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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Goff has had the same #1 WR fully healthy for 3 straight seasons and 4 seasons together total. That helps a bit.
who's his #1 WR? a slot WR with one yr of 1K yards and one season with double-digit TDs? He's got two good WRs no doubt. IMO the scheme helps everyone on that team just like in SF.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
I consider Woods the #1 WR since he has led the team in targets every season since he arrived.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
I consider Woods the #1 WR since he has led the team in targets every season since he arrived.
Woods is a fine possession WR. I'm not gonna call him anything special though. I feel like scheme has greatly helped both those guys. Woods is also on the field more due to personnel groups.
Dude has 9 total TDs the past two years...killed me in fantasy
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Nah dude your arguments are not only flawed but completely biased. Listing your opinions and trying to pass them off as facts while at the same time trying to equate Jimmy to Goff is laughable. Saying Goff has had injuries just the same???? Flat out lie. Sorry you just can't admit that your argument is horrible and you're assuming and extrapolating turnovers instead of just admitting that Goff was the worst quarterback the last two years at turning the ball over. Done! You cannot assume he would have turnovers at that same rate especially with a healthier team and a better team at that going forward. That is just absolutely ridiculous. Nobody last year said baker Mayfield or Tom Brady would have the same season they had in 2019 as they did in 2020 and neither did. Such a bad argument. You cannot assume the turnovers would stay the same because there are too many variables like the teams they play against or the game flow for their team getting healthy or getting better players the following year or the following games. Unbelievable.
It's not hard to admit it. It's OK to live in denial but to go this far and not admit it is very stubborn imo. I know you've been called out by many people here and it seems the more and more you press on this issue the more biased you look. You're trying to push your agenda which is fine because nobody's saying Jimmy is great but nobody's also saying he is horrible. Horrible like Jared Goff has been turning the ball over and costing his team dearly.
The fact that you are even implying and defending such a weak and flawed argument saying Goff has dealt with even close to the same injuries as Jimmy as well as the overall team health is a straight up fabrication. The Rams have IN FACT been way healthier in the past couple years than the 49ers. Just admit it man. It's not that hard, the whole world knows it, the Rams have been one of the healthiest teams and the Niners haven't. That affected Jimmy Garoppolo a lot more than Jared Goff however Goff has done worse with a much better and healthier team around him. Admit that. The niners haven't been able to field their talent due to the myriad of injuries which does in fact effect performance.
Also, we have seen that after Jimmy turns the ball over he becomes very surgical and super efficient. Something Jared Goff has rarely ever done. He collapses, he buckles under pressure and was a laughing stock with his coach throwing him under the bus which was very deserving. Can you at least admit that?
Dude you're cherry picking a stat and literally disregarding the structure of how that data comes about. I can't take the TO thing serious when you can't even accept how the data comes about & not even looking at INT % which does factor passing attempts. When Jimmy has ONE full season of data and was fumbling the ball all over the place that's just as much a problem. When he's throwing INTs at a HIGHER rate (his whole career) all while being bottom of the league in passing attempts and one of the lowest air yard numbers in the freaking league, that's a f**king issue dude! There should be no excuse or BS straw man argument about that, It's a problem plain and simple.
Has Goff not lost a MVP caliber RB? Did he not lose his #1 WR to an ACL? Who the hell was his TEs? At one point in 2019 every single offensive linemen was hurt
The 'next' for the LA Rams was the 2019 performance of a badly outgunned, battered, and bruised offensive line. In 2019, the Rams offensive line fell off a cliff, landing as the 31st-ranked offensive line in the NFL. Injuries decimated the ranks, with all five starters getting either bench time due to injury, or getting post-season surgery to clean up nagging ailments. Some players even faced both. That plunge from greatness to anonymity did not sit well with the players but was not easily forgotten by the fans
They also lost their starting center in Josh Sullivan AND their stud LG in Rodger Saffold (got paid to play for Titans). Look if you just don't pay attention to other teams and what they deal with too, just say that. Would make way more sense.
You're making it way too personal and looking at it as a 49er fan. You grab one meaningless stat and totally disregard how that data comes about and poo poo something like INT % if you can't agree that a QB that lead the league in passing attempts MIGHT have more total TOs then a guy that was bottom of the league in passing attempts, well then this convo is done.
It's a pointless debate, you either think they're similar QBs that have similar skill sets and have been put in similar situations OR you don't...throwing out some bogus thing like fumbles to backup a take is weak at most.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
A good possession WR helps a QB a great deal. The point is that Goff has had him to rely on pretty much his entire career, as well as Cupp.
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Are you new here?
Imo, Goff and Jimmy are pretty similar when it comes to their QB ability. Both different talents though. Goff has the arm to challenge down field and is more athletic. Jimmy is more consistent with his accuracy, at least short/medium. But both have below average pocket awareness as well.
Neither are long term starters in this league. Goff has something that has plagued a lot of talented QBs in this league and that's consistency. He will make one great throw, then the next play throw it in the dirt when a guy is wide open 10 feet in front of him. Combine that with meh pocket awareness, and it's not a recipe for success.
But if I had to play one QB, it would probably be Jimmy.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
A good possession WR helps a QB a great deal. The point is that Goff has had him to rely on pretty much his entire career, as well as Cupp.
In Jimmy's one full season he had Kittle/deebo/KB/sanders in some capacity. He had a top run game & D. People act like Jimmy had poo around him and that's simply not true.
I would said McVay has helped Goff WAY MORE then Robert woods lol. Let's stop acting like Woods is some top end WR here.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
I'm not saying he is a top end WR. I'm saying that he is a starting caliber NFL WR who he has had in the lineup for 60 out of 64 games. That consistency matters. Jimmy has had a different set of starting WRs seemingly almost every game.
Goff also has had very good running games and mostly solid defenses.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
I'm not saying he is a top end WR. I'm saying that he is a starting caliber NFL WR who he has had in the lineup for 60 out of 64 games. That consistency matters. Jimmy has had a different set of starting WRs seemingly almost every game.
Goff also has had very good running games and mostly solid defenses.
the semantics over the impact of woods is meh imo
Neither were put on bad rosters with bad coaching..which is my point.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
2017: 5 starts with Louis Murphy and Marquise Goodwin and Celek at TE (Kittle played 40% or fewer OFF snaps in 3 games, and no more than 56% over the final two games).
2018: 3 starts
Goodwin/Garcon for 1st and 3rd
Pettis/Garcon for 2nd.
2019: 16 starts
Goodwin/Deebo for 1st and 2nd
Goodwin/Pettis for 3rd through 6th
Deebo/Sanders for 7th through 16th
2020: 6 starts
Pettis/Bourne for 1st
Aiyuk/Bourne for 2nd
Aiyuk/Deebo for 3rd through 5th
Aiyuk/Bourne for 6th
Hard to be better than average with a revolving door of WRs. That's all I'm saying when comparing him to Goff.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
But consider that Goff has had Woods for all but 3 games since 2017 and the only consistent WR that Jimmy has had is Bourne. haha
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
2017: 5 starts with Louis Murphy and Marquise Goodwin and Celek at TE (Kittle played 40% or fewer OFF snaps in 3 games, and no more than 56% over the final two games).
2018: 3 starts
Goodwin/Garcon for 1st and 3rd
Pettis/Garcon for 2nd.
2019: 16 starts
Goodwin/Deebo for 1st and 2nd
Goodwin/Pettis for 3rd through 6th
Deebo/Sanders for 7th through 16th
2020: 6 starts
Pettis/Bourne for 1st
Aiyuk/Bourne for 2nd
Aiyuk/Deebo for 3rd through 5th
Aiyuk/Bourne for 6th
Hard to be better than average with a revolving door of WRs. That's all I'm saying when comparing him to Goff.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
But consider that Goff has had Woods for all but 3 games since 2017 and the only consistent WR that Jimmy has had is Bourne. haha
Maybe woods isn't that great and just put on a offense that can manufacture yards for WRs. Not like he was amazing in Buffalo.
maybe KB throws up more yards up in LA where they ask the QB to throw the ball 500-600x s yr.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
2017: 5 starts with Louis Murphy and Marquise Goodwin and Celek at TE (Kittle played 40% or fewer OFF snaps in 3 games, and no more than 56% over the final two games).
2018: 3 starts
Goodwin/Garcon for 1st and 3rd
Pettis/Garcon for 2nd.
2019: 16 starts
Goodwin/Deebo for 1st and 2nd
Goodwin/Pettis for 3rd through 6th
Deebo/Sanders for 7th through 16th
2020: 6 starts
Pettis/Bourne for 1st
Aiyuk/Bourne for 2nd
Aiyuk/Deebo for 3rd through 5th
Aiyuk/Bourne for 6th
Hard to be better than average with a revolving door of WRs. That's all I'm saying when comparing him to Goff.
2017 and 2018 are irrelevant in terms of this debate. Guapo set the time frame at the last two years, and that's what we were discussing.
I find it convenient that you never typed the word Kittle, who for all intents and purposes is our #1 weapon.
Oh yeah.......Kittle > Woods