Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by random49er:

So Kyle previously said he wouldn't bring Garoppolo back for meaningless games. How would you interpret that, given the cap hit Jimmy would have next season as it stands?

An interesting, comparative snippet:

The NFC West is home to three apparently indestructible starting quarterbacks.

And Jimmy Garoppolo.

The 49ers' QB, on injured reserve for the second time in three seasons, sticks out in a division in which his peers have not been sidelined.

Seattle's Russell Wilson hasn't missed a game in his 138-start career, the Rams' Jared Goff hasn't missed a game because of injury in his 64-start career and, though Arizona's Kyler Murray is just getting started, he has opened his career by making 26 straight starts.

The contrast with Garoppolo, who has suffered three significant injuries in his 32-start career, highlights a less-discussed aspect of the 49ers' much-discussed future decision on their QB.

That is, even if Garoppolo was a first-team All-Pro, the 49ers would need to significantly upgrade their backup spot in 2021 based on his inability to stay healthy.

Have all 3 simply been lucky?

LOL @ "inability" to stay healthy. LB lands on his shoulder in NE, his ACL tears from slipping on terrible turf in KC, and he gets hit two different times for high ankle sprains in 2020. These are bad luck injuries, not chronically hurt injuries. Hes not constantly breaking bones or tearing his hamstring on a non contact play.

In the NFL there are no "iron man" players. Just guys who get lucky. Russell Wilson could get his leg snapped in half next week. Or he could play the rest of his entire career without missing another start. Every player is one play away from the last of their career.

The real shame is that Garoppolo changed after he slipped on the turf in KC. He became more mindful of getting hit. More protective of that knee. The high ankle sprains this year aren't going to help either. He probably used to give his vulnerability zero thought during the play. Now its in the back of his head, trying to get his feet un planted asap before he can get hit. You could see in that Seahawks game he was jumping up and turning away from hits to protect his legs.

We need to shore up the OL to get his confidence in the pocket back.

It's what fans do when they turn on a player for whatever reason. They did it to Jimmie Ward - even me.

Sometimes it is bad luck. Jimmie Ward is a good example of that. He was injured ALL. THE. TIME. for years and then the last 2 years I think he's played more snaps than anyone but Fred Warner and just had a monster of a game and Sherman keeps calling him one of the top 3 safeties in the league.

even you?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

I wonder what Alex's ALEX is in 2020. or is ALEX Alex's ALEX?

-4

why do you think they call it the ALEX score LOL...it's named after our boy Smith who's the dump off king and great at converting on 3rd downs.

except alex was NOT great or even close at converting 3rd downs as a niner.


NFCC giants game still comes to mind.. awful awful

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I understand the cash handed out - if anything, that proves my point. What that quote from the article is talking about is converting salaries to bonuses to spread the cap hit out by spending cash up front. So, he's saying that will be a tougher option. This goes along with what I showed as the only potential way for the Chiefs to get under the cap next year without creating more free agents was to do this and it would barely help them, cause them to shell out all the money in Feb-Mar and then give them huge cap hits down the road.

I also understand things are getting leaner, so, again, it's a good faith gesture in the sense that the owners are giving first. They're going above the 47% cap mark(it was projecting at possibly being 135 mil as a salary cap based off that calculation of revenues) to show players they're giving a good bit, now they're going to expect the players to do the same. If not, you're going to see a major market reset.

Why would the Vikings pay Danielle Hunter 12.1 mil in base salary if they can go sign Melvin Ingram, Shaquille Barrett, Ryan Kerrigan or Aldon Smith for 900k-1 mil? If Melvin Ingram is only getting a 6 mil a year contract because no one has cap space, how can Von Miller, Brandon Graham, Chandler Jones, JPP, Bradley Chubb(they're all going into their last year in 2021), or others demand 19-20 mil/year for an extension? They can't. So, it would completely destroy the market for years.

You would have teams trying to dump player contracts in bulk for a market reset to save room for years. This wouldn't be good for the players union any more than it would be for the NFL.

This is why I come back to the NFLPA agreeing to an across the board pay-cut. What you do is cut ALL salaries 5-7% - that would be about 8-10 mil per team, on average. You clause it into ALL contracts. That way, you maintain the market values. So, if, for example, Melvin Ingram signs a 4 year, 60 mil contract, it costs 14.25 year 1, not 15(at a 5% reduction). You maintain a market value on the contract but factor in a COVID year and reduce the salary.

Right some teams don't have the financials (real cash) to spend money up front, especially with a lack of money flow going into their bank accounts this yr.

The owners wanted to lower the cap a s**t ton in 2020/2021 (tank it now) while the NFLA wanted to spread it out thru 2030...in the end the met in the middle. I wouldn't call that a good faith from the owners, just negations.

Most media/analysts/cap gurus are expecting it to be around $180-$185M. I see no reason why that would be any different.

Players will get smaller short-term deals in hopes of cashing in again. Older vets will be cut and have to take less. Players on rookie contracts will be much more valuable etc etc...

Is what it is, the NFL like everything else will have to adapt for the time being.

*FWIW I do like you cut all salaries 5%-7% across the board. I highly doubt the NFLPA would agree to such a move though.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
except alex was NOT great or even close at converting 3rd downs as a niner.

NFCC giants game still comes to mind.. awful awful

I mean I'm talking about his time in KC. I'm not a Alex truther by any means

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by random49er:
So Kyle previously said he wouldn't bring Garoppolo back for meaningless games. How would you interpret that, given the cap hit Jimmy would have next season as it stands?

An interesting, comparative snippet:

The NFC West is home to three apparently indestructible starting quarterbacks.

And Jimmy Garoppolo.

The 49ers' QB, on injured reserve for the second time in three seasons, sticks out in a division in which his peers have not been sidelined.

Seattle's Russell Wilson hasn't missed a game in his 138-start career, the Rams' Jared Goff hasn't missed a game because of injury in his 64-start career and, though Arizona's Kyler Murray is just getting started, he has opened his career by making 26 straight starts.

The contrast with Garoppolo, who has suffered three significant injuries in his 32-start career, highlights a less-discussed aspect of the 49ers' much-discussed future decision on their QB.

That is, even if Garoppolo was a first-team All-Pro, the 49ers would need to significantly upgrade their backup spot in 2021 based on his inability to stay healthy.

Have all 3 simply been lucky?

LOL @ "inability" to stay healthy. LB lands on his shoulder in NE, his ACL tears from slipping on terrible turf in KC, and he gets hit two different times for high ankle sprains in 2020. These are bad luck injuries, not chronically hurt injuries. Hes not constantly breaking bones or tearing his hamstring on a non contact play.

In the NFL there are no "iron man" players. Just guys who get lucky. Russell Wilson could get his leg snapped in half next week. Or he could play the rest of his entire career without missing another start. Every player is one play away from the last of their career.

The real shame is that Garoppolo changed after he slipped on the turf in KC. He became more mindful of getting hit. More protective of that knee. The high ankle sprains this year aren't going to help either. He probably used to give his vulnerability zero thought during the play. Now its in the back of his head, trying to get his feet un planted asap before he can get hit. You could see in that Seahawks game he was jumping up and turning away from hits to protect his legs.

We need to shore up the OL to get his confidence in the pocket back.

It's what fans do when they turn on a player for whatever reason. They did it to Jimmie Ward - even me.

Sometimes it is bad luck. Jimmie Ward is a good example of that. He was injured ALL. THE. TIME. for years and then the last 2 years I think he's played more snaps than anyone but Fred Warner and just had a monster of a game and Sherman keeps calling him one of the top 3 safeties in the league.

Agreed - both 99 and jonnydel. Sometimes it's definitely just bad luck. Sometimes it's good luck - Mahomes just missed having a severe season-ending knee injury himself last year (remember that game?). Turns out he missed only two games.

Some QBs last year who missed games: Brees (missed 5), Tannehill (missed 4), Stafford (missed 8). Garoppolo started all 19 games last season and didn't come out once for injury. Some might want to just discount that as some kind of outlier. I don't agree, and I hope to see him back in action this year if/when he's 100%.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
except alex was NOT great or even close at converting 3rd downs as a niner.

NFCC giants game still comes to mind.. awful awful

I mean I'm talking about his time in KC. I'm not a Alex truther by any means

that's fine. his 2017 season was really good. but when he was a 49er as ive said, 3rd down and like anywhere from 7~11 yards felt damn near impossible to convert with him and guys like Kap at the time.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

I wonder what Alex's ALEX is in 2020. or is ALEX Alex's ALEX?

-4

why do you think they call it the ALEX score LOL...it's named after our boy Smith who's the dump off king and great at converting on 3rd downs.

except alex was NOT great or even close at converting 3rd downs as a niner.

There is no "except." this stat was attributed to him far, far after his time with the 49ers.

No one here is suggesting he was good or great with the 49ers. He went elsewhere, grew, and was utilized much more effectively.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
that's fine. his 2017 season was really good. but when he was a 49er as ive said, 3rd down and like anywhere from 7~11 yards felt damn near impossible to convert with him and guys like Kap at the time.

agreed......we didn't have the YAC guys to get it done

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
I wonder what Alex's ALEX is in 2020. or is ALEX Alex's ALEX?

-4

why do you think they call it the ALEX score LOL...it's named after our boy Smith who's the dump off king and great at converting on 3rd downs.

except alex was NOT great or even close at converting 3rd downs as a niner.

There is no "except." this stat was attributed to him far, far after his time with the 49ers.

No one here is suggesting he was good or great with the 49ers. He went elsewhere, grew, and was utilized much more effectively.

and im choosing to use it in context for when he was here. and when he was here, he was garbage in that area for us like may other QB's.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
that's fine. his 2017 season was really good. but when he was a 49er as ive said, 3rd down and like anywhere from 7~11 yards felt damn near impossible to convert with him and guys like Kap at the time.

agreed......we didn't have the YAC guys to get it done

no we didnt have the QB to pull the trigger more often than not.

Dunno.... 3 Pro Bowls since he's left here?. .. I think it's pretty clear he's moved on from his days here and has cemented himself as a Chief. People will always refer to his time there, not here or in Washington.

Now if Jimmy could just stay healthy enough to get that 1st Pro Bowl selection, that's be awesome.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
no we didnt have the QB to pull the trigger more often than not.

Man if only Alex had Kittle/Deebo and he could just dumped it 4 yards and watch them run guys over.

At least Jimmy has enough internal clock in him to get rid of the ball when he's suppose too...Alex looking all day to throw the ball, acting like he was gonna take a shot downfield.... we all knew lol. He didn't turn the ball over a ton with those short passes though.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I understand the cash handed out - if anything, that proves my point. What that quote from the article is talking about is converting salaries to bonuses to spread the cap hit out by spending cash up front. So, he's saying that will be a tougher option. This goes along with what I showed as the only potential way for the Chiefs to get under the cap next year without creating more free agents was to do this and it would barely help them, cause them to shell out all the money in Feb-Mar and then give them huge cap hits down the road.

I also understand things are getting leaner, so, again, it's a good faith gesture in the sense that the owners are giving first. They're going above the 47% cap mark(it was projecting at possibly being 135 mil as a salary cap based off that calculation of revenues) to show players they're giving a good bit, now they're going to expect the players to do the same. If not, you're going to see a major market reset.

Why would the Vikings pay Danielle Hunter 12.1 mil in base salary if they can go sign Melvin Ingram, Shaquille Barrett, Ryan Kerrigan or Aldon Smith for 900k-1 mil? If Melvin Ingram is only getting a 6 mil a year contract because no one has cap space, how can Von Miller, Brandon Graham, Chandler Jones, JPP, Bradley Chubb(they're all going into their last year in 2021), or others demand 19-20 mil/year for an extension? They can't. So, it would completely destroy the market for years.

You would have teams trying to dump player contracts in bulk for a market reset to save room for years. This wouldn't be good for the players union any more than it would be for the NFL.

This is why I come back to the NFLPA agreeing to an across the board pay-cut. What you do is cut ALL salaries 5-7% - that would be about 8-10 mil per team, on average. You clause it into ALL contracts. That way, you maintain the market values. So, if, for example, Melvin Ingram signs a 4 year, 60 mil contract, it costs 14.25 year 1, not 15(at a 5% reduction). You maintain a market value on the contract but factor in a COVID year and reduce the salary.

Right some teams don't have the financials (real cash) to spend money up front, especially with a lack of money flow going into their bank accounts this yr.

The owners wanted to lower the cap a s**t ton in 2020/2021 (tank it now) while the NFLA wanted to spread it out thru 2030...in the end the met in the middle. I wouldn't call that a good faith from the owners, just negations.

Most media/analysts/cap gurus are expecting it to be around $180-$185M. I see no reason why that would be any different.

Players will get smaller short-term deals in hopes of cashing in again. Older vets will be cut and have to take less. Players on rookie contracts will be much more valuable etc etc...

Is what it is, the NFL like everything else will have to adapt for the time being.

*FWIW I do like you cut all salaries 5%-7% across the board. I highly doubt the NFLPA would agree to such a move though.

Why not? If they don't, half their union will lose a crap ton of money. They literally don't hold any of the bargaining power here, this is why the NFL was trying to low-ball them, then agreed to a floor. Yes, it's part of negotiations but is also a good-faith movement. Not sure why you seem cynical towards it. The owners couldn't agree to a cap above 47% without approval from the NFLPA. But, the owners have the power right now, more than they've had in decades, because player contracts are what will be hit hardest and the NFLPA's push for % of revenues is what created this problem(not saying they shouldn't have, that's just the reality of a revenue based salary cap). Both parties weren't planning on COVID wrecking revenues. It can't be one sided or even half the players in a "well, we have our contracts and screw the rest of you" stance. If there isn't some sort of move from both players and owners to create more cap space, you're going to end up with at least half the players in the union unemployed come the start of the new league year.

You're telling me that if 500 players of a union are unemployed and staring at minimum contracts for every single one that the NFLPA is going to be ok with that? Like I mentioned earlier today, on 2nd year minimum contracts the league still couldn't fill all the roster spots that will be open in the league - which they can't even do because of the CBA's rookie wage scale.

My point through all of this is, we can't assume we'll be in cap hell because of Jimmy G's contract and it's why we need to move on from him. We're 17th in cap space next season and, like I've pointed out, the league as a whole is in a terrible position with current contracts and the cap. So, we can't sit here and say, "we have to move on from Jimmy G because we don't have x, y and z signed and we won't be able to extend Warner".

You yourself are saying that nearly everyone would have to accept minimum contracts if the cap isn't adjusted, so why are we worried if we could afford guys if everyone's going to have to sign minimum contracts.

We have to have logical harmony.

Either our high value FA's are going to cost a lot of money and the cap is going to adjusted by either % cuts by the players union or the market will crash and contracts will be dirt cheap. Either way, there's no reason why we move on from Jimmy for cap reasons.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Agreed - both 99 and jonnydel. Sometimes it's definitely just bad luck. Sometimes it's good luck - Mahomes just missed having a severe season-ending knee injury himself last year (remember that game?). Turns out he missed only two games.

Some QBs last year who missed games: Brees (missed 5), Tannehill (missed 4), Stafford (missed 8). Garoppolo started all 19 games last season and didn't come out once for injury. Some might want to just discount that as some kind of outlier. I don't agree, and I hope to see him back in action this year if/when he's 100%.

I think that's what people are questioning. In seven NFL seasons he has had 3 where he missed 5 or more games. So the question is, was the 2019 season the fluke because he played in all the games or were the other seasons where he missed a lot the norm. You can actually throw out the injury in NE since he wasn't the regular starter so just look at his time here. Out of 51 games he's missed all or part of 21. That's about 40%. The sample size is still relatively small but the trend certainly doesn't look good.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by random49er:
So Kyle previously said he wouldn't bring Garoppolo back for meaningless games. How would you interpret that, given the cap hit Jimmy would have next season as it stands?

An interesting, comparative snippet:

The NFC West is home to three apparently indestructible starting quarterbacks.

And Jimmy Garoppolo.

The 49ers' QB, on injured reserve for the second time in three seasons, sticks out in a division in which his peers have not been sidelined.

Seattle's Russell Wilson hasn't missed a game in his 138-start career, the Rams' Jared Goff hasn't missed a game because of injury in his 64-start career and, though Arizona's Kyler Murray is just getting started, he has opened his career by making 26 straight starts.

The contrast with Garoppolo, who has suffered three significant injuries in his 32-start career, highlights a less-discussed aspect of the 49ers' much-discussed future decision on their QB.

That is, even if Garoppolo was a first-team All-Pro, the 49ers would need to significantly upgrade their backup spot in 2021 based on his inability to stay healthy.

Have all 3 simply been lucky?

LOL @ "inability" to stay healthy. LB lands on his shoulder in NE, his ACL tears from slipping on terrible turf in KC, and he gets hit two different times for high ankle sprains in 2020. These are bad luck injuries, not chronically hurt injuries. Hes not constantly breaking bones or tearing his hamstring on a non contact play.

In the NFL there are no "iron man" players. Just guys who get lucky. Russell Wilson could get his leg snapped in half next week. Or he could play the rest of his entire career without missing another start. Every player is one play away from the last of their career.

The real shame is that Garoppolo changed after he slipped on the turf in KC. He became more mindful of getting hit. More protective of that knee. The high ankle sprains this year aren't going to help either. He probably used to give his vulnerability zero thought during the play. Now its in the back of his head, trying to get his feet un planted asap before he can get hit. You could see in that Seahawks game he was jumping up and turning away from hits to protect his legs.

We need to shore up the OL to get his confidence in the pocket back.

It's what fans do when they turn on a player for whatever reason. They did it to Jimmie Ward - even me.

Sometimes it is bad luck. Jimmie Ward is a good example of that. He was injured ALL. THE. TIME. for years and then the last 2 years I think he's played more snaps than anyone but Fred Warner and just had a monster of a game and Sherman keeps calling him one of the top 3 safeties in the league.

even you?

yup, even me. I got so mad when Lynch resigned Ward in 2019 and then he broke his collarbone in OTA's.