Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Both teams looked absolutely nervous that SB.


Merhomes was meh for 3 3/4 quarters.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Both teams looked absolutely nervous that SB.

Merhomes was meh for 3 3/4 quarters.

Mehomes

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Sure. What else is there to do.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Both teams looked absolutely nervous that SB.

Merhomes was meh for 3 3/4 quarters.

even if merhomes

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
even if merhomes

Como esta mi merhomes?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:
Sigh...

Literally first question to you was asking you what you're looking for.

You mentioned he needs to be a top 5, top 8 at WORST QB next year. So if you're not looking at stats what constitutes top 5/8 to you?

Waiting for a QB to be like some of the best ever as a young starter is what does it for you?

Teams who are able to run the ball successfully should do that because it makes everything else so much easier. Keeps games shorter, lets the defense rest and doesn't get the QB beat up. It would be stupid to throw the ball when the running game is working to a point where other teams can't stop it.

When we talk about rating players it is really more about league consensus. How is he viewed not what was his pass completion percentage. Using stats becomes a problem since not every team runs the same offense. Some use short passes like we do. Some go bombs away all the time. Some have better receivers or better coaches. Maybe they have a better or worse O line. If every team was equal in talent at every position then the stats would mean more.

When he's considered to be a top 5 by consensus then he will be a top 5. When a few Niner fans think he is, that doesn't mean anything. Right now, Bosa is considered the best player on the team. Even Kittle is more highly respected around the league. When you're considered to be a top QB around the league, you should be considered the best player on your team. All the guys I mentioned above are the stars on their team and there isn't any question about it. He needs to get to the point where teams worry about him. Make them game plan to stop him. I want their fans to do what we do every week when we face one of the top guys and wonder how are we going to stop him. Not there yet.

I remember how people complained about Jimmy not getting any respect and all the hype about Mahomes. People in the press can read stats too but they also know that stats don't always tell the whole story. For example, look at INTs. You would have to go back and look at every INT in the league and determine if it was a poorly thrown pass, a tipped ball at the line or a deflection off a receiver. Then you would need to look at whether there was a guy in the QBs face or did he have a clear field. Same with TDs. Was it a 50 yard toss downfield or a swing pass that the receiver turned into a 25 yard TD. Stats matter but they also don't tell the whole story and can often be deceiving. So now that the SB is over and Mahomes gets the MVP we can point to the stats and say 'Jimmy was better here or better there'. Next year, who are teams going to worry about more, the guy that had the better stats or the guy that scares you with his ability to make plays in crunch time.

That's fair but at the same time if your analysis is based on the media/sport respect and you make a strong statement like "He better be top 5, top 8 at worst next season" and basically make it seem like if he's not then we need to get rid of him then you're getting into very odd territory.

I'm not sure I would ever put Cam Newton or Matt Ryan as a top 8 QB. And yet they both have MVP seasons under their belt and a SB appearance in their best season.

By your definition those guys were top 8(maybe?) that season but where are they now?

Was Russell Wilson a top 5/8 guy early in this Seahawks career? I remember not many people had Tom Brady as a top QB and called him a game manager until 2007 when he exploded with a loaded roster.

So numbers/stats do play a number in how people rate QBs at least for that season.

Right now there are a lot of quality QBs and with everything that's happened with Jimmy's career so far it will be VERY tough for him to crack the top 5 or even top 8 category next year based on the media.

Mahomes
Wilson
Brees
Lamar
Rodgers

Those guys will likely make up most people's top 5 based on either their track record(Brees/Rodgers/Wilson) or recent play/potential(Mahomes/Lamar/Wilson)

So then you're looking at 3 guys to crack the top 8.

Brady
Wentz
Prescott
Ryan
Watson

Probably all who will be in the running based on their track record/potential and teams around them.

Can Jimmy crack that lineup? I certainly think so. Will he get a chance to do so is the question.

If our running game is still going strong next year and we're 29th or somewhere in the ballpark in passing attempts then it simply limits the hype the QB can get unless he's pulling a Lamar Jackson or Russell Wilson.

Now Wilson had his breakout year in 2015 but I feel like people didn't really put him in the elite category until 2017 or so. Brady was winning SBs early in his career but until 2007 there was a lot of discussion about where he was rated.

Basically in order to crack that top 5/8 you demand from him it's a matter of who else is in the mix and the opportunities the QB has. When a team runs a lot those opportunities simply aren't as prevalent. And honestly I hope those opportunities are not there because it means our D is playing great and our running game is clicking.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by TexasGuero49:
We should make a run at Tom Brady for next season and trade jimmy back to the Patriots

Who is Susweel/Spartacus

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. .

Good to see you back Marvin

Like you, i haven't been able to stomach rewatching the game either, lol.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I don't really think anyone is writing Jimmy off, but the main problem is this.....

The guys listed above are all Superbowl champs and all won on their first try (I think). Wilson's INT was more about a great defensive play and a terrible play call, but to be clear that loss would have been WAY worse to stomach, compared to the way we lost.

Also, if you give every one of these listed QBs 3 drives (one on a short field) against the 31st ranked defense with a lead, they are all three going to give you points and we know this because all 3 did it to us this year.

Like it's been mentioned before in this thread, its not that Jimmy needed lead the team to some miraculous comeback, all he needed to do was score one TD with 3 opportunities.

Nonetheless, the debate really is a waste of time because it's all history now, all we can all do is just pray that he comes back and proves to be good enough to be in company with this group of QBs when it comes to Superbowl wins.

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. .

Good to see you back Marvin

Like you, i haven't been able to stomach rewatching the game either, lol.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I don't really think anyone is writing Jimmy off, but the main problem is this.....

The guys listed above are all Superbowl champs and all won on their first try (I think). Wilson's INT was more about a great defensive play and a terrible play call, but to be clear that loss would have been WAY worse to stomach, compared to the way we lost.

Also, if you give every one of these listed QBs 3 drives (one on a short field) against the 31st ranked defense with a lead, they are all three going to give you points and we know this because all 3 did it to us this year.

Like it's been mentioned before in this thread, its not that Jimmy needed lead the team to some miraculous comeback, all he needed to do was score one TD with 3 opportunities.

Nonetheless, the debate really is a waste of time because it's all history now, all we can all do is just pray that he comes back and proves to be good enough to be in company with these group of QBs when it comes to Superbowl wins.

I think you should go and rewatch the Super Bowl. Particularly the last 10 minutes. What is on tape is different to what you post particularly the bits where you run Jimmy down. What you say happened and what happened are two different things.

Originally posted by genus49:

I'm not sure I would ever put Cam Newton or Matt Ryan as a top 8 QB. And yet they both have MVP seasons under their belt and a SB appearance in their best season.

By your definition those guys were top 8(maybe?) that season but where are they now?

Huh?? Failing to see why it matters that they have fallen off since then...unless this is a HOF-worthiness discussion and I missed it?

When they were MVPs...they were easily top 3. Now that they are not playing at that level...they are not top 3 or 5 or whatever.

There is absolutely no thesis statement to such blind rambling though,...because I cant quite see how someone even possibly improves how they see Jimmy G from it.

The main discussion here has been the here-and-now.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. .

Good to see you back Marvin

Like you, i haven't been able to stomach rewatching the game either, lol.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I don't really think anyone is writing Jimmy off, but the main problem is this.....

The guys listed above are all Superbowl champs and all won on their first try (I think). Wilson's INT was more about a great defensive play and a terrible play call, but to be clear that loss would have been WAY worse to stomach, compared to the way we lost.

Also, if you give every one of these listed QBs 3 drives (one on a short field) against the 31st ranked defense with a lead, they are all three going to give you points and we know this because all 3 did it to us this year.

Like it's been mentioned before in this thread, its not that Jimmy needed lead the team to some miraculous comeback, all he needed to do was score one TD with 3 opportunities.

Nonetheless, the debate really is a waste of time because it's all history now, all we can all do is just pray that he comes back and proves to be good enough to be in company with these group of QBs when it comes to Superbowl wins.

I think you should go and rewatch the Super Bowl. Particularly the last 10 minutes. What is on tape is different to what you post particularly the bits where you run Jimmy down. What you say happened and what happened are two different things.

Did he score on his last three drives?

Ok, I'll rewatch it if you're telling me I missed the score he made to get the TD we needed to get #6.

Actually, that's a lie, no I won't because the only thing I could bear to watch would be from the second half kickoff to the 7min mark

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. .

Good to see you back Marvin

Like you, i haven't been able to stomach rewatching the game either, lol.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I don't really think anyone is writing Jimmy off, but the main problem is this.....

The guys listed above are all Superbowl champs and all won on their first try (I think). Wilson's INT was more about a great defensive play and a terrible play call, but to be clear that loss would have been WAY worse to stomach, compared to the way we lost.

Also, if you give every one of these listed QBs 3 drives (one on a short field) against the 31st ranked defense with a lead, they are all three going to give you points and we know this because all 3 did it to us this year.

Like it's been mentioned before in this thread, its not that Jimmy needed lead the team to some miraculous comeback, all he needed to do was score one TD with 3 opportunities.

Nonetheless, the debate really is a waste of time because it's all history now, all we can all do is just pray that he comes back and proves to be good enough to be in company with these group of QBs when it comes to Superbowl wins.

I think you should go and rewatch the Super Bowl. Particularly the last 10 minutes. What is on tape is different to what you post particularly the bits where you run Jimmy down. What you say happened and what happened are two different things.

Did he score on his last three drives?

Ok, I'll rewatch it if you're telling me I missed the score he made to get the TD we needed to get #6.

Actually, that's a lie, no I won't because the only thing I could bear to watch would be from the second half kickoff to the 7min mark

Ok bury your head in the sand.

Originally posted by genus49:
That's fair but at the same time if your analysis is based on the media/sport respect and you make a strong statement like "He better be top 5, top 8 at worst next season" and basically make it seem like if he's not then we need to get rid of him then you're getting into very odd territory.

I'm not sure I would ever put Cam Newton or Matt Ryan as a top 8 QB. And yet they both have MVP seasons under their belt and a SB appearance in their best season.

By your definition those guys were top 8(maybe?) that season but where are they now?

Was Russell Wilson a top 5/8 guy early in this Seahawks career? I remember not many people had Tom Brady as a top QB and called him a game manager until 2007 when he exploded with a loaded roster.

So numbers/stats do play a number in how people rate QBs at least for that season.

Right now there are a lot of quality QBs and with everything that's happened with Jimmy's career so far it will be VERY tough for him to crack the top 5 or even top 8 category next year based on the media.

Mahomes
Wilson
Brees
Lamar
Rodgers

Those guys will likely make up most people's top 5 based on either their track record(Brees/Rodgers/Wilson) or recent play/potential(Mahomes/Lamar/Wilson)

So then you're looking at 3 guys to crack the top 8.

Brady
Wentz
Prescott
Ryan
Watson

Probably all who will be in the running based on their track record/potential and teams around them.

Can Jimmy crack that lineup? I certainly think so. Will he get a chance to do so is the question.

If our running game is still going strong next year and we're 29th or somewhere in the ballpark in passing attempts then it simply limits the hype the QB can get unless he's pulling a Lamar Jackson or Russell Wilson.

Now Wilson had his breakout year in 2015 but I feel like people didn't really put him in the elite category until 2017 or so. Brady was winning SBs early in his career but until 2007 there was a lot of discussion about where he was rated.

Basically in order to crack that top 5/8 you demand from him it's a matter of who else is in the mix and the opportunities the QB has. When a team runs a lot those opportunities simply aren't as prevalent. And honestly I hope those opportunities are not there because it means our D is playing great and our running game is clicking.

I agree with your list. That's probably how most around the country view it. Brady is about ready to drop out of that because of his age. I might throw Stafford in there but he's getting up there too. When I listen to the talk shows (I have them on nearly all day since I'm retired) Jimmy is usually viewed as at the bottom of the top 10 or just outside the top 10. His biggest problems in moving up will be:
1. He doesn't run well and he doesn't have the elite arm. Unfortunately those are 2 things that really grab the attention in todays game.
2. Kyle. Until Kyle feels confident enough in Jimmy's ability to take over a game on a regular basis, they will always be more of a running team. They may be that way no matter what. Jimmy may always be asked to do the minimum and may never get the big time recognition. I'm not saying this is right but it's the way QBs are viewed now. We live in a world of flash and he isn't flashy.

It's okay that we run alot more...if we do. The problem is needing a QB that can get you out of jams should things be accounted for and theyre rushing the passer.

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Some will say to this "screw the numbers, he didn't deliver when it matters!". In his first season as a starter. Coming off an ACL. Lets even grant that premise. Russell Wilson threw a game losing INT in the SB from the 5 yard line. Aaron Rodgers is 10-8 in the playoffs and 1-4 in the NFCCG. The Niners have been kicking his a$$ in the playoffs for years. Drew Brees is 8-8 in the playoffs. .

Good to see you back Marvin

Like you, i haven't been able to stomach rewatching the game either, lol.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I don't really think anyone is writing Jimmy off, but the main problem is this.....

The guys listed above are all Superbowl champs and all won on their first try (I think). Wilson's INT was more about a great defensive play and a terrible play call, but to be clear that loss would have been WAY worse to stomach, compared to the way we lost.

Also, if you give every one of these listed QBs 3 drives (one on a short field) against the 31st ranked defense with a lead, they are all three going to give you points and we know this because all 3 did it to us this year.

Like it's been mentioned before in this thread, its not that Jimmy needed lead the team to some miraculous comeback, all he needed to do was score one TD with 3 opportunities.

Nonetheless, the debate really is a waste of time because it's all history now, all we can all do is just pray that he comes back and proves to be good enough to be in company with this group of QBs when it comes to Superbowl wins.

Manning didn't get it in his first try (edit: yes he did...forgot the Bears...lol). Brees and Rodgers got it in their ONLY tries......many, many years ago.

I think this "Good enough" argument is kinda ludicrous to be honest. If The Chiefs don't convert 3rd and 15 for 40 plus yards, Niners likely win the Super Bowl regardless of what Jimmy does. He was already "Good Enough".

Its like we make the SB this unreachable standard when in reality its just another game. There are like 5 different plays that if any one of them happens differently the Niners with #6. It simply didn't shake out that way. Some of that was Jimmy and some of it wasn't.

I think we need to stop putting these ludicrous standards on players, starting with Jimmy. Jimmy doesn't need to be a "top 5 QB" to win a ring. Its a team sport, not a "Top 5 QB" sport. DO great QBs make it easier? Damn right.

Right now though, we don't know what Jimmy is...just as we didn't at this point know what Drew Brees was. Dude had a good year. Why must we make more of it than that/ The national media will write him off. So what?

I've read before on some threads that we should not look at stats and ask ourselves if the NFL world views Jimmy as a top 5 QB. Well of course they don't. The media narrative is that he blows and might as well retire right now. DOn't buy that hype. Thats just for the world of "hot takes". Its BS.

I dunno if Jimmy will be a middling QB, a really good QB, or a superstar QB. Nobody does. NOBODY saw Brees here after he left the Chargers. NOBODY thought Brady would be here...and that was after he'd won a few SBs.

Let just say Jimmy had a good year, the team got further than any of us thought, and leave it at that. Somehow, losing the SB has become an order of magnitude WORSE than losing a Conference Championship game.