Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by NYniner85:
See this is where you're missing the point....

KC had a great team before Mahomes stepped on the field. They had a great scouting department, great FO, great coaching staff etc...Mahomes didn't even have to step on the field for a whole yr. Mahomes himself said he learned a ton from Alex and wasn't ready to be a NFL QB. Mahomes was GIVEN an amazing opportunity...you think he'd be the same guy if he was forced to play day 1 for say the Jets with their roster and Adam Gase? No f**king way.

In fact go look at all the s**t teams that have been drafting a QB early...they did want you said and sucked for yrs just to get their one shot to land a "FQB" problem is their teams were awful and so was the organization. More often then not it didn't/hasn't worked out and it's not just about the QB not being who they thought he was...its was the roster and coaching staff being as BAD as they were and hoping the QB would magically fix it.

SO yes, I would rather have a good team with a good QB win a bunch of games for 4 to 5 yrs THEN throw all my chips on a QB with massive upside that I don't need to play for a yr because I have a QB like Alex Smith.

This is why it bothers me when JG supporters get upset when he's criticized and say he's only had one full season in the NFL. That's true but as you pointed out, Mahomes said he learned a lot from Alex Smith sitting behind him for a year. I have to think that JG learned something from Brady and Belichick which is why I think he doesn't have as much room to improve as some. He's not a 21 year old rookie.

Originally posted by scooterp10:
I saw a stat during their game Monday night. Mahomes in September:

32 TDs
0 INTs

Undefeated

That is pretty remarkable.

He's also the fastest to reach 10,000 yards. (34 games) You want to hate these guys like him that beat your team but he's hard to hate. He's fun to watch with all the crazy throws he makes and he looks like he has fun.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Mahomes is ranked #1 out of all QBs in EPA in 2020. But yeah meh season, amirite?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/cwepaTotal/dir/desc

I am sorry. I meant CPOE not EPA:


When you compare his average grade there against his insanely high EPA the picture that emerges from the metrics is that he's benefiting from superior playcalling and offensive weapons.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
KC had a great team before Mahomes stepped on the field. They had a great scouting department, great FO, great coaching staff etc...Mahomes didn't even have to step on the field for a whole yr. Mahomes himself said he learned a ton from Alex and wasn't ready to be a NFL QB. Mahomes was GIVEN an amazing opportunity...you think he'd be the same guy if he was forced to play day 1 for say the Jets with their roster and Adam Gase? No f**king way.

In fact go look at all the s**t teams that have been drafting a QB early...they did want you said and sucked for yrs just to get their one shot to land a "FQB" problem is their teams were awful and so was the organization. More often then not it didn't/hasn't worked out and it's not just about the QB not being who they thought he was...its was the roster and coaching staff being as BAD as they were and hoping the QB would magically fix it.

SO yes, I would rather have a good team with a good QB win a bunch of games for 4 to 5 yrs THEN throw all my chips on a QB with massive upside that I don't need to play for a yr because I have a QB like Alex Smith.

True. True.

It was the perfect situation for Mahomes. The team was very talented before he arrived. Smith took them to the playoffs two years in a row and had it not been for an unprecedented string of defensive injuries in the Indy game and the worst DC in the league against Tennessee, they would have at least reached the AFCCG. Mahomes was just a very healthy level of icing on an already nice cake.

All of which only goes to prove the truth of your last sentence.

This current team cannot compete against KC with Jimmy as QB AND the level of receiving weapons they have last season. KC's line-up of weapons is unprecedented in recent years.

Originally posted by dj43:
True. True.

It was the perfect situation for Mahomes. The team was very talented before he arrived. Smith took them to the playoffs two years in a row and had it not been for an unprecedented string of defensive injuries in the Indy game and the worst DC in the league against Tennessee, they would have at least reached the AFCCG. Mahomes was just a very healthy level of icing on an already nice cake.

All of which only goes to prove the truth of your last sentence.

This current team cannot compete against KC with Jimmy as QB AND the level of receiving weapons they have last season. KC's line-up of weapons is unprecedented in recent years.

I wouldn't say the Niners can't compete with KC. They competed really well 53 minutes. Right now with all the injuries it wouldn't be very competitive.

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Mahomes is ranked #1 out of all QBs in EPA in 2020. But yeah meh season, amirite?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/sort/cwepaTotal/dir/desc

I am sorry. I meant CPOE not EPA:

Weeks 1-3 Update. As others have already noted after his MNF blunder of a game, Patty Mahomes is just your average QB... #meh... and Scotty Miller is Tampa's real deal pic.twitter.com/8Nj7ZmKvnb

— Antonio Losada (@chapulana) September 30, 2020

When you compare his average grade there against his insanely high EPA the picture that emerges from the metrics is that he's benefiting from superior playcalling and offensive weapons.

That not the picture you get watching the actual game. Some of those throws were unbelievable. He makes it look easy

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
See this is where you're missing the point....

KC had a great team before Mahomes stepped on the field. They had a great scouting department, great FO, great coaching staff etc...Mahomes didn't even have to step on the field for a whole yr. Mahomes himself said he learned a ton from Alex and wasn't ready to be a NFL QB. Mahomes was GIVEN an amazing opportunity...you think he'd be the same guy if he was forced to play day 1 for say the Jets with their roster and Adam Gase? No f**king way.

In fact go look at all the s**t teams that have been drafting a QB early...they did want you said and sucked for yrs just to get their one shot to land a "FQB" problem is their teams were awful and so was the organization. More often then not it didn't/hasn't worked out and it's not just about the QB not being who they thought he was...its was the roster and coaching staff being as BAD as they were and hoping the QB would magically fix it.

SO yes, I would rather have a good team with a good QB win a bunch of games for 4 to 5 yrs THEN throw all my chips on a QB with massive upside that I don't need to play for a yr because I have a QB like Alex Smith.

This is why it bothers me when JG supporters get upset when he's criticized and say he's only had one full season in the NFL. That's true but as you pointed out, Mahomes said he learned a lot from Alex Smith sitting behind him for a year. I have to think that JG learned something from Brady and Belichick which is why I think he doesn't have as much room to improve as some. He's not a 21 year old rookie.

There is a big difference in learning from Tom Brady and Alex Smith.

Alex Smith is a really good dude who doesn't mind teaching things to a guy likely to replace him. Tom Brady hates to give up any snaps in blowout wins or even in practice. That's like saying Steve Young became good learning from Joe. Ask Young if sitting behind Montana was so great...

Another thing is Mahomes is clearly an elite talent and QB. He came into the perfect situation with a loaded roster and didn't have to worry about recovering from a torn ACL.

You're comparing one to the other as if sitting behind a vet QB is the only thing that goes into being a certain type of QB.

And once again...nobody says that sitting behind thsoe guys doesn't help at all. But actually playing vs teams who are coming for you is another thing all together.
Game starts > sitting on the bench behind a vet QB in the NFL
Sitting on the bench behind a vet QB in the NFL > playing in college

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
See this is where you're missing the point....

KC had a great team before Mahomes stepped on the field. They had a great scouting department, great FO, great coaching staff etc...Mahomes didn't even have to step on the field for a whole yr. Mahomes himself said he learned a ton from Alex and wasn't ready to be a NFL QB. Mahomes was GIVEN an amazing opportunity...you think he'd be the same guy if he was forced to play day 1 for say the Jets with their roster and Adam Gase? No f**king way.

In fact go look at all the s**t teams that have been drafting a QB early...they did want you said and sucked for yrs just to get their one shot to land a "FQB" problem is their teams were awful and so was the organization. More often then not it didn't/hasn't worked out and it's not just about the QB not being who they thought he was...its was the roster and coaching staff being as BAD as they were and hoping the QB would magically fix it.

SO yes, I would rather have a good team with a good QB win a bunch of games for 4 to 5 yrs THEN throw all my chips on a QB with massive upside that I don't need to play for a yr because I have a QB like Alex Smith.

This is why it bothers me when JG supporters get upset when he's criticized and say he's only had one full season in the NFL. That's true but as you pointed out, Mahomes said he learned a lot from Alex Smith sitting behind him for a year. I have to think that JG learned something from Brady and Belichick which is why I think he doesn't have as much room to improve as some. He's not a 21 year old rookie.

Yeah I mean I don't think he sucks as a QB, he's good... do I think 7 yrs into his career he's gonna magically take it to elite status? That's the question. He doesn't have the ceiling as far as raw talent goes...so he's gotta master everything else like reading defenses like Brady/Manning. Work on mechanics so that he can be consistently sniper accurate like Montana/Brees. know the scheme like the back of his hand...Those are things he can improve upon and it should happen this yr if it's gonna IMO. It's not like Jimmy G has ever been put in a s**tty position so far into his career.

As far as Mahomes, he fell into the perfect scenario. A LOT of highly drafted QBs do not and they end up failing. There's no way you were gonna tell me Andrew Luck's career was gonna go the way it did when he was drafted. Bad situation/bad FO/bad coaching/bad team etc. Even he couldn't overcome that s**t.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SD49er:

This thread has gone off the rails. Jimmy has one bad game against the Cardinals and all the sudden people are comparing him to Alex Smith and talking about Foles or Trubiski being better than him?! The expectations of 49ers fans are so unrealistic to the point where the fan base wants to dump a franchise qb with the hope of drafting the next Mahomes, which is insane. Look around the league at young quarterbacks. Jackson, Watson, Murray, Dak, Josh Allen, Minshew, Wentz, Cousins, Carr, Darnold, Stafford, and Mayfield has literally done squat in this league. I would not trade Jimmy for any of these guys based on the play I have seen from Jimmy. Goff and Ryan made it to super bowls, and have shown the ability, but Ryan is getting old and Goff is completely reliant on a run game. Even Mahomes played terrible in the super bowl. If it wasn't for an atrocious non call on Bosa on the Hill third down play the Chief's get skunked. People act like Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers have been perfect. These guys collectively have blown so many playoff games. People talk about Rodgers being the greatest talent ever (before Mahomes) and the guy won one super bowl. It took Russel Wilson years to develop into the QB he is today. The grass is very rarely greener when you have a QB who can actually play. Jimmy put up legit franchise numbers in his first full year, leads the league in fourth quarter wins, plays amazing on third down, and takes the team to the SB, but people are like "not good enough." This is crazy to me. Even Greg Cosell, who does a fantastic job evaluating QBs, really likes Jimmy. If we dump Jimmy, he will go to the Bears or Patriots and compete for a SB every year and we will all wish he was back on our team.

Talent wise he's very comparable to Alex Smith, you know the guy that was the #1 draft pick at one point?

It was never meant to be a dis or anything....I didn't realize ya'll would still be so triggered over all of that. With a good OC and solid roster Jimmy and Alex will win you a lot of games. That's NOT a bad thing.

I'm sorry you're being a homer if you wouldn't trade Jimmy for Watson, Dak, wentz, or even Allen at this point. Listen I like Jimmy as much as the next Niner fan but for the love of god let's be objective here.

Did you watch Cosell talk about Jimmy after the SB? Apparently not with that comment you said...Jimmy is a good QB he's gotta dial it up a notch this yr....if not what are you doing letting him play out his contract? Giving him an extension?

Dak with Kyle and our weapons would be f**king amazing. Part of me hope he tests the market.

Originally posted by genus49:

There is a big difference in learning from Tom Brady and Alex Smith.

Alex Smith is a really good dude who doesn't mind teaching things to a guy likely to replace him. Tom Brady hates to give up any snaps in blowout wins or even in practice. That's like saying Steve Young became good learning from Joe. Ask Young if sitting behind Montana was so great...

Another thing is Mahomes is clearly an elite talent and QB. He came into the perfect situation with a loaded roster and didn't have to worry about recovering from a torn ACL.

You're comparing one to the other as if sitting behind a vet QB is the only thing that goes into being a certain type of QB.

And once again...nobody says that sitting behind thsoe guys doesn't help at all. But actually playing vs teams who are coming for you is another thing all together.
Game starts > sitting on the bench behind a vet QB in the NFL
Sitting on the bench behind a vet QB in the NFL > playing in college

Let's stop acting like Jimmy has had some raw deal and has been put in poor situations.

He got to learn how to be a professional NFL QB by watching Tom Brady. He was surrounded by some of the best coaching staffs in the league his whole career. He got TIME to learn and not being forced out there. Yes game snaps are the number #1 thing to help a player grow...but a D2 QB from eastern Illinois was not ready to play in the NFL day 1. SO IMO Jimmy has been placed in some of the best scenarios a player can ask for.

Games played when your team is trash and you have a poor HC does not help a young player IMO. Go look at all the young early rd QBs that played on trash teams. Do they all just suck or did they get put in bad situations to begin with?

Jimmy has just about everything you can ask for as a QB. Time to dial it up a notch this yr....if he doesn't he might just be who he is, a good not great QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah I mean I don't think he sucks as a QB, he's good... do I think 7 yrs into his career he's gonna magically take it to elite status? That's the question. He doesn't have the ceiling as far as raw talent goes...so he's gotta master everything else like reading defenses like Brady/Manning. Work on mechanics so that he can be consistently sniper accurate like Montana/Brees. know the scheme like the back of his hand...Those are things he can improve upon and it should happen this yr if it's gonna IMO. It's not like Jimmy G has ever been put in a s**tty position so far into his career.

As far as Mahomes, he fell into the perfect scenario. A LOT of highly drafted QBs do not and they end up failing. There's no way you were gonna tell me Andrew Luck's career was gonna go the way it did when he was drafted. Bad situation/bad FO/bad coaching/bad team etc. Even he couldn't overcome that s**t.

Luck and the Colts were actually looking like they might turn the corner and be competitive but then his arm or shoulder was injured. Career over. I agree that Jimmy didn't land in a bad situation. Playing first for the Pats and then coming to the Niners with a coach like Kyle isn't bad. I actually think the Niners talents on defense is better than KC when everyone is healthy. Offense isn't that different either other than Mahomes and Hill. They have an edge on WRs but our running game is more explosive.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Luck and the Colts were actually looking like they might turn the corner and be competitive but then his arm or shoulder was injured. Career over. I agree that Jimmy didn't land in a bad situation. Playing first for the Pats and then coming to the Niners with a coach like Kyle isn't bad. I actually think the Niners talents on defense is better than KC when everyone is healthy. Offense isn't that different either other than Mahomes and Hill. They have an edge on WRs but our running game is more explosive.

People complain about the SF OL...go look at that INDY OL for 90% of Luck's career he got killed and the injuries ruined his career. They were a bad team minus Luck

Originally posted by NCommand:

More Shanahan on Garoppolo from his "that scenario doesn't exist" answer:

"This is Jimmy's team. He's done a hell of a job for us. When he's healthy, he'll be playing again for us." https://t.co/jf6ndk03OJ

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) September 30, 2020

The key word "when healthy"

Originally posted by NYniner85:
People complain about the SF OL...go look at that INDY OL for 90% of Luck's career he got killed and the injuries ruined his career. They were a bad team minus Luck

Yah you're right. The Colts were 10-6 his last season and they knew they had to get him better protection if they wanted to advance in the playoffs so they drafted Quenton Nelson. Problem was Luck was already damaged and that was that.