Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 49erminion:
my reg season prediction for jimmy jesus in 2020:

71% completion rate
4,500+ passing yds
34 td
8 int

hey yo say wut??

Those would be nice numbers. Now it's up to him to actually do it.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:
Top 5/8 in what category does the trick for you?

He was top 5 in

Completion %
TD
Y/A
4th quarter come backs
Game winning drives
3rd down conversion %

He was top 8 in QB Rating

Again with the stats. Easy to have completion % when your average throw is among the shortest in the league. I don't care about stats. You can read them and use them any way you want. I'm talking about being considered a top 5 QB or top 8 QB by scouts, GM's and people around the league. It's clear that he isn't at this point since most view him as an unfinished product. No team prepares for him when they face the Niners. They prepare for our offense and the running game. Look at how KC stacked the front to force him to pass. When teams start to fear him the way they do Rogers, Brees, Wilson and Mahomes among others, that's when he will be considered a top QB. We all know where he needs to improve. It's time for him to fix the weak areas and become a dominating QB. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing if he shows better timing with receivers and cuts down on the INT's, Kyle will have more faith in him and pass more.

Sigh...

Literally first question to you was asking you what you're looking for.

You mentioned he needs to be a top 5, top 8 at WORST QB next year. So if you're not looking at stats what constitutes top 5/8 to you?

Waiting for a QB to be like some of the best ever as a young starter is what does it for you?

Teams who are able to run the ball successfully should do that because it makes everything else so much easier. Keeps games shorter, lets the defense rest and doesn't get the QB beat up. It would be stupid to throw the ball when the running game is working to a point where other teams can't stop it.

Originally posted by 49erminion:

my reg season prediction for jimmy jesus in 2020:

71% completion rate
4,500+ passing yds
34 td
8 int

hey yo say wut??

Please rewatch the last several drives for both teams in the Superbowl.

Then come back and convince me on why I should care one bit about regular season stats for a QB... given our current roster??

If I were a Dolphins or a Bengals fan... maybe I'd be all in on this "numbers" stuff....but context is everything.

genus I understand what you are trying to do by listing Jimmy being in the top __ in a lot of stats. But there is no one in the world that would call Jimmy a top 5 QB right now, and that is CatchMaster's point. There are very few that would put him in the top 8 category either.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
genus I understand what you are trying to do by listing Jimmy being in the top __ in a lot of stats. But there is no one in the world that would call Jimmy a top 5 QB right now, and that is CatchMaster's point. There are very few that would put him in the top 8 category either.

And I'm fine with that. I just wanted him to spell out what he's looking for.

When someone comes in and makes essentially an ultimatum that Player X has to be top 8 at worst to stay on the team...well yeah I expect something concrete behind such a strong statement.

What makes a player top 8 to one person may not be the same thing for another person so I'd like to hear him say what it means to him.

Don't have a lot of respect for someone who basically punts it to the media for rankings.

Originally posted by genus49:
Sigh...

Literally first question to you was asking you what you're looking for.

You mentioned he needs to be a top 5, top 8 at WORST QB next year. So if you're not looking at stats what constitutes top 5/8 to you?

Waiting for a QB to be like some of the best ever as a young starter is what does it for you?

Teams who are able to run the ball successfully should do that because it makes everything else so much easier. Keeps games shorter, lets the defense rest and doesn't get the QB beat up. It would be stupid to throw the ball when the running game is working to a point where other teams can't stop it.

When we talk about rating players it is really more about league consensus. How is he viewed not what was his pass completion percentage. Using stats becomes a problem since not every team runs the same offense. Some use short passes like we do. Some go bombs away all the time. Some have better receivers or better coaches. Maybe they have a better or worse O line. If every team was equal in talent at every position then the stats would mean more.

When he's considered to be a top 5 by consensus then he will be a top 5. When a few Niner fans think he is, that doesn't mean anything. Right now, Bosa is considered the best player on the team. Even Kittle is more highly respected around the league. When you're considered to be a top QB around the league, you should be considered the best player on your team. All the guys I mentioned above are the stars on their team and there isn't any question about it. He needs to get to the point where teams worry about him. Make them game plan to stop him. I want their fans to do what we do every week when we face one of the top guys and wonder how are we going to stop him. Not there yet.

I remember how people complained about Jimmy not getting any respect and all the hype about Mahomes. People in the press can read stats too but they also know that stats don't always tell the whole story. For example, look at INTs. You would have to go back and look at every INT in the league and determine if it was a poorly thrown pass, a tipped ball at the line or a deflection off a receiver. Then you would need to look at whether there was a guy in the QBs face or did he have a clear field. Same with TDs. Was it a 50 yard toss downfield or a swing pass that the receiver turned into a 25 yard TD. Stats matter but they also don't tell the whole story and can often be deceiving. So now that the SB is over and Mahomes gets the MVP we can point to the stats and say 'Jimmy was better here or better there'. Next year, who are teams going to worry about more, the guy that had the better stats or the guy that scares you with his ability to make plays in crunch time.

So have largely been staying away as the loss is still a bit too close....but I'm so done hearing about how bad Jimmy is.

YES, the baseline is different from several year ago...but there needs to be some historical perspective and not just from Aaron Rodgers. One of the biggest issues I read about Jimmy play is the INTs.

Check out these numbers....these are INTs thrown by season by a future HOF QB.

16,15, 7,15, 11, 18, 17, 11, 22, 14, 19, 12, 17, 11, 15, 8, 5, 4.

That's freakin' Drew Brees. His CAREER QB rating is 98.4. Tom Bradys is 97.0. Aaron Rodgers is 102.4. Wilsons is 101.2. Jimmys is 100.

I say none of this to suggest that Jimmy Garoppolo will become any one of those guys. I say it to make the point that he had a damn good first year as a starter. Yes, It is fair to say the passing era has changed during those guys tenure as QBs. Its also fair to say that those guys have become pretty good at playing QB as a result of playing so long. Yes, I get that being a rookie first year starter is different than being a 5th year guy starting his first year, but it ain't like being in his fifth season as a starter either.

The problem is that if you can't use those guys historical numbers, you really aren't left with something you can reliably use as a sample. Mahomes? He is NOT the new norm. If that's the measuring stick than NOBODY would measure up. Watson? Career QB rating of 101. Threw 8 INTs in 7 games last year.

So if our only comparisons on the games best are discarded because they've been playing so long, there is one guy who is breaking the charts, and the rest of the young QBs have similar statistics...what the hell are we left with for comparison?

How about this one....

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

Matt Ryan 2015
66.3% 4,591 21 TD/16 INT 89 QB Rating

That was Matt Ryans first year in Shanahans system and his EIGHTH in the NFL. In 2016 he was the league MVP with a 117.1 QB rating.

To be clear, I'm not trying to make the case that he's a superstar. I'm simply saying the talking heads on TV have already written his obituary. Its ludicrous.

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. Colin Kaepernick AND Garoppolo have the same number of NFCCG Wins as those two guys COLLECTIVELY.

The Chargers freakin' gave up on Brees and drafted Phillip Rivers. Brees was a FREE AGENT after his 5th year.

I guess the long and the short of it is Jimmy has ALOT of career left to write and anyone right now saying that they know for certain what he is or will be is full of it. All we know is that he had a good first full year as a starter. Perhaps not a great one, but a very good one.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49erminion:

my reg season prediction for jimmy jesus in 2020:

71% completion rate
4,500+ passing yds
34 td
8 int

hey yo say wut??

Please rewatch the last several drives for both teams in the Superbowl.

Then come back and convince me on why I should care one bit about regular season stats for a QB... given our current roster??

If I were a Dolphins or a Bengals fan... maybe I'd be all in on this "numbers" stuff....but context is everything.

oh i wasnt going down that path. sorry to tickle your pickle. but an improvement from the previous season portends a better result in the playoffs i would have to say

Originally posted by Marvin49:

So have largely been staying away as the loss is still a bit too close....but I'm so done hearing about how bad Jimmy is.

YES, the baseline is different from several year ago...but there needs to be some historical perspective and not just from Aaron Rodgers. One of the biggest issues I read about Jimmy play is the INTs.

Check out these numbers....these are INTs thrown by season by a future HOF QB.

16,15, 7,15, 11, 18, 17, 11, 22, 14, 19, 12, 17, 11, 15, 8, 5, 4.

That's freakin' Drew Brees. His CAREER QB rating is 98.4. Tom Bradys is 97.0. Aaron Rodgers is 102.4. Wilsons is 101.2. Jimmys is 100.

I say none of this to suggest that Jimmy Garoppolo will become any one of those guys. I say it to make the point that he had a damn good first year as a starter. Yes, It is fair to say the passing era has changed during those guys tenure as QBs. Its also fair to say that those guys have become pretty good at playing QB as a result of playing so long. Yes, I get that being a rookie first year starter is different than being a 5th year guy starting his first year, but it ain't like being in his fifth season as a starter either.

The problem is that if you can't use those guys historical numbers, you really aren't left with something you can reliably use as a sample. Mahomes? He is NOT the new norm. If that's the measuring stick than NOBODY would measure up. Watson? Career QB rating of 101. Threw 8 INTs in 7 games last year.

So if our only comparisons on the games best are discarded because they've been playing so long, there is one guy who is breaking the charts, and the rest of the young QBs have similar statistics...what the hell are we left with for comparison?

How about this one....

Garoppolo
69.1% 3978 27 TD/13 INT 8.3 Y/A 102 QB Rating

Matt Ryan 2015
66.3% 4,591 21 TD/16 INT 89 QB Rating

That was Matt Ryans first year in Shanahans system and his EIGHTH in the NFL. In 2016 he was the league MVP with a 117.1 QB rating.

To be clear, I'm not trying to make the case that he's a superstar. I'm simply saying the talking heads on TV have already written his obituary. Its ludicrous.

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. Colin Kaepernick AND Garoppolo have the same number of NFCCG Wins as those two guys COLLECTIVELY.

The Chargers freakin' gave up on Brees and drafted Phillip Rivers. Brees was a FREE AGENT after his 5th year.

I guess the long and the short of it is Jimmy has ALOT of career left to write and anyone right now saying that they know for certain what he is or will be is full of it. All we know is that he had a good first full year as a starter. Perhaps not a great one, but a very good one.

Great post and thanks, Marv. We miss your perspective and have way too many guys posting who feel Jimmy is a flop because he had a bad last 7 minutes in the SB, right after he got his bell rung in a very obvious helmet to helmet while his head was on the ground. Also he was still looking woozy in post game interview where he was decidedly acting and answering abnormally . Some don't believe that, but that is what i saw. Until that moment he had played excellently. Then the last 7 mins and some halfway fans throw in the towel, completely forgetting our 20 yrs lost in the desert, just trying to get a half way decent Qb. We get one and then he is ridiculed by the "faithless" for his last 7 mins of play in the SB where you can believe it or not, but he got his bell rung.

The guy is a superstud and the way this team has been built up with incredible depth, we are going to make a run again. And the same guys are still going to be continuing their complaining. We got our FR QB and are NOT looking for another. The faithless who are calling for this are just that...Faith LESS.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Great post and thanks, Marv. We miss your perspective and have way too many guys posting who feel Jimmy is a flop because he had a bad last 7 minutes in the SB, right after he got his bell rung in a very obvious helmet to helmet while his head was on the ground. Also he was still looking woozy in post game interview where he was decidedly acting and answering abnormally . Some don't believe that, but that is what i saw. Until that moment he had played excellently. Then the last 7 mins and some halfway fans throw in the towel, completely forgetting our 20 yrs lost in the desert, just trying to get a half way decent Qb. We get one and then he is ridiculed by the "faithless" for his last 7 mins of play in the SB where you can believe it or not, but he got his bell rung.

The guy is a superstud and the way this team has been built up with incredible depth, we are going to make a run again. And the same guys are still going to be continuing their complaining. We got our FR QB and are NOT looking for another. The faithless who are calling for this are just that...Faith LESS.

So lets just assume for a moment that they are right and his bell wasn't wrung (and honestly I haven't had the strength to re-watch this one yet which is a big reason why I haven't posted).

Lets just say he SUCKED in the last 7 minutes. So the F what?

Joe Montana threw what should have been a game losing INT in SB XXXIII, but the DB dropped it. Russell Wilson DID throw a game losing INT. So did Peyton Manning...and he lost 2 SBs. Look at John Elways SB performances. Brady lost 3 of them. He would have lost a 4th if not for that Wilson INT. So the F what? Its ONE game. Not even that. Its a small portion of one game in his first full year. Hell, if he hits Sanders...or the pass to Kittle isn't deflected, HE might be the game MVP. What is said then about Mahomes Performance? He threw 2 INTs in the game. Jimmys 2nd INT was when the game was all but over and he was clearly pressing to make something...anything...happen.

Ya know, sometimes, you just lose the damn game. Sometimes there is no "fault". Sometimes the other team makes the play (like say 3rd and 15 or deflecting a pass to a wide open Kittle).

Sometimes, you just lose.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
We should make a run at Tom Brady for next season and trade jimmy back to the Patriots.

Trolling?

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
We should make a run at Tom Brady for next season and trade jimmy back to the Patriots.

Trolling?

I think he's serious - I know I wouldn't mind it.

I literally just copy and pasted what sus wrote lmao

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Goatie:
Oh come on get serious. We are not all fools. The guy has started only 26 games yet got this team to the Super Bowl. You will have no one believe anything you post if you keep misrepresenting reality.

I just feel the 26 game argument is disingenuous. He was taking snaps behind Tom Brady and learning from Bill Billacheat/McDaniels for 4 years. Yes, playing in live games help, but you guys act like he's some noob off the street learning to read NFL defenses for the first time.

Even with 26 starts he still turns the ball over with regularity and that's without being asked to do much. It's not a scheme issue, he just flat out makes bad decisions ( like not fully throwing the ball out of bounds in the SB, which cost us an int).

Do I think he'll get better if he's allowed to stay in Kyles system a couple more years, sure. But, what qb wouldn't, particularly in the hands of an offense guru that makes it easy for him.

I think there is a good number of QBs out there that could do what he's doing out with far less turnovers.

Like I said, he gets all the benefit of the doubt. You'll never here "the NFL has figured him out..burp..derp."

1. Disingenuous - What? 26 games is a fact. Your contention that he spent 4 years behind Brady and Bill etc doesn't cut it. He has never played a full season in the NFL with all the ups and downs that it entails. There is nothing like game it experience. Training goes nowhere near it.

2. You change the subject and claim Jimmy had too many turn overs. He had two intercepts in the SB, so did Mahomes. He had 13 intercepts all season long. Montana and Young and Brady have all had that in some of their seasons as well. So what? Sure there were some turnovers from fumbles after he got pummelled when the O Line let him down. That happens. It is hard to keep a good grip on the ball when you are looking for an open receiver and someone comes at you from a direction you cant see. I am sure he will get better with his blind spots another so what.

3. Disingenuous No 2 - You continually make negative posts about Jimmy and nitpick every little thing he does. It is not a new thing on your part you have been doing it all season. We get it you don't like Jimmy and wish we had Mr Perfect. We don't. No team does. But you don't sound reasonable in the context of your posts this year. You sound overly negative and when I see what you post most I write off as disingenuous.

Maybe you should consider another team because Jimmy isn't going anywhere soon. His team mates support him but more importantly Shanahan and Lynch support him. Have you been watching Jonnydel's breakdowns and thl408 analysis? Doesn't sound like it. If you had you wouldn't be saying the things you do as Jonny and thl408 tell it how it is in relation to JG's worth to this team and why he is worth it.

Means nothing to you that last year we were 4-12 and this year we are 13-3. The most significant thing in that turn around is Jimmy G. You cant argue with that buddy.

great post. nailed every counter point. bolded the entire thing. so well said.

Originally posted by RockNRollStar:
Is this what happens during the off-season? Spend weeks and months regurgitating the same arguments?

Originally posted by TexasGuero49:
We should make a run at Tom Brady for next season and trade jimmy back to the Patriots

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Great post and thanks, Marv. We miss your perspective and have way too many guys posting who feel Jimmy is a flop because he had a bad last 7 minutes in the SB, right after he got his bell rung in a very obvious helmet to helmet while his head was on the ground. Also he was still looking woozy in post game interview where he was decidedly acting and answering abnormally . Some don't believe that, but that is what i saw. Until that moment he had played excellently. Then the last 7 mins and some halfway fans throw in the towel, completely forgetting our 20 yrs lost in the desert, just trying to get a half way decent Qb. We get one and then he is ridiculed by the "faithless" for his last 7 mins of play in the SB where you can believe it or not, but he got his bell rung.

The guy is a superstud and the way this team has been built up with incredible depth, we are going to make a run again. And the same guys are still going to be continuing their complaining. We got our FR QB and are NOT looking for another. The faithless who are calling for this are just that...Faith LESS.

So lets just assume for a moment that they are right and his bell wasn't wrung (and honestly I haven't had the strength to re-watch this one yet which is a big reason why I haven't posted).

Lets just say he SUCKED in the last 7 minutes. So the F what?

Joe Montana threw what should have been a game losing INT in SB XXXIII, but the DB dropped it. Russell Wilson DID throw a game losing INT. So did Peyton Manning...and he lost 2 SBs. Look at John Elways SB performances. Brady lost 3 of them. He would have lost a 4th if not for that Wilson INT. So the F what? Its ONE game. Not even that. Its a small portion of one game in his first full year. Hell, if he hits Sanders...or the pass to Kittle isn't deflected, HE might be the game MVP. What is said then about Mahomes Performance? He threw 2 INTs in the game. Jimmys 2nd INT was when the game was all but over and he was clearly pressing to make something...anything...happen.

Ya know, sometimes, you just lose the damn game. Sometimes there is no "fault". Sometimes the other team makes the play (like say 3rd and 15 or deflecting a pass to a wide open Kittle).

Sometimes, you just lose.

love having logic and reason back