guy you think will be the one to lead you back to being relevant and coming off a major knee,,,,,, well below average in pass protection is not good enough.

Are you being obtuse overlooking people bringing up the fact that QB play makes a big impact on pass protection? The way WRs and TEs can separate also plays a factor.

Harder to block the longer you have to wait for guys to get open or if the QB doesn't get the ball out as quick or isn't as comfortable making his reads.

Hell look at the Rams. #6 ranked OL pass blocking all year. Patriots started mixing things up where Goff had to make his reads after McVay couldn't talk in his ear.

The results?

13 hurries, 8 hits, 4 sacks in 1 game. Do I need to give you the numbers that projects to over a 16 game season?

If Jimmy can get to a level of a Tom Brady of those top tier QBs in terms of his ability to see the field where he doesn't need Shanahan in his ear reading the D for him that goes a long way to helping the OL.

I don't think anyone here is thrilled with the state of the OL but you have to start somewhere.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Elite?
I am not sure he will hang on as a backup in the NFL. Fair point about CJ taking extra hits.

49ers should have drafted a qb on the first instead of ST.

Easy to say in hindsight. I'm sure you knew Mahomes and Watson were burgeoning studs.

I'd rather hav Jimmy all day over Watson though. He's lucky he hasn't been hurt worse so far in his career. It won't be a long one.

Majority of backups look like crap their first couple years. But that's what you expect from a qb at 104. He was always a project. Just like the majority of players are outside the top 75.

I knew the team needed a qb and I liked both of them. I also knew Thomas was a redundant, poor fit.
CJ has no place on this team.

Guess it's a shame you weren't the GM

Thomas still has time to show his worth. If Kyle felt those QBs were not worth the investment that's his call and since he's the guy running the show especially on offense his opinion trumps all.

Mahomes is a stud but that offense is about as good a position for a guy like him as you can get. When you remember what Alex Smith looked like in that offense the year prior Mahomes numbers are still impressive but not that surprising.

What does his career look like if he comes here and is thrown into the fire with the "talent" we had in 2017? Similar question to the what if we took Aaron Rodgers at #1 over Alex Smith.

Odds are in both cases neither Rodgers or Mahomes are as good as they are with their respective teams on the 49ers.

I don't believe Kyle drafted CJ to be a starter. He was drafted to be developed but got rushed out there and clearly wasn't ready. The plan at the time was to go after Cousins. We can look back now and say it wasn't a smart plan but it was a lot riskier than using a top 2 pick on a QB from a spread offense and hoping he can pick up Kyle's complex scheme and play at a high level early on.

Drafting Thomas was a terrible decision no matter how you slice it.

Cousins is so mediocre. He would have been a disaster.

Hoyer, CJ, Cousins...these guys do not inspire confidence in Kyle's eye for talent.

Mahomes would have been great here even if he had a less than all time historic great season like he had under Reid.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Per football outsiders SF was the 32nd ranked pass protecting offensive line in 2016 AND 32nd ranked run-blocking OL.

2018 they were the 10th ranked run-blocking OL and 22nd pass-blocking team.

SO no they were not better at PP before lynch and Co. got here

I would love to see the math on that assessment.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

You'll have to ask them for their formulas.

Originally posted by cciowa:

this... unless some posters are purposely trying to be obtuse. i do not understand the issue.. this is the jimmy thread so pass protection discussion is very relevant. there is no doubt our team has become a good run blocking team and actually has been going back to 2011 when we were elite in that area.. in terms of pass protection , wool is right... we may have been at the bottom of the barrel when idiot jt was in charge and refused to admit it until game 12. going into the third year,... pass protection is well below average and when you have a zillion dollar guy you think will be the one to lead you back to being relevant and coming off a major knee,,,,,, well below average in pass protection is not good enough.

This WHOLE discussion on OL started when he said the OL got worse once Lynch got here....which is simply not true.

Football outsiders had our OL ranked dead last in both RB and PP in 2015 & 2016. SF in 2018 was 10th in RB and 22nd in PP.

Every single damn Niner fan KNOWS they need to improve in PP, there's no debating that....there is context to it though. Like health and poor QB play that WILL help improve it. I'm pretty sure everyone also agrees you can always bring in more OL help.

Dats it.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Per football outsiders SF was the 32nd ranked pass protecting offensive line in 2016 AND 32nd ranked run-blocking OL.

2018 they were the 10th ranked run-blocking OL and 22nd pass-blocking team.

SO no they were not better at PP before lynch and Co. got here

I would love to see the math on that assessment.

Don't know what to tell ya, football outsiders is a very well respected analytical website when it comes to football stats.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Elite?
I am not sure he will hang on as a backup in the NFL. Fair point about CJ taking extra hits.

49ers should have drafted a qb on the first instead of ST.

Easy to say in hindsight. I'm sure you knew Mahomes and Watson were burgeoning studs.

I'd rather hav Jimmy all day over Watson though. He's lucky he hasn't been hurt worse so far in his career. It won't be a long one.

Majority of backups look like crap their first couple years. But that's what you expect from a qb at 104. He was always a project. Just like the majority of players are outside the top 75.

I knew the team needed a qb and I liked both of them. I also knew Thomas was a redundant, poor fit.
CJ has no place on this team.

Guess it's a shame you weren't the GM

Thomas still has time to show his worth. If Kyle felt those QBs were not worth the investment that's his call and since he's the guy running the show especially on offense his opinion trumps all.

Mahomes is a stud but that offense is about as good a position for a guy like him as you can get. When you remember what Alex Smith looked like in that offense the year prior Mahomes numbers are still impressive but not that surprising.

What does his career look like if he comes here and is thrown into the fire with the "talent" we had in 2017? Similar question to the what if we took Aaron Rodgers at #1 over Alex Smith.

Odds are in both cases neither Rodgers or Mahomes are as good as they are with their respective teams on the 49ers.

I don't believe Kyle drafted CJ to be a starter. He was drafted to be developed but got rushed out there and clearly wasn't ready. The plan at the time was to go after Cousins. We can look back now and say it wasn't a smart plan but it was a lot riskier than using a top 2 pick on a QB from a spread offense and hoping he can pick up Kyle's complex scheme and play at a high level early on.

Drafting Thomas was a terrible decision no matter how you slice it.

Cousins is so mediocre. He would have been a disaster.

Hoyer, CJ, Cousins...these guys do not inspire confidence in Kyle's eye for talent.

Mahomes would have been great here even if he had a less than all time historic great season like he had under Reid.

How about we see how he plays inside first? Drafting him and playing him out of position was not a very smart idea. You're trying to throw dirt on that pick so you can keep riding the he's an awful pick train.

He's entering his 3rd year. He still has a chance to revive his career.

Hoyer was a bridge gap. There was no talent evaluation going on. Hoyer was instantly signed by Belichick and the Pats for the same reason we signed him in the first place - veteran presence and knowledge of the offense.

CJ as mentioned was supposed to be a developmental pick. Rushing someone's development isn't ideal and can break some QBs.

You have no idea how Mahomes would've played here so let's not go there. It's all speculation without any proof one way or another.

Would Mahomes have been better than CJ? Of course but you'd have to draft Mahomes with #2 overall. Clearly our front office felt that was too big of a risk. You bomb on a franchise QB at #2 overall and your rebuild is short and sweet and some other HC is trying to cover up from it.

Originally posted by genus49:
Are you being obtuse overlooking people bringing up the fact that QB play makes a big impact on pass protection? The way WRs and TEs can separate also plays a factor.

Harder to block the longer you have to wait for guys to get open or if the QB doesn't get the ball out as quick or isn't as comfortable making his reads.

Hell look at the Rams. #6 ranked OL pass blocking all year. Patriots started mixing things up where Goff had to make his reads after McVay couldn't talk in his ear.

The results?

13 hurries, 8 hits, 4 sacks in 1 game. Do I need to give you the numbers that projects to over a 16 game season?

If Jimmy can get to a level of a Tom Brady of those top tier QBs in terms of his ability to see the field where he doesn't need Shanahan in his ear reading the D for him that goes a long way to helping the OL.

I don't think anyone here is thrilled with the state of the OL but you have to start somewhere.

to me, that is why kyle over hauled the wide outs and back up tight end thing because last year we had guys who were unable or unwilling to get separation.. i also note that jimmy got sacked.. i think about 13 times in three games so no offense to his quick release and nick is not as good as jimmy.... cj is not worth mentioning.... the o line in itself. by itself was not good in pass protection.WHATEVER the reason.,., some say injuries.. i say its because we had/have garbage guards. its the biggest question mark... also you are making a pretty big leap of faith to hope jimmy becomes tom brady but i appreciate the optimism