Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by random49er:
It's okay that we run alot more...if we do. The problem is needing a QB that can get you out of jams should things be accounted for and theyre rushing the passer.

okay, and Jimmy has done that for us all season. and bailed out the defense numerous times for that matter.

False

k then you didn't watch the regular season then lol

I wonder if only 10 % of the posters in this thread actually watch the games when they are sober?

their posts are nothing but reactionary. emotion, and nothing else. if it weren't for FIVE, yes, FIVE games this season we would be 8-8. 5 specific games Jimmy put the team on his shoulders and threw big numbers to win, OR threw a game-clinching TD to win. how the f**k do people forget these moments? they were stressful and exciting games to watch lol

they were literally the ONLY games during the season in which the defense did NOT dominate, and we kind of had to abandon the run because of it

Some people have no idea what a good quarter back is. The mods should force them to what Jonnydels Football Academy clips from every game and then unsuspend them once they have watched them and passed a two hour written exam.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by random49er:
It's okay that we run alot more...if we do. The problem is needing a QB that can get you out of jams should things be accounted for and theyre rushing the passer.

okay, and Jimmy has done that for us all season. and bailed out the defense numerous times for that matter.

False

k then you didn't watch the regular season then lol

I wonder if only 10 % of the posters in this thread actually watch the games when they are sober?

their posts are nothing but reactionary. emotion, and nothing else. if it weren't for FIVE, yes, FIVE games this season we would be 8-8. 5 specific games Jimmy put the team on his shoulders and threw big numbers to win, OR threw a game-clinching TD to win. how the f**k do people forget these moments? they were stressful and exciting games to watch lol

they were literally the ONLY games during the season in which the defense did NOT dominate, and we kind of had to abandon the run because of it

Some people have no idea what a good quarter back is. The mods should force them to what Jonnydels Football Academy clips from every game and then unsuspend them once they have watched them and passed a two hour written exam.

yep. ive tuned into every film thread and watched every Jonnydel video. at least of the offense.

but ive also seen mostly every film thread dating back to even Jim Harbaugh when we had Colin Kaepernick on film with the offense. when thl was the primary film thread creator.

the difference between actual "quarterbacking" from within the pocket with him and Jimmy is night and day

people forget so quick how bad the QB play used to be and fail to understand we have a legitimate franchise QB since Young or Garcia. it's crazy.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:

Originally posted by genus49:
Be prepared for

"You can't compare numbers because the NFL is so different from 4-5 years ago"

It's pretty simple to me. It takes more than one year to develop any quarterback in any system outside of high school. It's the NFL...its going to take time. There isn't a single free agent quarterback who would do any better, especially given the complexity of the offense.

Come on guys, it's not rocket science. It's not the offense Jimmy or other QBs don't understand. It's the ability to know what the defense will be doing is what gets Jimmy and most other QBs in trouble.

Once Jimmy applies the same plays numerous times against different defenses more often, then he will be better at getting the ball to the right places.

Are you new to the WCO?

Tom Brady would have to learn an entirely new system and language if he came here and all of the intricacies that come with it.

What I'm saying is that it's not rocket science. NFL offenses are more about the player and their desire to study or their ability to retain information. What makes an offense unstoppable is when the QB has applied every play against all types of defenses numerous times to the point where the QB knows exactly what the defense is going to do. That's what Brady had in NE. His offense wasn't very complicated, it's just that he knew exactly where to go against any type of defense and he was able to decipher defenses.

Right now, Kyle is telling Jimmy what to look for. Once Jimmy is able to decipher defenses for every play in the playbook, he will be unstoppable. Until then, he will keep making what appears to be some dumb throws.

And that's the stuff that takes time to learn as a starter. The ability to read defenses pre/post snap super fast and knowing where all your guys are going to be and understanding based on the matchups where you should go is something that takes time.

Brady didn't become a master at it until well into his starting career. Some guys get it faster than others but few master it early in their career...some never do.

Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:

All you folks wanting to ditch Garoppolo after a single season as starter need a history lesson.

2015 - 21 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, 4500 yards, 89.9 quarterback rating, 69.6 QBR (ESPN)
2016 - 38 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, 4944 yards, 117.1 quarterback rating, 79.4 QBR (ESPN)

Those are Matt Ryan's numbers with Shannahan as his OC. He improved astronomically in his second season in the system. Actually, he set career marks during the 2016 season. Ryan didn't play for Shannahan until his 8th year as a starter. Have some patience. Garoppolo's been a starter for 1 year. Here are his numbers from this season:

2019 - 27 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 3978 yards, 102.0 quarterback rating, 60.2 QBR (ESPN)

That's pretty comparable considering that our receiver situation early on and our heavy use of the run.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaroJi00.htm

Needs to be pointed out that it wasn't just Matt Ryan's first year in the system it was every single player on Atlanta's team 1st season. This was our team's 3rd year in the system and Jimmy's 2.5. To think he's going to be the MVP next year is most likely wishful thinking. He may improve, he may not. It's hardly a guarantee.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:
All you folks wanting to ditch Garoppolo after a single season as starter need a history lesson.

2015 - 21 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, 4500 yards, 89.9 quarterback rating, 69.6 QBR (ESPN)
2016 - 38 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, 4944 yards, 117.1 quarterback rating, 79.4 QBR (ESPN)

Those are Matt Ryan's numbers with Shannahan as his OC. He improved astronomically in his second season in the system. Actually, he set career marks during the 2016 season. Ryan didn't play for Shannahan until his 8th year as a starter. Have some patience. Garoppolo's been a starter for 1 year. Here are his numbers from this season:

2019 - 27 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 3978 yards, 102.0 quarterback rating, 60.2 QBR (ESPN)

That's pretty comparable considering that our receiver situation early on and our heavy use of the run.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaroJi00.htm

Needs to be pointed out that it wasn't just Matt Ryan's first year in the system it was every single player on Atlanta's team 1st season. This was our team's 3rd year in the system and Jimmy's 2.5. To think he's going to be the MVP next year is most likely wishful thinking. He may improve, he may not. It's hardly a guarantee.

Why don't you point out that it was also Matt Ryan's 8th year in the NFL and he had 7 years of starting experience heading into that first season or does that fact not fit with your narrative?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:

Originally posted by genus49:

Be prepared for

"You can't compare numbers because the NFL is so different from 4-5 years ago"

It's pretty simple to me. It takes more than one year to develop any quarterback in any system outside of high school. It's the NFL...its going to take time. There isn't a single free agent quarterback who would do any better, especially given the complexity of the offense.

Come on guys, it's not rocket science. It's not the offense Jimmy or other QBs don't understand. It's the ability to know what the defense will be doing is what gets Jimmy and most other QBs in trouble.

Once Jimmy applies the same plays numerous times against different defenses more often, then he will be better at getting the ball to the right places.

Are you new to the WCO?

Tom Brady would have to learn an entirely new system and language if he came here and all of the intricacies that come with it.

What I'm saying is that it's not rocket science. NFL offenses are more about the player and their desire to study or their ability to retain information. What makes an offense unstoppable is when the QB has applied every play against all types of defenses numerous times to the point where the QB knows exactly what the defense is going to do. That's what Brady had in NE. His offense wasn't very complicated, it's just that he knew exactly where to go against any type of defense and he was able to decipher defenses.

Right now, Kyle is telling Jimmy what to look for. Once Jimmy is able to decipher defenses for every play in the playbook, he will be unstoppable. Until then, he will keep making what appears to be some dumb throws.

And that's the stuff that takes time to learn as a starter. The ability to read defenses pre/post snap super fast and knowing where all your guys are going to be and understanding based on the matchups where you should go is something that takes time.

Brady didn't become a master at it until well into his starting career. Some guys get it faster than others but few master it early in their career...some never do.

The WCO is rocket science in many ways...or at minimum, just the terminology alone is the equivalent to learning a foreign language just to be able to function within the huddle. Then it's about reading defenses, audibles, timing and level for each receiver option, nuances, and finally, understanding why Kyle is calling that series of calls. This is why every WCO QB doesn't master it faster than two years...most three+ and with the way the WCO evolves, fine-tuning and player changeover, it's a constant learning process. Like golf, do you ever really master it?

This was another reason why Mike Shanahan spent the entire year with him simply from a mental standpoint. He could do it again this year too.

Originally posted by genus49:

Why don't you point out that it was also Matt Ryan's 8th year in the NFL and he had 7 years of starting experience heading into that first season or does that fact not fit with your narrative?

Originally posted by genus49:

Why don't you point out that it was also Matt Ryan's 8th year in the NFL and he had 7 years of starting experience heading into that first season or does that fact not fit with your narrative?

Point is it goes far beyond the qb as your transitioning personnel which typically still isn't there in 1 season. How much of our team was set after year 1? We still had to get rid of Brown, Hyde, had placeholders in Garcon, Goodwin. Atl is not as extreme as that we were building from scratch but still they had to add Sanu, Alex Mack, Gabriel in 16. Then you got Ryan trying to work with a new oc. Jimmy should get better but the jump is nowhere near as drastic.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:

Why don't you point out that it was also Matt Ryan's 8th year in the NFL and he had 7 years of starting experience heading into that first season or does that fact not fit with your narrative?

Point is it goes far beyond the qb as your transitioning personnel which typically still isn't there in 1 season. How much of our team was set after year 1? We still had to get rid of Brown, Hyde, had placeholders in Garcon, Goodwin. Atl is not as extreme as that we were building from scratch but still they had to add Sanu, Alex Mack, Gabriel in 16. Then you got Ryan trying to work with a new oc. Jimmy should get better but the jump is nowhere near as drastic.

The jump hasnt even happened yet. I think a lot of next seasons success as an offense is going to come down to the maturity of Deebo Samuel and the rest of our young, inexperienced receiving corps. There are a lot of factors that play into a quarterbacks success but historically, quarterbacks get better when they stay in the same offensive system for multiple years. I wouldn't be surprised to see the team play at a higher level next year solely because of that.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:
Why don't you point out that it was also Matt Ryan's 8th year in the NFL and he had 7 years of starting experience heading into that first season or does that fact not fit with your narrative?

Point is it goes far beyond the qb as your transitioning personnel which typically still isn't there in 1 season. How much of our team was set after year 1? We still had to get rid of Brown, Hyde, had placeholders in Garcon, Goodwin. Atl is not as extreme as that we were building from scratch but still they had to add Sanu, Alex Mack, Gabriel in 16. Then you got Ryan trying to work with a new oc. Jimmy should get better but the jump is nowhere near as drastic.

Nobody here is saying Jimmy is automatically going to be league MVP and have an equal or better season to what Ryan had with Atlanta.

Your comment came off like you were attributing Ryan's slow start in Shanahan's system to the fact that the rest of the team had to get adjusted to it and that wasn't the case for Jimmy.

Fact is Ryan had a lot of things going for him that Jimmy hadn't so the comparison balances itself out. I'd say the weapons Ryan had that first season, his experience certainly gives us a good base to judge from.

It doens't guarantee anything but as far as discussions go it's certainly a logic leap to think Jimmy can make a jump in play once he's healthy and has a full year+ of starting experience in this offense.

Originally posted by genus49:

Nobody here is saying Jimmy is automatically going to be league MVP and have an equal or better season to what Ryan had with Atlanta.

Your comment came off like you were attributing Ryan's slow start in Shanahan's system to the fact that the rest of the team had to get adjusted to it and that wasn't the case for Jimmy.

Fact is Ryan had a lot of things going for him that Jimmy hadn't so the comparison balances itself out. I'd say the weapons Ryan had that first season, his experience certainly gives us a good base to judge from.

It doens't guarantee anything but as far as discussions go it's certainly a logic leap to think Jimmy can make a jump in play once he's healthy and has a full year+ of starting experience in this offense.

It's not apples to apples imo. Everyone is different. Ryan wasn't coming off a torn ACL and learning how to run again. After an injury like that you act a little different when under pressure...stats back that up in Jimmy's case.

Ryan could be (and probably is) just an all-around better QB. Like you said he had multiple seasons to see all kinda of coverages/blitz packages etc. he also played in a power 5 conference in college. Jimmy did not...everything isn't considered equal IMO. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Jimmy will improve. Will he be an MVP? I mean I don't think so, but doesn't have to be.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Yards wise KC was actually 17th not 13th or 3lst. Like most Reid d's though they were a better scoring d even better then ours on the year btw. That's what happens when you don't turn the ball over left and right on o. It's fair to say their d is no joke. They have a very poor run defense though and because of that we had opportunities all over the place. Moving the ball on them was never hard that game and the only the difference in the end was Jimmy just couldn't hit them in the 4th as well as leaving a few big ones on the board earlier.

Pass D was 13th and a cocks length from 8th @ 4.8 yards since the passing D is kinda the one that matters when Jimmy G is passing, no?
And like I said, pass D went to 3rd or 4th the final games including playoffs.. that's a damn good pass D.. you know, to counter when we pass.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Nobody here is saying Jimmy is automatically going to be league MVP and have an equal or better season to what Ryan had with Atlanta.

Your comment came off like you were attributing Ryan's slow start in Shanahan's system to the fact that the rest of the team had to get adjusted to it and that wasn't the case for Jimmy.

Fact is Ryan had a lot of things going for him that Jimmy hadn't so the comparison balances itself out. I'd say the weapons Ryan had that first season, his experience certainly gives us a good base to judge from.

It doens't guarantee anything but as far as discussions go it's certainly a logic leap to think Jimmy can make a jump in play once he's healthy and has a full year+ of starting experience in this offense.

It's not apples to apples imo. Everyone is different. Ryan wasn't coming off a torn ACL and learning how to run again. After an injury like that you act a little different when under pressure...stats back that up in Jimmy's case.

Ryan could be (and probably is) just an all-around better QB. Like you said he had multiple seasons to see all kinda of coverages/blitz packages etc. he also played in a power 5 conference in college. Jimmy did not...everything isn't considered equal IMO. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Jimmy will improve. Will he be an MVP? I mean I don't think so, but doesn't have to be.

Agreed. It's also why I think the people who come in with "you can't compare numbers from season X to last year" while having a solid point also essentially make excuses against people who are trying to look on the bright side.

Whether we like it or not Jimmy's situation is very unique and it's hard to find a QB who has had a similar situation to him.

We've seen some guys bring up Aaron Rodgers like situation because he sat for a few years behind a legend - but Aaron didn't have to go to another team, learn a new offense and play with guys he hasn't had around him for a few years.

We've seen the Matt Ryan comps due to Shanny's scheme but there is a clear discrepancy in starting experience.

Then sprinkle in Jimmy's knee injury and it's a whole different ball game which makes his case so different which is why all we can do is look at what he's shown so far and hope his growth is considerable with time and he turns into a top tier QB.

Doesn't mean he will but personally I've seen enough glimpses of elite traits to make me think he's more likely to grow into a top tier QB versus turn into a guy who is a career backup or mid level QB.

Here is what we do know.

about Jimmy:

Jimmy has shown a lot more clutch moments at the end of games than failures. As much as losing the SB hurt and it doesn't get as big of a game overall Jimmy has shown he can handle the big moments and comes through late in games more times than not.
Jimmy has shown the ability to win and produce results with inferior talent - 2017 run.
Jimmy is a hard worker without a big ego.

about the NFL/QB position

ACL injuries typically take 2 years to fully heal from unless you're a freak like Adrian Peterson.
QBs are able to see things more clearly with more game experience
Kyle's offense is one that takes time to master
QBs spending more time with receivers builds better chemistry/trust

With all that in mind logically Jimmy should improve. It doesn't mean he will but if i'm putting money on it that's where I'm putting it.

Originally posted by genus49:
Agreed. It's also why I think the people who come in with "you can't compare numbers from season X to last year" while having a solid point also essentially make excuses against people who are trying to look on the bright side.

Whether we like it or not Jimmy's situation is very unique and it's hard to find a QB who has had a similar situation to him.

We've seen some guys bring up Aaron Rodgers like situation because he sat for a few years behind a legend - but Aaron didn't have to go to another team, learn a new offense and play with guys he hasn't had around him for a few years.

We've seen the Matt Ryan comps due to Shanny's scheme but there is a clear discrepancy in starting experience.

Then sprinkle in Jimmy's knee injury and it's a whole different ball game which makes his case so different which is why all we can do is look at what he's shown so far and hope his growth is considerable with time and he turns into a top tier QB.

Doesn't mean he will but personally I've seen enough glimpses of elite traits to make me think he's more likely to grow into a top tier QB versus turn into a guy who is a career backup or mid level QB.

Here is what we do know.

about Jimmy:

Jimmy has shown a lot more clutch moments at the end of games than failures. As much as losing the SB hurt and it doesn't get as big of a game overall Jimmy has shown he can handle the big moments and comes through late in games more times than not.
Jimmy has shown the ability to win and produce results with inferior talent - 2017 run.
Jimmy is a hard worker without a big ego.

about the NFL/QB position

ACL injuries typically take 2 years to fully heal from unless you're a freak like Adrian Peterson.
QBs are able to see things more clearly with more game experience
Kyle's offense is one that takes time to master
QBs spending more time with receivers builds better chemistry/trust

With all that in mind logically Jimmy should improve. It doesn't mean he will but if i'm putting money on it that's where I'm putting it.

agreed.