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Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

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Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

Cossell is wrong.


If he's even he's leaving, and he's well past even here...
.

Regarding the coverage:

Does Cossell mean the post-snap coverage? In that case, the linebacker near the line is immediately bailing to the flat — toward the passing lane for a hitch. Such a LB may not in time, but it still requires a dart. Can a good QB make this throw closer to the sideline? Sure. Is it an easy catch? No. What would a GREAT QB do? Recognize the safety is cheating, moving himself too far to stop Sanu, and realize Sanu would have thus been at worst 1 on 1 with a LB or SS, and eliminated Deebo from the progression pre-snap, and thrown the touchdown to Sanu.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah, it's possible the safety could go back. But he wasn't going to go back in time to stop that route.

Two reasons: (1) Because the better matchup is Sanu on a linebacker or strong safety. That FS was not going to get over fast enough to stop that little skinny post, which was on its break 1.25 seconds after the snap, indicating it's Sanu vs a LB or SS. (2) Because immediately after the snap, the linebacker on the left edge drifted into the flat.

You would still assume it was cover 1 or cover 3. It's still a single high look. The person who blew the coverage, by the way, WAS the safety who was cheating over. That was a ZONE coverage, not cover 1, as evidenced by the linebacker on the left side who showed blitz and then immediately bailed into the flat post-snap — which is one more reason Jimmy should have thrown it to Sanu — and the middle linebacker who also bailed into zone coverage.

If they are "switching to man coverage on the other side," whatever you mean by that, it's Sanu vs a linebacker or strong safety (and either way this is the case). That's a win 10 out of 10 times.

And it wasn't man, and Jimmy would have known IMMEDIATELY after the snap, because the linebacker on the left edge AND the middle linebacker on the line immediately bailed after the snap, the former drifting to the flat and the latter playing the middle. Given what he already knew about the single high look, this would have confirmed cover 3 AND that the middle was wide open (because the free safety had already moved four or five yards left of the left hash).

.
.

You can deny it all you want here. But deep down inside you know that Tom Brady throws that to Sanu for 6.

Not sure if you saw my conversation with Jonny about this play a few pages back, but according to him it was a Cover 1 man. He said that play design was a one read only to Deebo.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I've never been a Jimmy G. hater, but I really think he just isn't the QB for this team anymore. If Lance is healthy he needs to be the starter from here on out. We're 2 -4, in the toughest division no less, and 12 games left with an injury-prone QB. I've totally resigned myself to the fact that we're NOT making the playoffs. We traded away 3 1st's for Lance. I understand this whole "not ready" mindset regarding Lance. But when you mortgage significant future to draft a QB #3 overall (behind said injury prone QB) he can't be THAT "not ready" to take over a 2 - 4 team with hollow playoff chances. If he's THAT "not ready" then the future should have never been mortgaged to draft him in the first place, and shame on Shanny for doing so.

Nothing personal to Jimmy G. but we've realized is ceiling. The regression before our eyes is just blinding. It was a mistake to not take that 2nd round offer for him. Now, as the trade deadline looms, his trade value will drastically reduce if he starts against the Bears and looks like he's looked.

So, the sooner we go with Lance the better. Let's just get him in there, live with the inevitable rookie mistakes, let him learn on the job (as they say he has a very high IQ), and move on.

IMHO

Why do people keep saying that they are out of the playoffs? They are only one game back for the wildcard spot. Granted they are not playing up to expectations but they are not out of playoffs contention yet.

Ok. Fare enough. Here's the last 11 games.

@ Bears
Cardinals
Rams
@Jaguars
Vikings
@Seahawks
@Bengals
Falcons
@Titans
Texans
@Rams

What's your path to the PO? I don't see us getting more than 5 wins - Bears (we better, or imma have a hard week here in Chicago), Seaducks (maybe), Texans, Jaguars, Rams (only because by that time they're likely starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers).

Before the season started I had this team in the SB. Now, I cannot see us winning more than 7 games. So walk me through how this team get's to the PO.

I get it this team is under performing but to get to the playoffs they have to be one game better than at this time New Orleans and Minnesota. The rams and cards are going to control the first wildcard and there will be two other spots available. The rest of the nfc is flailing around just like the Niners. What ever team can win 7-8 games from here on out is probably going to earn the third spot.
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I've never been a Jimmy G. hater, but I really think he just isn't the QB for this team anymore. If Lance is healthy he needs to be the starter from here on out. We're 2 -4, in the toughest division no less, and 12 games left with an injury-prone QB. I've totally resigned myself to the fact that we're NOT making the playoffs. We traded away 3 1st's for Lance. I understand this whole "not ready" mindset regarding Lance. But when you mortgage significant future to draft a QB #3 overall (behind said injury prone QB) he can't be THAT "not ready" to take over a 2 - 4 team with hollow playoff chances. If he's THAT "not ready" then the future should have never been mortgaged to draft him in the first place, and shame on Shanny for doing so.

Nothing personal to Jimmy G. but we've realized is ceiling. The regression before our eyes is just blinding. It was a mistake to not take that 2nd round offer for him. Now, as the trade deadline looms, his trade value will drastically reduce if he starts against the Bears and looks like he's looked.

So, the sooner we go with Lance the better. Let's just get him in there, live with the inevitable rookie mistakes, let him learn on the job (as they say he has a very high IQ), and move on.

IMHO

Why do people keep saying that they are out of the playoffs? They are only one game back for the wildcard spot. Granted they are not playing up to expectations but they are not out of playoffs contention yet.

Ok. Fare enough. Here's the last 11 games.

@ Bears
Cardinals
Rams
@Jaguars
Vikings
@Seahawks
@Bengals
Falcons
@Titans
Texans
@Rams

What's your path to the PO? I don't see us getting more than 5 wins - Bears (we better, or imma have a hard week here in Chicago), Seaducks (maybe), Texans, Jaguars, Rams (only because by that time they're likely starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers).

Before the season started I had this team in the SB. Now, I cannot see us winning more than 7 games. So walk me through how this team get's to the PO.

I get it this team is under performing but to get to the playoffs they have to be one game better than at this time New Orleans and Minnesota. The rams and cards are going to control the first wildcard and there will be two other spots available. The rest of the nfc is flailing around just like the Niners. What ever team can win 7-8 games from here on out is probably going to earn the third spot.

It will probably take 9 wins to make the playoffs. I see six very winnable games from the list above. Now if we can steal a win from the rest of that list, we should make the wild card. At that point, the number one factor is the overall health of key players. That means guys like Trent and Kittle have to be rolling. Wild card teams can still do some damage in the playoffs if they stay healthy.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I've never been a Jimmy G. hater, but I really think he just isn't the QB for this team anymore. If Lance is healthy he needs to be the starter from here on out. We're 2 -4, in the toughest division no less, and 12 games left with an injury-prone QB. I've totally resigned myself to the fact that we're NOT making the playoffs. We traded away 3 1st's for Lance. I understand this whole "not ready" mindset regarding Lance. But when you mortgage significant future to draft a QB #3 overall (behind said injury prone QB) he can't be THAT "not ready" to take over a 2 - 4 team with hollow playoff chances. If he's THAT "not ready" then the future should have never been mortgaged to draft him in the first place, and shame on Shanny for doing so.

Nothing personal to Jimmy G. but we've realized is ceiling. The regression before our eyes is just blinding. It was a mistake to not take that 2nd round offer for him. Now, as the trade deadline looms, his trade value will drastically reduce if he starts against the Bears and looks like he's looked.

So, the sooner we go with Lance the better. Let's just get him in there, live with the inevitable rookie mistakes, let him learn on the job (as they say he has a very high IQ), and move on.

IMHO

Why do people keep saying that they are out of the playoffs? They are only one game back for the wildcard spot. Granted they are not playing up to expectations but they are not out of playoffs contention yet.

Ok. Fare enough. Here's the last 11 games.

@ Bears
Cardinals
Rams
@Jaguars
Vikings
@Seahawks
@Bengals
Falcons
@Titans
Texans
@Rams

What's your path to the PO? I don't see us getting more than 5 wins - Bears (we better, or imma have a hard week here in Chicago), Seaducks (maybe), Texans, Jaguars, Rams (only because by that time they're likely starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers).

Before the season started I had this team in the SB. Now, I cannot see us winning more than 7 games. So walk me through how this team get's to the PO.

I get it this team is under performing but to get to the playoffs they have to be one game better than at this time New Orleans and Minnesota. The rams and cards are going to control the first wildcard and there will be two other spots available. The rest of the nfc is flailing around just like the Niners. What ever team can win 7-8 games from here on out is probably going to earn the third spot.

It will probably take 9 wins to make the playoffs. I see six very winnable games from the list above. Now if we can steal a win from the rest of that list, we should make the wild card. At that point, the number one factor is the overall health of key players. That means guys like Trent and Kittle have to be rolling. Wild card teams can still do some damage in the playoffs if they stay healthy.

There are 5 'locked' playoff teams in the NFC (ARI, LAR, TB, GB, DAL). After that it's a mess of teams that includes SF. Even if SF is a one and done in the playoffs, I think it's critical to stay relevant in the playoff race to set up 2022.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

This is 100% the truth. Jimmy was already well into commitment before Sanu was open. That still frame shows 100% that Jimmy was already committed and II initial throwing stage so I'm confused what dudes trying to prove. Extremely disingenuous imo. Let's see the video at :12 and :13 because at :11 in that photo he's already on his back foot starting the throw
[ Edited by TreyDeyEeyDey on Oct 28, 2021 at 10:51 AM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I've never been a Jimmy G. hater, but I really think he just isn't the QB for this team anymore. If Lance is healthy he needs to be the starter from here on out. We're 2 -4, in the toughest division no less, and 12 games left with an injury-prone QB. I've totally resigned myself to the fact that we're NOT making the playoffs. We traded away 3 1st's for Lance. I understand this whole "not ready" mindset regarding Lance. But when you mortgage significant future to draft a QB #3 overall (behind said injury prone QB) he can't be THAT "not ready" to take over a 2 - 4 team with hollow playoff chances. If he's THAT "not ready" then the future should have never been mortgaged to draft him in the first place, and shame on Shanny for doing so.

Nothing personal to Jimmy G. but we've realized is ceiling. The regression before our eyes is just blinding. It was a mistake to not take that 2nd round offer for him. Now, as the trade deadline looms, his trade value will drastically reduce if he starts against the Bears and looks like he's looked.

So, the sooner we go with Lance the better. Let's just get him in there, live with the inevitable rookie mistakes, let him learn on the job (as they say he has a very high IQ), and move on.

IMHO

Why do people keep saying that they are out of the playoffs? They are only one game back for the wildcard spot. Granted they are not playing up to expectations but they are not out of playoffs contention yet.

Ok. Fare enough. Here's the last 11 games.

@ Bears
Cardinals
Rams
@Jaguars
Vikings
@Seahawks
@Bengals
Falcons
@Titans
Texans
@Rams

What's your path to the PO? I don't see us getting more than 5 wins - Bears (we better, or imma have a hard week here in Chicago), Seaducks (maybe), Texans, Jaguars, Rams (only because by that time they're likely starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers).

Before the season started I had this team in the SB. Now, I cannot see us winning more than 7 games. So walk me through how this team get's to the PO.

I get it this team is under performing but to get to the playoffs they have to be one game better than at this time New Orleans and Minnesota. The rams and cards are going to control the first wildcard and there will be two other spots available. The rest of the nfc is flailing around just like the Niners. What ever team can win 7-8 games from here on out is probably going to earn the third spot.

It will probably take 9 wins to make the playoffs. I see six very winnable games from the list above. Now if we can steal a win from the rest of that list, we should make the wild card. At that point, the number one factor is the overall health of key players. That means guys like Trent and Kittle have to be rolling. Wild card teams can still do some damage in the playoffs if they stay healthy.

I see the Bears, Jags, Falcons and Texans as very winnable. After that it's going to take a couple of upsets. The Seahawks aren't playing well defensively so that could be one. Problem is Wilson will likely be back and he always gives us problems. Even when he has a bad game he pulls a couple of plays out of a hat. Bengals are playing well and Burrow will probably torch our secondary. Cards always play theNiners tough even when they aren't good. That leaves the Rams and the Vikings. Beating the Vikings (not easy) and upsetting the Rams once wold leave them at 9-8 assuming they can beat the Seahawks in Seattle. Not saying it's impossible but not very likely considering the way tis team is playing. This isn't the 2019 team. They're playing bad with a lame duck QB who's having his worst season.
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah, it's possible the safety could go back. But he wasn't going to go back in time to stop that route.

Two reasons: (1) Because the better matchup is Sanu on a linebacker or strong safety. That FS was not going to get over fast enough to stop that little skinny post, which was on its break 1.25 seconds after the snap, indicating it's Sanu vs a LB or SS. (2) Because immediately after the snap, the linebacker on the left edge drifted into the flat.

You would still assume it was cover 1 or cover 3. It's still a single high look. The person who blew the coverage, by the way, WAS the safety who was cheating over. That was a ZONE coverage, not cover 1, as evidenced by the linebacker on the left side who showed blitz and then immediately bailed into the flat post-snap — which is one more reason Jimmy should have thrown it to Sanu — and the middle linebacker who also bailed into zone coverage.

If they are "switching to man coverage on the other side," whatever you mean by that, it's Sanu vs a linebacker or strong safety (and either way this is the case). That's a win 10 out of 10 times.

And it wasn't man, and Jimmy would have known IMMEDIATELY after the snap, because the linebacker on the left edge AND the middle linebacker on the line immediately bailed after the snap, the former drifting to the flat and the latter playing the middle. Given what he already knew about the single high look, this would have confirmed cover 3 AND that the middle was wide open (because the free safety had already moved four or five yards left of the left hash).

.
.

You can deny it all you want here. But deep down inside you know that Tom Brady throws that to Sanu for 6.

Not sure if you saw my conversation with Jonny about this play a few pages back, but according to him it was a Cover 1 man. He said that play design was a one read only to Deebo.

(1) Just because he's Jonny doesn't mean he's right. Who do you trust more about the play? Jonny, or Jimmy Freaking Garoppolo? Even Jimmy indicated there was a progression, and that he didn't look towards Sanu because it was single high and that "Muhammed should've been taken away by the free safety." That's Jimmy saying that. How is it one read if Jimmy here is indicating that based on the coverage he thought Sanu would have been "taken away?" It's NOT a one read pass. Additionally, if it was a one read pass, Sanu wouldn't be holding up his hand. Moreover, if Jonny actually has the playbook as he claims, well Shanahan passing plays have a progression written on them. Ask him to post it, so we can see that there's a progression, indicating that is NOT a one read play. This is nothing but a Jimmy-excuse. EVEN JIMMY GAROPPOLO indicated it was a PROGRESSION, and said that Deebo was the first in the progression due to the single high look.

(2) Is it cover 1 man? Why are the linebackers in zone? Immediately after the snap, the outside linebacker on the left (from the offensive view) drifts into the flat, the middle linebacker drops straight back. There are three WRs on the right side and only two defenders pre-snap. If this were cover one man in a blitz disguise, why did this happen: on the right side, you have two defenders inside the corner, and there are two WRs there (with the CB and WR on the outside locked up). Instead of each following a man, the guy in the middle of those three defenders follows a man, but the inside guy who lined up over Sanu drifts towards the middle of the field after trailing the WR who lines up on the inside of the bunch.

It looks more to me like a cover 3 with two disguises: first a pressure look and then a man look, followed immediately by what obviously appears to be zone (the right side linebacker and middle linebacker clearly dropping into zones). Other coverages it could be: busted cover six; it COULD be cover 1, but then you'd need several players clearly missing their assignments.

So yeah, you could argue it's cover 1. But then you have two odd things going on. First of all, why is the outside linebacker drifting into a flat zone? Maybe you could say the middle linebacker was matching up against the running back (he certainly runs that way when the running back leaves the pocket). But then you have to explain the lbs/ss on the other side. Why did no one follow Sanu?

If this was some form of cover one, there were blown asignments.

But that is irrelevant. Why?

Because even if it's cover 1, the FS is too far to the right to stop the play by Sanu, and Sanu would have been matched up with a LB or SS. That's a win for Sanu, and easily.
[ Edited by 5_Golden_Rings on Oct 28, 2021 at 11:01 AM ]
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

Cossell is wrong.


If he's even he's leaving, and he's well past even here...
.

Regarding the coverage:

Does Cossell mean the post-snap coverage? In that case, the linebacker near the line is immediately bailing to the flat — toward the passing lane for a hitch. Such a LB may not in time, but it still requires a dart. Can a good QB make this throw closer to the sideline? Sure. Is it an easy catch? No. What would a GREAT QB do? Recognize the safety is cheating, moving himself too far to stop Sanu, and realize Sanu would have thus been at worst 1 on 1 with a LB or SS, and eliminated Deebo from the progression pre-snap, and thrown the touchdown to Sanu.

LOL Jimmy is already mid-windup in that screenshot.
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 64,320
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by Izyniner:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I've never been a Jimmy G. hater, but I really think he just isn't the QB for this team anymore. If Lance is healthy he needs to be the starter from here on out. We're 2 -4, in the toughest division no less, and 12 games left with an injury-prone QB. I've totally resigned myself to the fact that we're NOT making the playoffs. We traded away 3 1st's for Lance. I understand this whole "not ready" mindset regarding Lance. But when you mortgage significant future to draft a QB #3 overall (behind said injury prone QB) he can't be THAT "not ready" to take over a 2 - 4 team with hollow playoff chances. If he's THAT "not ready" then the future should have never been mortgaged to draft him in the first place, and shame on Shanny for doing so.

Nothing personal to Jimmy G. but we've realized is ceiling. The regression before our eyes is just blinding. It was a mistake to not take that 2nd round offer for him. Now, as the trade deadline looms, his trade value will drastically reduce if he starts against the Bears and looks like he's looked.

So, the sooner we go with Lance the better. Let's just get him in there, live with the inevitable rookie mistakes, let him learn on the job (as they say he has a very high IQ), and move on.

IMHO

Why do people keep saying that they are out of the playoffs? They are only one game back for the wildcard spot. Granted they are not playing up to expectations but they are not out of playoffs contention yet.

Ok. Fare enough. Here's the last 11 games.

@ Bears
Cardinals
Rams
@Jaguars
Vikings
@Seahawks
@Bengals
Falcons
@Titans
Texans
@Rams

What's your path to the PO? I don't see us getting more than 5 wins - Bears (we better, or imma have a hard week here in Chicago), Seaducks (maybe), Texans, Jaguars, Rams (only because by that time they're likely starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers).

Before the season started I had this team in the SB. Now, I cannot see us winning more than 7 games. So walk me through how this team get's to the PO.

I get it this team is under performing but to get to the playoffs they have to be one game better than at this time New Orleans and Minnesota. The rams and cards are going to control the first wildcard and there will be two other spots available. The rest of the nfc is flailing around just like the Niners. What ever team can win 7-8 games from here on out is probably going to earn the third spot.

It will probably take 9 wins to make the playoffs. I see six very winnable games from the list above. Now if we can steal a win from the rest of that list, we should make the wild card. At that point, the number one factor is the overall health of key players. That means guys like Trent and Kittle have to be rolling. Wild card teams can still do some damage in the playoffs if they stay healthy.

I see the Bears, Jags, Falcons and Texans as very winnable. After that it's going to take a couple of upsets. The Seahawks aren't playing well defensively so that could be one. Problem is Wilson will likely be back and he always gives us problems. Even when he has a bad game he pulls a couple of plays out of a hat. Bengals are playing well and Burrow will probably torch our secondary. Cards always play theNiners tough even when they aren't good. That leaves the Rams and the Vikings. Beating the Vikings (not easy) and upsetting the Rams once wold leave them at 9-8 assuming they can beat the Seahawks in Seattle. Not saying it's impossible but not very likely considering the way tis team is playing. This isn't the 2019 team. They're playing bad with a lame duck QB who's having his worst season.

I think we're going to struggle with Jimmy as the starter - he's just awful right now. Maybe asking too much for Trey to save the day.
[ Edited by mayo49 on Oct 28, 2021 at 11:01 AM ]
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah, it's possible the safety could go back. But he wasn't going to go back in time to stop that route.

Two reasons: (1) Because the better matchup is Sanu on a linebacker or strong safety. That FS was not going to get over fast enough to stop that little skinny post, which was on its break 1.25 seconds after the snap, indicating it's Sanu vs a LB or SS. (2) Because immediately after the snap, the linebacker on the left edge drifted into the flat.

You would still assume it was cover 1 or cover 3. It's still a single high look. The person who blew the coverage, by the way, WAS the safety who was cheating over. That was a ZONE coverage, not cover 1, as evidenced by the linebacker on the left side who showed blitz and then immediately bailed into the flat post-snap — which is one more reason Jimmy should have thrown it to Sanu — and the middle linebacker who also bailed into zone coverage.

If they are "switching to man coverage on the other side," whatever you mean by that, it's Sanu vs a linebacker or strong safety (and either way this is the case). That's a win 10 out of 10 times.

And it wasn't man, and Jimmy would have known IMMEDIATELY after the snap, because the linebacker on the left edge AND the middle linebacker on the line immediately bailed after the snap, the former drifting to the flat and the latter playing the middle. Given what he already knew about the single high look, this would have confirmed cover 3 AND that the middle was wide open (because the free safety had already moved four or five yards left of the left hash).

.
.

You can deny it all you want here. But deep down inside you know that Tom Brady throws that to Sanu for 6.

Not sure if you saw my conversation with Jonny about this play a few pages back, but according to him it was a Cover 1 man. He said that play design was a one read only to Deebo.

(1) Just because he's Jonny doesn't mean he's right. Who do you trust more about the play? Jonny, or Jimmy Freaking Garoppolo? Even Jimmy indicated there was a progression, and that he didn't look towards Sanu because it was single high and that "Muhammed should've been taken away by the free safety." That's Jimmy saying that. How is it one read if Jimmy here is indicating that based on the coverage he thought Sanu would have been "taken away?" It's NOT a one read pass. Additionally, if it was a one read pass, Sanu wouldn't be holding up his hand. Moreover, if Jonny actually has the playbook as he claims, well Shanahan passing plays have a progression written on them. Ask him to post it, so we can see that there's a progression, indicating that is NOT a one read play. This is nothing but a Jimmy-excuse. EVEN JIMMY GAROPPOLO indicated it was a PROGRESSION, and that Deebo said it was the first in the progression due to the single high look.

(2) Is it cover 1 man? Why are the linebackers in zone? Immediately after the snap, the outside linebacker on the left (from the offensive view) drifts into the flat, the middle linebacker drops straight back. There are three WRs on the right side and only two defenders pre-snap. If this were cover one man in a blitz disguise, why did this happen: on the right side, you have two defenders inside the corner, and there are two WRs there (with the CB and WR on the outside locked up). Instead of each following a man, the guy in the middle of those three defenders follows a man, but the inside guy who lined up over Sanu drifts towards the middle of the field after trailing the WR who lines up on the inside of the bunch.

It looks more to me like a cover 3 with two disguises: first a pressure look and then a man look, followed immediately by what obviously appears to be zone (the right side linebacker and middle linebacker clearly dropping into zones). Other coverages it could be: busted cover six; it COULD be cover 1, but then you'd need several players clearly missing their assignments.

So yeah, you could argue it's cover 1. But then you have two odd things going on. First of all, why is the outside linebacker drifting into a flat zone? Maybe you could say the middle linebacker was matching up against the running back (he certainly runs that way when the running back leaves the pocket). But then you have to explain the lbs/ss on the other side. Why did no one follow Sanu?

If this was some form of cover one, there were blown asignments.

But that is irrelevant. Why?

Because even if it's cover 1, the FS is too far to the right to stop the play by Sanu, and Sanu would have been matched up with a LB or SS. That's a win for Sanu, and easily.

Jimmy/Deebo are obviously wrong and JD is right.
Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

This is 100% the truth. Jimmy was already well into commitment before Sanu was open. That still frame shows 100% that Jimmy was already committed and II initial throwing stage so I'm confused what dudes trying to prove. Extremely disingenuous imo. Let's see the video at :12 and :13 because at :11 in that photo he's already on his back foot starting the throw

(1) Sanu was NOT open "a year after Jimmy threw it." That is a FALSE statement, and I proved it without a shadow of a doubt. You have now MOVED THE GOALPOST to "Jimmy was already committed." That, however, is not something I dispute. Which brings me to this:

(2) The error was in the pre-snap read in recognizing that the free safety cheated over and was never going to get to Sanu in time, and given based on the front that Sanu was going to be matched up against a linebacker or SS at best.

Is this an error in executing the play? No. Single high, the first read is the hitch. So what is the error? Not recognizing the mistake the free safety made presnap and punishing him for it. "Overcoming coaching." You can dream all you want, but Kyler Murray, Matthew Stafford, and Russell Wilson are throwing a touchdown to Sanu on that pass.
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

Cossell is wrong.


If he's even he's leaving, and he's well past even here...
.

Regarding the coverage:

Does Cossell mean the post-snap coverage? In that case, the linebacker near the line is immediately bailing to the flat — toward the passing lane for a hitch. Such a LB may not in time, but it still requires a dart. Can a good QB make this throw closer to the sideline? Sure. Is it an easy catch? No. What would a GREAT QB do? Recognize the safety is cheating, moving himself too far to stop Sanu, and realize Sanu would have thus been at worst 1 on 1 with a LB or SS, and eliminated Deebo from the progression pre-snap, and thrown the touchdown to Sanu.

LOL Jimmy is already mid-windup in that screenshot.

The claim was that Sanu was open "a year after he threw it." That is CLEARLY a false statement.

Sanu is open right here:


See the leverage? There is a greater chance the the Rapture happens in five minutes than that defender is five yards near Sanu if Jimmy had instead chosen to skip the first read based on the position of the safety and thrown to Sanu.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

Cossell is wrong.


If he's even he's leaving, and he's well past even here...
.

Regarding the coverage:

Does Cossell mean the post-snap coverage? In that case, the linebacker near the line is immediately bailing to the flat — toward the passing lane for a hitch. Such a LB may not in time, but it still requires a dart. Can a good QB make this throw closer to the sideline? Sure. Is it an easy catch? No. What would a GREAT QB do? Recognize the safety is cheating, moving himself too far to stop Sanu, and realize Sanu would have thus been at worst 1 on 1 with a LB or SS, and eliminated Deebo from the progression pre-snap, and thrown the touchdown to Sanu.

LOL Jimmy is already mid-windup in that screenshot.

The claim was that Sanu was open "a year after he threw it." That is CLEARLY a false statement.

Sanu is open right here:


See the leverage? There is a greater chance the the Rapture happens in five minutes than that defender is five yards near Sanu if Jimmy had instead chosen to skip the first read based on the position of the safety and thrown to Sanu.

Now do :12 and :13 please.
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