Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:

Originally posted by Joecool:
When is Jimmy coming back?

This week?

Week 15.

If they're the 7 seed by week 15 I'm not sure if I want Jimmy under center he might s**t the bed. Defense is getting healthy and Nick can move the offense. Stick with Nick

His ankle was a lot worse than Kyle thought it was. Kyle put him back too soon, which made Jimmy look even worse. He'll be fine just as long as he's 100% before he comes back.

Come on no more excuses for Jimmy I don't care how handsome he is. It's like if he plays well he's healthy, if starts to poop the bed then he starts limping. I'm over him. Nick for this year and Zach for next.

I agree. He looked okay the last time he played until he got hit on the lower leg again. They said it wasn't the same injury but a new one. Whether that's true or not, Kyle didn't force him to play. If a player says he's good to go and the doc's give him the okay then he plays. There are large numbers of players that go out there every week at less than 100% including some of the QBs. In the NFL, if you have to be 100% to play, you aren't going to play very much.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:

Originally posted by Joecool:
When is Jimmy coming back?

This week?

Week 15.

If they're the 7 seed by week 15 I'm not sure if I want Jimmy under center he might s**t the bed. Defense is getting healthy and Nick can move the offense. Stick with Nick

His ankle was a lot worse than Kyle thought it was. Kyle put him back too soon, which made Jimmy look even worse. He'll be fine just as long as he's 100% before he comes back.

Come on no more excuses for Jimmy I don't care how handsome he is. It's like if he plays well he's healthy, if starts to poop the bed then he starts limping. I'm over him. Nick for this year and Zach for next.

I agree. He looked okay the last time he played until he got hit on the lower leg again. They said it wasn't the same injury but a new one. Whether that's true or not, Kyle didn't force him to play. If a player says he's good to go and the doc's give him the okay then he plays. There are large numbers of players that go out there every week at less than 100% including some of the QBs. In the NFL, if you have to be 100% to play, you aren't going to play very much.

At a certain point in the healing process, a high ankle is a pain tolerance issue. The doctor can't measure that. No way to know until it is tried out. And since it's QB, it's easy to drop back and sling it 20 yards in a warm up and tell your coach, I'm good to go as compared to having to do that with people trying to take you down.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by random49er:

I think he does make QBs appear better given the time. His scouting is in question though.

We're judging his "scouting" off of one draft when he had like 2 months to evaluate, get a coaching staff, get a FO/GM, and evaluate his own team All while knowing he had a great shot at getting Kirk (right or wrong).

That's a pretty small sample size imo.

FWIW I remember people questioning his WR scouting before Deebo/Aiuyk as well.

1) I'm not judging right now,... which is why I say it's in question. He has 1 more strike before I pass judgment.

2) What's 10×'s more alarming than a single draft' s results -- for me at least -- is his willingness by now to have held onto Beathard and Mullens for THIS LONG without a legitimate attempt to develop someone else in 1 of their spots.

I certainly consider judging your own backup and "scout team" players to fall under the scouting umbrella.

Keeping 1 of them up to now, I can excuse. Keeping both simply tells me he guessed wrong -- flat out, plain and simple.


Good coaches learn to let go and learn from their mistakes, though. So we will see what happens with this position.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Milpitasbob:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:

Originally posted by Joecool:

When is Jimmy coming back?

This week?

Week 15.

If they're the 7 seed by week 15 I'm not sure if I want Jimmy under center he might s**t the bed. Defense is getting healthy and Nick can move the offense. Stick with Nick

His ankle was a lot worse than Kyle thought it was. Kyle put him back too soon, which made Jimmy look even worse. He'll be fine just as long as he's 100% before he comes back.

Come on no more excuses for Jimmy I don't care how handsome he is. It's like if he plays well he's healthy, if starts to poop the bed then he starts limping. I'm over him. Nick for this year and Zach for next.

I agree. He looked okay the last time he played until he got hit on the lower leg again. They said it wasn't the same injury but a new one. Whether that's true or not, Kyle didn't force him to play. If a player says he's good to go and the doc's give him the okay then he plays. There are large numbers of players that go out there every week at less than 100% including some of the QBs. In the NFL, if you have to be 100% to play, you aren't going to play very much.

I know. I loved him last year but then again when you win you tend to overlook the bad passes and limited abilities. You can't force feed someone to be elite like Lynch and Kyle tried to do with Jimmy. He's basically the same as Wentz, Goff and Foles. Average at best when healthy.

Goff went #1 overall so huge disappointment with him. U just don't get #1 overall picks back.

With Jimmy, even with the injuries, I could say he's at least earned his money up to this point so long as we get out of the deal at the right time (if need be).

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Why would I forget Goff unless your goal is to lose a SB? We did that last year and you're looking to replace Jimmy.

Wentz wasn't the starting QB and Foles while cheap wasn't on his rookie deal. Are you going to say the way to win SBs is to find a cheap backup and rely on him in the playoffs?

It's a stretch man. Your ultimate point is to find a stud QB and hope your team is good enough when he's on his rookie deal because that gives you the best window to win multiple but out of all the guys who were on their rookie deals only 1 got back to the SB and none have won it more than once though of course Mahomes is likely on his way to doing it unless something breaks down but he's arguably the best QB in the game right now and has the contract extension of half a billion to show for it.

There have been multiple teams who have invested in QB early who had pretty good teams and they didn't get to the SB or won it. Flacco was the only one who wasn't an elite QB and it was in his 5th year that he went on that crazy tear in the playoffs.

You "simply" need a great QB and a good team around him. These guys can't win on their own and your team has to be pretty much perfect in all other aspects if your QB isn't better than average.

Garoppolo is better than average when healthy but he's certainly nowhere near Mahomes/Wilson levels. That's why I don't mind the idea of adding a guy who MAY be...but I am hesitant to just send Jimmy away without confirming the guy we get is the real deal.

Just thinking about some of these really good teams adding young QBs early

Denver - Paxton Lynch at one point dude was considered the top QB in that class. Denver adds him to a roster that just won the SB with the Corpse of Peyton Manning. Never sniff a SB. He's out of the league in 2 years.

Ravens - Lamar Jackson - this one is still pending and he looked unreal last season but they're falling off big time this year.

Houston - traded up for Deshaun Watson - made the playoffs but fell apart, granted due to some trash GMing

KC - obviously THE decision but once again we're talking about guy considered the best QB in the game so unless your point is "find the best QB in the game in the draft" then why even bring it up?

Can't find too many other examples outside of going back to Aaron Rodgers to the Packers and he didn't win the SB until he was on his 2nd contract with them.

So in summation obviously adding a great QB talent to your team, especially with talent already on the roster is likely to get you great results. But it's not always work out that way as the Paxton Lynch example clearly shows.

Lynch had all the things people are looking to replace Jimmy with - size, athletic ability, big arm, can make all the throws, mobile, great deep ball, throws well on the run.

How'd that work out for Denver?

OMG Genus why are you trying so stubborn about this one?

Yes let's twist everything I said because you don't like it. This is a bad debate on your part dude.

Foles wasn't being paid top money, yet you don't want to bring that up. Wentz most certainly played that yr (first 13 weeks).

Dude P Lynch seriously? Everyone said he wasn't close to a NFL QB coming out of Memphis. Couldn't read a defense worth a s**t. Elway been s**tty at evaluating QBs. He couldn't even take a snap from under center. Now you're just cherry picking

I'm talking about a team being good! Making it to the playoffs...anything after that is gravy. The best QB/teams don't always end up in the SB (let alone win it all) you know this. Health, luck and just getting hot at the right time are big factors in winning it all.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-contracts-qb-with-biggest-salary-cap-hit-has-had-zero-nfl-playoff-success-over-past-decade/

Go look at it currently man...Murray, Allen, jackson, mayfield etc are looking like some more QBs on rookie contracts that are heading towards the playoffs too.

Look if you're gonna pay the QB a f**k ton of money he better be damn good! Because there's only so much cash to go around...you think Jimmy is some amazing QB, I think he's a serviceable starter who's being paid too much cash when we need that cash to maintain the overall roster/upgrade.

I have faith in our coaching staff/scouts to find a good young QB....in a ideal world Jimmy would be that bridge QB. Pre-Covid that was probably a realistic scenario.

Too each their own man.

lol not being stubborn you brought up the whole rookie contract thing like it was the secret sauce to SB wins.

I just pointed out that's not the case or you'd see a lot more young QBs winning SBs.

Out of the last 10 years only 3 guys fit the bill of what you describe and two of them are arguably the two best QBs playing the game right now. So was it their small contract that was the formula or was it their ability? Mahomes it was certainly his ability. Wilson is a toss up. The SB they won his defense outscored Denver but if I recall correctly it was also before their key guys got paid big time.

I understand your point. If we can find a young QB who is better than Jimmy it would be terrific. We know we have some heavy hitters who will need to get paid and we have guys we have to retain or wait out some of these bad contracts while trying to stay afloat. A good QB on a rookie deal would certainly do that.

But my point the whole time has been be careful what you wish for. No guarantee the young guy ends up being better than Jimmy. I understand you want to get rid of Jimmy's contract because you think he's not playing up to it but going to an unknown doesn't always guarantee the success KC or Seattle saw.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens and hope whatever move the 49ers make will not haunt us.

Originally posted by random49er:

1) I'm not judging right now,... which is why I say it's in question. He has 1 more strike before I pass judgment.

2) What's 10×'s more alarming than a single draft' s results -- for me at least -- is his willingness by now to have held onto Beathard and Mullens for THIS LONG without a legitimate attempt to develop someone else in 1 of their spots.

I certainly consider judging your own backup and "scout team" players to fall under the scouting umbrella.

Keeping 1 of them up to now, I can excuse. Keeping both simply tells me he guessed wrong -- flat out, plain and simple.


Good coaches learn to let go and learn from their mistakes, though. So we will see what happens with this position.

I mean while Beathard and Mullens are not true NFL starters they are serviceable backups...s**t I remember this time last yr (before the trade deadline) when reports were coming out that teams were interested in trading for both.

Go look around the league, most backups and "QB projects" are no better then what SF has.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by random49er:
1) I'm not judging right now,... which is why I say it's in question. He has 1 more strike before I pass judgment.

2) What's 10×'s more alarming than a single draft' s results -- for me at least -- is his willingness by now to have held onto Beathard and Mullens for THIS LONG without a legitimate attempt to develop someone else in 1 of their spots.

I certainly consider judging your own backup and "scout team" players to fall under the scouting umbrella.

Keeping 1 of them up to now, I can excuse. Keeping both simply tells me he guessed wrong -- flat out, plain and simple.

Good coaches learn to let go and learn from their mistakes, though. So we will see what happens with this position.

I mean while Beathard and Mullens are not true NFL starters they are serviceable backups...s**t I remember this time last yr (before the trade deadline) when reports were coming out that teams were interested in trading for both.

Go look around the league, most backups and "QB projects" are no better then what SF has.

We need a more athletic backup. For me, the odd one out would be CJ only because Mullens brings a mentality that's needed whereas Beathard seems more passive.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

Why would I forget Goff unless your goal is to lose a SB? We did that last year and you're looking to replace Jimmy.

Wentz wasn't the starting QB and Foles while cheap wasn't on his rookie deal. Are you going to say the way to win SBs is to find a cheap backup and rely on him in the playoffs?

It's a stretch man. Your ultimate point is to find a stud QB and hope your team is good enough when he's on his rookie deal because that gives you the best window to win multiple but out of all the guys who were on their rookie deals only 1 got back to the SB and none have won it more than once though of course Mahomes is likely on his way to doing it unless something breaks down but he's arguably the best QB in the game right now and has the contract extension of half a billion to show for it.

There have been multiple teams who have invested in QB early who had pretty good teams and they didn't get to the SB or won it. Flacco was the only one who wasn't an elite QB and it was in his 5th year that he went on that crazy tear in the playoffs.

You "simply" need a great QB and a good team around him. These guys can't win on their own and your team has to be pretty much perfect in all other aspects if your QB isn't better than average.

Garoppolo is better than average when healthy but he's certainly nowhere near Mahomes/Wilson levels. That's why I don't mind the idea of adding a guy who MAY be...but I am hesitant to just send Jimmy away without confirming the guy we get is the real deal.

Just thinking about some of these really good teams adding young QBs early

Denver - Paxton Lynch at one point dude was considered the top QB in that class. Denver adds him to a roster that just won the SB with the Corpse of Peyton Manning. Never sniff a SB. He's out of the league in 2 years.

Ravens - Lamar Jackson - this one is still pending and he looked unreal last season but they're falling off big time this year.

Houston - traded up for Deshaun Watson - made the playoffs but fell apart, granted due to some trash GMing

KC - obviously THE decision but once again we're talking about guy considered the best QB in the game so unless your point is "find the best QB in the game in the draft" then why even bring it up?

Can't find too many other examples outside of going back to Aaron Rodgers to the Packers and he didn't win the SB until he was on his 2nd contract with them.

So in summation obviously adding a great QB talent to your team, especially with talent already on the roster is likely to get you great results. But it's not always work out that way as the Paxton Lynch example clearly shows.

Lynch had all the things people are looking to replace Jimmy with - size, athletic ability, big arm, can make all the throws, mobile, great deep ball, throws well on the run.

How'd that work out for Denver?

OMG Genus why are you trying so stubborn about this one?

Yes let's twist everything I said because you don't like it. This is a bad debate on your part dude.

Foles wasn't being paid top money, yet you don't want to bring that up. Wentz most certainly played that yr (first 13 weeks).

Dude P Lynch seriously? Everyone said he wasn't close to a NFL QB coming out of Memphis. Couldn't read a defense worth a s**t. Elway been s**tty at evaluating QBs. He couldn't even take a snap from under center. Now you're just cherry picking

I'm talking about a team being good! Making it to the playoffs...anything after that is gravy. The best QB/teams don't always end up in the SB (let alone win it all) you know this. Health, luck and just getting hot at the right time are big factors in winning it all.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-contracts-qb-with-biggest-salary-cap-hit-has-had-zero-nfl-playoff-success-over-past-decade/

Go look at it currently man...Murray, Allen, jackson, mayfield etc are looking like some more QBs on rookie contracts that are heading towards the playoffs too.

Look if you're gonna pay the QB a f**k ton of money he better be damn good! Because there's only so much cash to go around...you think Jimmy is some amazing QB, I think he's a serviceable starter who's being paid too much cash when we need that cash to maintain the overall roster/upgrade.

I have faith in our coaching staff/scouts to find a good young QB....in a ideal world Jimmy would be that bridge QB. Pre-Covid that was probably a realistic scenario.

Too each their own man.

lol not being stubborn you brought up the whole rookie contract thing like it was the secret sauce to SB wins.

I just pointed out that's not the case or you'd see a lot more young QBs winning SBs.

Out of the last 10 years only 3 guys fit the bill of what you describe and two of them are arguably the two best QBs playing the game right now. So was it their small contract that was the formula or was it their ability? Mahomes it was certainly his ability. Wilson is a toss up. The SB they won his defense outscored Denver but if I recall correctly it was also before their key guys got paid big time.

I understand your point. If we can find a young QB who is better than Jimmy it would be terrific. We know we have some heavy hitters who will need to get paid and we have guys we have to retain or wait out some of these bad contracts while trying to stay afloat. A good QB on a rookie deal would certainly do that.

But my point the whole time has been be careful what you wish for. No guarantee the young guy ends up being better than Jimmy. I understand you want to get rid of Jimmy's contract because you think he's not playing up to it but going to an unknown doesn't always guarantee the success KC or Seattle saw.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens and hope whatever move the 49ers make will not haunt us.

The Chargers say hi! Great defense really good to great offensive weapons and a hot shot rookie QB. Oh and they can't win a game to save their lives.

I'm not counting JG out. He reminds me of Rich Gannon.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
Your clips aren't helping you at all.

Giants trash team.
Chargers pre- season scout defense.
Packers bring the house and miss therefore the Red Sea splits open, lucky.
There are no top defenses in the Big Ten West

Guy has one lucky play. He's immobile and gets blasted against first string defenses therefore he stays on the bench even behind a crap QB like Mullens like you said. But by all means carry on bro!

OMG lol who cares if they're trash teams or in the pre-season...mobile is mobile. So if Rivers is playing against a trash team in the pre-season he's running for a 60+ yard TD?

I'm not calling him Kap, I'm saying he isn't an immobile QB (he's probably the most athletic QB we have which isn't saying much). He get's blasted in the pocket because he can't process the field quick enough, his "internal clock" is awful. He simply holds onto the ball too long. That doesn't make him immobile.

Ultimately who cares...it's Beathard

LOL of course it matters because Rivers and Brady who are stop signs at an intersection would never face the scout team. But what do you think that they can't run for a first down or score on a roll out against guys that are bagging groceries immediately after those games. Guy runs straight up an open sea (which even Rivers and Brady have done and against first team defenses by the way) and he is mobile according to your clips.

Fact is the guy holds onto the ball too long and when he faces a first string defense he gets blasted because that mobility that you think he has is invisible.

We agree here though who cares guy is bad enough to not even discuss anymore.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I'm not counting JG out. He reminds me of Rich Gannon.

Or maybe Trent Green

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
Best bet right now would be for Garoppolo to take a pay cut and cross our fingers he doesn't break again.

The next best option is to get a cheap veteran that can be a field manager while we hope a rookie can develop.

Don't bank on a top rookie QB via the draft.

Yeah, I keep seeing that and that's not going to happen.

...because other teams are just itching and clawing at the chance to pay him just as much?

If he closes the season with a bang,...then I'll humor this. But as things stand now,...Can anyone spell out his options at this point?

No, not that they are. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. Hypothetically speaking that would be the best option right now but it's going to be nearly impossible to get him to do it.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RasSuar:

You could say Kyle took a very meh QB and made him look better with short passing and a strong running game that protected and hid his weaknesses.

You could say that, but it would be dead wrong. If it were so easy to take a meh QB and pump them up in this offense with this line then Mullens would be lighting s**t up. But, alas, he did not.

Where's the, "Did we just become best friends? Yup!" meme?

You could say that Garoppolo looked incredible, when he was playing naturally, with more confidence, and literally NO talent around him in 2017.

You could say that Shanahan actually continued to make him look worse, question his own ability, and broke him by overloading him with a playbook and a coaching ego that eradicated what made Garoppolo look so damn good...playing loose and getting a feel for the game.

Shanahan can scheme guys open but I can't seem to see where he's made a QB look better and truly groomed them and built them up vs almost getting in a pissing contest with them that shatters their confidence.

He's made 90% of the QBs he coached a lot better

Who?

He hasn't done anything with any QB here except garoppolo, including a guy like Beathard who he took in the third friggin round.

Who?.. Do you not know Shanny before he was our HC ? Shanny has done a lot for the 49ers if you haven't noticed.

Every QB is a crapshoot, the odds get worse after the first round. Sorry you expected Beathard to be a HOF'r

You never answered my question about which QBs he specifically groomed and made better. And don't say Kirk cousins, he sucks.

I just told you. Every starting QB that he has ever coached.

As for Cousins, well guess who made his name known and why does he suck now ?

I don't understand why you refuse to name the QB's and Cousins has always sucked. He's put up stats but has consistently been a loser, whether he's had talent around him or not.

Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels?
Donovan Mcnabb, RGIII, and Kirk cousins in Washington?
Brian Hoyer in Cleveland...who stunk there and then was proceeded to be brought in to start for SF?
Matt Ryan...was already a top QB and pro bowler before Shanahan's arrival

I'm not completely taking away Shanhan's QB acumen, but I don't see him as someone who grooms a QB and develops them into a better player. I see him as being able to scheme to help those QBs and compensate for their shortcomings, while designing plays that play to their strengths, but not necessarily having the coaching ability to help them improve on their shortcomings.

It's all about his offense and his scheme. That's fine. But the search for his perfect QB is going to be a futile one. And the amount of pressure he puts on these QBs doesn't seem to galvanize them, it seems to weigh them down.

I would have loved to have seen him improve on what Garoppolo lacks vs just compensating for it and handcuffing him where he can. That's all.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RasSuar:

You could say Kyle took a very meh QB and made him look better with short passing and a strong running game that protected and hid his weaknesses.

You could say that, but it would be dead wrong. If it were so easy to take a meh QB and pump them up in this offense with this line then Mullens would be lighting s**t up. But, alas, he did not.

Where's the, "Did we just become best friends? Yup!" meme?

You could say that Garoppolo looked incredible, when he was playing naturally, with more confidence, and literally NO talent around him in 2017.

You could say that Shanahan actually continued to make him look worse, question his own ability, and broke him by overloading him with a playbook and a coaching ego that eradicated what made Garoppolo look so damn good...playing loose and getting a feel for the game.

Shanahan can scheme guys open but I can't seem to see where he's made a QB look better and truly groomed them and built them up vs almost getting in a pissing contest with them that shatters their confidence.

He's made 90% of the QBs he coached a lot better

Who?

He hasn't done anything with any QB here except garoppolo, including a guy like Beathard who he took in the third friggin round.

Who?.. Do you not know Shanny before he was our HC ? Shanny has done a lot for the 49ers if you haven't noticed.

Every QB is a crapshoot, the odds get worse after the first round. Sorry you expected Beathard to be a HOF'r

You never answered my question about which QBs he specifically groomed and made better. And don't say Kirk cousins, he sucks.

I just told you. Every starting QB that he has ever coached.

As for Cousins, well guess who made his name known and why does he suck now ?

I don't understand why you refuse to name the QB's and Cousins has always sucked. He's put up stats but has consistently been a loser, whether he's had talent around him or not.

Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels?
Donovan Mcnabb, RGIII, and Kirk cousins in Washington?
Brian Hoyer in Cleveland...who stunk there and then was proceeded to be brought in to start for SF?
Matt Ryan...was already a top QB and pro bowler before Shanahan's arrival

I'm not completely taking away Shanhan's QB acumen, but I don't see him as someone who grooms a QB and develops them into a better player. I see him as being able to scheme to help those QBs and compensate for their shortcomings, while designing plays that play to their strengths, but not necessarily having the coaching ability to help them improve on their shortcomings.

It's all about his offense and his scheme. That's fine. But the search for his perfect QB is going to be a futile one. And the amount of pressure he puts on these QBs doesn't seem to galvanize them, it seems to weigh them down.

I would have loved to have seen him improve on what Garoppolo lacks vs just compensating for it and handcuffing him where he can. That's all.

I don't need to name any QB as i said every Starting QB. if you don't know where or who he coached then this convo is pointless, but glad you finally looked at the data. What you missed from those QBs listed. Every QB had thier best years under Kyle, including Matt Ryan. Cousins has always sucked? you don't get franchised taged, then be the top free agent and be the first to get a fully guaranteed contract for sucking. But today's Cousins without Kyle is what you really get. With all the injuries this year we will never know what Jimmy could have done.

but the reality is It's not all on Kyle, the QB needs to step up also.