Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Because He's still on the squad, playing in the system for those 5 weeks in 17, then doing an entire offseason of preparation and playing 3 more weeks in 18. Then after the injury it's not like he's at home. He's still watching and learning. He's not a rookie by any stretch of the imagination and with 9 starts under his belt you can't pretend he's a 1st year starter too. It's a bs argument. Sh happens that's part of the game. But just because you play 4 games 1 year, then 6 the next, you don't get to say well golly geez He's still a 1st year starter until he hits 16 games. Let me compare this 28 year old to a 22 year old's numbers.

You have countless QBs who say nothing compares to game experience. Peyton Manning threw a ton of picks his rookie season and said that was huge for his career to understand what throws he can get away with in real games.

Watching and learning on your couch or sitting on the bench is great. Mental reps are better than nothing....but when the rush is coming at you and you know you're about to get laid out is a little different than processing on your couch.

That's the point people are making and why game experience is critical in the development of a QB. Nobody called him a rookie. Nobody said that his time behind Brady/Belichick wasn't beneficial.

Aaron Rodgers however got to sit back, work with McCarthy on reworking his mechanics and then got to come in playing in an offense he got to take mental reps in for 3 years, working in camp with the same guys who were out there during his first season starting.

Do you want to compare the receivers Aaron had to what Jimmy had with us? Or does that not work with your argument?

Like I said we saw Jimmy in Aaron's situation when he got to play with NE. I'd say he looked pretty darn good when called upon and ironically turnovers weren't an issue. Could it actually be that comfort level in an offense he was in for 3 offseasons and chemistry with the receivers he had in those practices carried over to the games?

Let's see how Jimmy does next year. He only had 1 offseason with the 49ers where he could actually concentrate on getting to be a better QB versus rehabbing.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by genus49:

If you want to compare first full seasons starting? Let's do it.

Rodgers
63.6% 4038 28 TD/13 INT 7.5 Y/A 93.8 QB Rating

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

I'm not knocking Jimmy and I like Jimmy, but you can't just make a 1-to-1 comparison between 2008 and 2019 because of evolutions in the passing game.

LEAGUE AVERAGE (16th best) STARTING QBS in 2008 and 2019:

COMP %:
2008: 61.3
2019: 64.3

TDs:
2008: 16
2019: 22

INTs:
2008: 11
2019: 9

YARDS:
2008: 3245
2019: 3603

QB Rating:
2008: 86.0
2019: 91.2

Throw in the ACL injury for Jimmy and it makes up for the changes to the offense

Originally posted by genus49:

You have countless QBs who say nothing compares to game experience. Peyton Manning threw a ton of picks his rookie season and said that was huge for his career to understand what throws he can get away with in real games.

Watching and learning on your couch or sitting on the bench is great. Mental reps are better than nothing....but when the rush is coming at you and you know you're about to get laid out is a little different than processing on your couch.

That's the point people are making and why game experience is critical in the development of a QB. Nobody called him a rookie. Nobody said that his time behind Brady/Belichick wasn't beneficial.

Aaron Rodgers however got to sit back, work with McCarthy on reworking his mechanics and then got to come in playing in an offense he got to take mental reps in for 3 years, working in camp with the same guys who were out there during his first season starting.

Do you want to compare the receivers Aaron had to what Jimmy had with us? Or does that not work with your argument?

Like I said we saw Jimmy in Aaron's situation when he got to play with NE. I'd say he looked pretty darn good when called upon and ironically turnovers weren't an issue. Could it actually be that comfort level in an offense he was in for 3 offseasons and chemistry with the receivers he had in those practices carried over to the games?

Let's see how Jimmy does next year. He only had 1 offseason with the 49ers where he could actually concentrate on getting to be a better QB versus rehabbing.

Jimmy has game experience and that's part of the point. He's started in 2016, started in 2017, started in 2018. The point I made is it's disengenius to pretend those games never happened because you want to compare him to guys who have NO experience playing. You're the one who is belittling game experience because a game only counts when you say it does. The reason I brought Rodgers up is like Jimmy at least he got to go in seasoned and prepared. But he had no playing experience and that's why year 2 of his would be a better comparison.

And as far as receivers go we have the top tight end in the game, traded for Sanders, and have a solid rookie in Deebo. I believe Rodgers had Driver and Jennings at that point. Kind of a wash.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by genus49:

If you want to compare first full seasons starting? Let's do it.

Rodgers
63.6% 4038 28 TD/13 INT 7.5 Y/A 93.8 QB Rating

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

I'm not knocking Jimmy and I like Jimmy, but you can't just make a 1-to-1 comparison between 2008 and 2019 because of evolutions in the passing game.

LEAGUE AVERAGE (16th best) STARTING QBS in 2008 and 2019:

COMP %:
2008: 61.3
2019: 64.3

TDs:
2008: 16
2019: 22

INTs:
2008: 11
2019: 9

YARDS:
2008: 3245
2019: 3603

QB Rating:
2008: 86.0
2019: 91.2

This. Its really dumb when people try to compare different eras, even in these last 10 years, the game has changed a lot.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
This. Its really dumb when people try to compare different eras, even in these last 10 years, the game has changed a lot.

This happens all the time on this forum and on national radio and TV programs. When it does , someone always brings up the fact that you can't compare different eras and everyone nods their head in agreement and then continue to make the comparison. It's like we all know it's a stupid comparison but we can't help doing it. We just live in an era of stats and we love to proclaim someone the best ever based on them. It's all subjective so it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

I'm not knocking Jimmy and I like Jimmy, but you can't just make a 1-to-1 comparison between 2008 and 2019 because of evolutions in the passing game.

LEAGUE AVERAGE (16th best) STARTING QBS in 2008 and 2019:

COMP %:
2008: 61.3
2019: 64.3

TDs:
2008: 16
2019: 22

INTs:
2008: 11
2019: 9

YARDS:
2008: 3245
2019: 3603

QB Rating:
2008: 86.0
2019: 91.2

Very good point. If you don't adjust for the era you may think Alex Smith is as good as Montana.

Rodgers was 4th in yards, 4th in td's, 6th in qb rating his true 1st year starting. Jimmy is in that range though to be fair. Outside of yards but that has more to do with our balance.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by genus49:
If you want to compare first full seasons starting? Let's do it.

Rodgers
63.6% 4038 28 TD/13 INT 7.5 Y/A 93.8 QB Rating

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

I'm not knocking Jimmy and I like Jimmy, but you can't just make a 1-to-1 comparison between 2008 and 2019 because of evolutions in the passing game.

LEAGUE AVERAGE (16th best) STARTING QBS in 2008 and 2019:

COMP %:
2008: 61.3
2019: 64.3

TDs:
2008: 16
2019: 22

INTs:
2008: 11
2019: 9

YARDS:
2008: 3245
2019: 3603

QB Rating:
2008: 86.0
2019: 91.2

This. Its really dumb when people try to compare different eras, even in these last 10 years, the game has changed a lot.

Give me a break...Rodgers was brought up as a comp to Jimmy in terms of their career path. Now we can't compare their numbers because of a huge difference of 10 years?

I understand what PJ was trying to show but the only reason to bring up the numbers was to cut down the narrative that Jimmy sucks in comparison.

When you're bringing up a first ballot HOFer and the numbers are that close even when you take into account the changes in the game it should be self explanatory that Jimmy still has time to improve and that he's far from someone who should be replaced.

This wasn't a 2019 vs 1979 comparison.

10 years things have changed but the bulk of the pro offense rules were already in place by 2008.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Jimmy has game experience and that's part of the point. He's started in 2016, started in 2017, started in 2018. The point I made is it's disengenius to pretend those games never happened because you want to compare him to guys who have NO experience playing. You're the one who is belittling game experience because a game only counts when you say it does. The reason I brought Rodgers up is like Jimmy at least he got to go in seasoned and prepared. But he had no playing experience and that's why year 2 of his would be a better comparison.

And as far as receivers go we have the top tight end in the game, traded for Sanders, and have a solid rookie in Deebo. I believe Rodgers had Driver and Jennings at that point. Kind of a wash.

What are you talking about? You're back to this whole arguing to argue thing again huh?

You brought up Rodgers trying to act like that's the person to compare Jimmy to because their situations are similar. They are not. My response included that if you want that fair comparison then it would've been if Jimmy played the whole season with the Pats. I included that extrapolating his 1.5 game start to 16 games would certainly be unfair but IF we did that the numbers would certainly be damn impressive.

Last I checked nobody here is trying to act like Jimmy is a rookie. But Oakland's thought process that just because he's older and has been in the league for a while means he's a finished product is equally idiotic.

You claim I'm comparing him to guys who have no experience playing...how? I stated he's got less starting experience than Mayfield or Allen, that's a FACT. I never brought up their numbers for comparison. Simply pointing out that Jimmy still has very little actual game experience starting.

And just because he started in multiple seasons doesn't somehow change the facts above. 2 starts, 5 starts, 3 starts and 16 starts still equal out to be...26 which is STILL less than Mayfield or Allen.

You mentioned Rodgers never hit the interception numbers he had his first season as a starter. Do you think maybe he learned something after actually starting all year?

There is a big gap between claiming Garoppolo has proven what he is because he's been in the league 6 seasons already and saying Jimmy is basically like a rookie.

You love to play devil's advocate but the comparison to Rodgers doesn't line up.

Originally posted by genus49:

What are you talking about? You're back to this whole arguing to argue thing again huh?

You brought up Rodgers trying to act like that's the person to compare Jimmy to because their situations are similar. They are not. My response included that if you want that fair comparison then it would've been if Jimmy played the whole season with the Pats. I included that extrapolating his 1.5 game start to 16 games would certainly be unfair but IF we did that the numbers would certainly be damn impressive.

Last I checked nobody here is trying to act like Jimmy is a rookie. But Oakland's thought process that just because he's older and has been in the league for a while means he's a finished product is equally idiotic.

You claim I'm comparing him to guys who have no experience playing...how? I stated he's got less starting experience than Mayfield or Allen, that's a FACT. I never brought up their numbers for comparison. Simply pointing out that Jimmy still has very little actual game experience starting.

And just because he started in multiple seasons doesn't somehow change the facts above. 2 starts, 5 starts, 3 starts and 16 starts still equal out to be...26 which is STILL less than Mayfield or Allen.

You mentioned Rodgers never hit the interception numbers he had his first season as a starter. Do you think maybe he learned something after actually starting all year?

There is a big gap between claiming Garoppolo has proven what he is because he's been in the league 6 seasons already and saying Jimmy is basically like a rookie.

You love to play devil's advocate but the comparison to Rodgers doesn't line up.

There's been post after post here mostly by you btw comparing Jimmy's numbers to Brady's, Big Ben's, Stafford's etc, etc 1st 2 years. Acting as if he's a rookie coming into the league like they were. From there Oakland said that was disengenius and I agreed saying the only person you come close to compare him to is Rodgers as both got years and years to prepare under a HoF. Him changing systems is nowhere near as big of a deal as you're making out to be. He's 28 years old being tutored by 2 of the brightest minds in the league his whole career. The man has only been blessed. He's been in Shanny's system for a year and a half beforehand already starting 7 games for him.

From what I've seen Oakland never said he was a finished product and clearly said he could still grow. Just to compare his stats to a 22 year old Peyton Manning is misleading as f. He's 28.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
There's been post after post here mostly by you btw comparing Jimmy's numbers to Brady's, Big Ben's, Stafford's etc, etc 1st 2 years. Acting as if he's a rookie coming into the league like they were. From there Oakland said that was disengenius and I agreed saying the only person you come close to compare him to is Rodgers as both got years and years to prepare under a HoF. Him changing systems is nowhere near as big of a deal as you're making out to be. He's 28 years old being tutored by 2 of the brightest minds in the league his whole career. The man has only been blessed. He's been in Shanny's system for a year and a half beforehand already starting 7 games for him.

From what I've seen Oakland never said he was a finished product and clearly said he could still grow. Just to compare his stats to a 22 year old Peyton Manning is misleading as f. He's 28.

You sure about that?

And changing to a totally different system, a system that's complex and one that takes two years to truly master all while dealing with inconsistencies at the WR position and you think it's not a big deal?

Sorry I call BS.

Sprinkle in the level of talent around each player and subtract the differences from 2008 to 2019 as far as running an offense is concerned to keep things honest and I'd say Jimmy stacks up pretty well to Rodgers...who in case people are forgetting is one of the best to ever play the game.

If Jimmy comes anywhere close to Aaron I'd say we're in great shape.

I think next year will be a make or break year for Jimmy. He turns 29 one week into next season. He'll have a full healthy off season to work with his receivers to improve his timing and tighten up his throws. Maybe we get a speed guy and he works on deep passing. In any case he has to show growth. He can't be the same guy or worse case, get injured again. We can't keep saying he doesn't have enough experience after 7 training camps and after next year, 2 full seasons as starter. He has to show that he can be a top 5 or at worst, top 8 QB. If he can't do that we seriously have to start looking at the future and find another QB. We can't wait forever for him to be the franchise.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I think next year will be a make or break year for Jimmy. He turns 29 one week into next season. He'll have a full healthy off season to work with his receivers to improve his timing and tighten up his throws. Maybe we get a speed guy and he works on deep passing. In any case he has to show growth. He can't be the same guy or worse case, get injured again. We can't keep saying he doesn't have enough experience after 7 training camps and after next year, 2 full seasons as starter. He has to show that he can be a top 5 or at worst, top 8 QB. If he can't do that we seriously have to start looking at the future and find another QB. We can't wait forever for him to be the franchise.

Top 5/8 in what category does the trick for you?

He was top 5 in

Completion %
TD
Y/A
4th quarter come backs
Game winning drives
3rd down conversion %

He was top 8 in QB Rating

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by genus49:
If you want to compare first full seasons starting? Let's do it.

Rodgers
63.6% 4038 28 TD/13 INT 7.5 Y/A 93.8 QB Rating

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

I'm not knocking Jimmy and I like Jimmy, but you can't just make a 1-to-1 comparison between 2008 and 2019 because of evolutions in the passing game.

LEAGUE AVERAGE (16th best) STARTING QBS in 2008 and 2019:

COMP %:
2008: 61.3
2019: 64.3

TDs:
2008: 16
2019: 22

INTs:
2008: 11
2019: 9

YARDS:
2008: 3245
2019: 3603

QB Rating:
2008: 86.0
2019: 91.2

This. Its really dumb when people try to compare different eras, even in these last 10 years, the game has changed a lot.

Saw this kind of stuff coming...which is why I've just been to myself...grappling with my depression over that missed Sanders throw for #6.

I was better able to deal with Kaep's loss because he played against a legitimate, sound defense with multiple HOF players was there to account for him play after play.

It's going to be one of the toughest offseasons ever... especially as it relates to Jimmy... because I'm back to saying the same thing after 8 games: He is who he is.

Hard to be mad at a guy for being an above average QB. But in games like the final one... it gets down to Mano y Mano with whomever is on the other side handling the ball.

We had the better team...sure. Didnt have the better QB. So what is the next step... aside from finding that guy as Jimmy's contract expires?

Ignore all of the silly,....useless stats that do not account for Jimmy not being able to effectively throw the ball away (1), avoid batted, telegraphed passes (2), nor avoid the rush(3) efficiently.

It's downright insane to be arguing back and forth with a guy on here that supposedly watches the same team you do and should've saw gaping holes in these 3 areas all season...and especially in the Superbowl.

Why even bother when he's going to reply back with a bunch of yards completion percentages from midseason? You simply arent going to get on the same page with him and discuss what's pertinent.

That is...that he either somehow, someway improves in at least 2 of the 3 areas above... or we have to come to grips with the fact that maybe he's just not "the guy."

Let's see what we can sniff out at the Scouting Combine.

my reg season prediction for jimmy jesus in 2020:

71% completion rate
4,500+ passing yds
34 td
8 int

hey yo say wut??

Originally posted by genus49:
Top 5/8 in what category does the trick for you?

He was top 5 in

Completion %
TD
Y/A
4th quarter come backs
Game winning drives
3rd down conversion %

He was top 8 in QB Rating

Again with the stats. Easy to have completion % when your average throw is among the shortest in the league. I don't care about stats. You can read them and use them any way you want. I'm talking about being considered a top 5 QB or top 8 QB by scouts, GM's and people around the league. It's clear that he isn't at this point since most view him as an unfinished product. No team prepares for him when they face the Niners. They prepare for our offense and the running game. Look at how KC stacked the front to force him to pass. When teams start to fear him the way they do Rogers, Brees, Wilson and Mahomes among others, that's when he will be considered a top QB. We all know where he needs to improve. It's time for him to fix the weak areas and become a dominating QB. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing if he shows better timing with receivers and cuts down on the INT's, Kyle will have more faith in him and pass more.