Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Now do :12 and :13 please.

Lol what this debate makes me realize is that it is easy to play QB when you have the ability to freeze time and 20/20 hindsight of the outcome. Understand JG had about 1.5 seconds to get the ball out and the hand of God came down with a bomb cyclonic atmospheric river. Fans literally wearing swim caps to the game. Only about 20 people on planet earth can do this job of NFL QB well and he's one of them. Which is why he has the contract, the wins, the SB rings and appearences etc etc.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah, it's possible the safety could go back. But he wasn't going to go back in time to stop that route.

Two reasons: (1) Because the better matchup is Sanu on a linebacker or strong safety. That FS was not going to get over fast enough to stop that little skinny post, which was on its break 1.25 seconds after the snap, indicating it's Sanu vs a LB or SS. (2) Because immediately after the snap, the linebacker on the left edge drifted into the flat.

You would still assume it was cover 1 or cover 3. It's still a single high look. The person who blew the coverage, by the way, WAS the safety who was cheating over. That was a ZONE coverage, not cover 1, as evidenced by the linebacker on the left side who showed blitz and then immediately bailed into the flat post-snap — which is one more reason Jimmy should have thrown it to Sanu — and the middle linebacker who also bailed into zone coverage.

If they are "switching to man coverage on the other side," whatever you mean by that, it's Sanu vs a linebacker or strong safety (and either way this is the case). That's a win 10 out of 10 times.

And it wasn't man, and Jimmy would have known IMMEDIATELY after the snap, because the linebacker on the left edge AND the middle linebacker on the line immediately bailed after the snap, the former drifting to the flat and the latter playing the middle. Given what he already knew about the single high look, this would have confirmed cover 3 AND that the middle was wide open (because the free safety had already moved four or five yards left of the left hash).

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You can deny it all you want here. But deep down inside you know that Tom Brady throws that to Sanu for 6.

Not sure if you saw my conversation with Jonny about this play a few pages back, but according to him it was a Cover 1 man. He said that play design was a one read only to Deebo.

(1) Just because he's Jonny doesn't mean he's right. Who do you trust more about the play? Jonny, or Jimmy Freaking Garoppolo? Even Jimmy indicated there was a progression, and that he didn't look towards Sanu because it was single high and that "Muhammed should've been taken away by the free safety." That's Jimmy saying that. How is it one read if Jimmy here is indicating that based on the coverage he thought Sanu would have been "taken away?" It's NOT a one read pass. Additionally, if it was a one read pass, Sanu wouldn't be holding up his hand. Moreover, if Jonny actually has the playbook as he claims, well Shanahan passing plays have a progression written on them. Ask him to post it, so we can see that there's a progression, indicating that is NOT a one read play. This is nothing but a Jimmy-excuse. EVEN JIMMY GAROPPOLO indicated it was a PROGRESSION, and that Deebo said it was the first in the progression due to the single high look.

(2) Is it cover 1 man? Why are the linebackers in zone? Immediately after the snap, the outside linebacker on the left (from the offensive view) drifts into the flat, the middle linebacker drops straight back. There are three WRs on the right side and only two defenders pre-snap. If this were cover one man in a blitz disguise, why did this happen: on the right side, you have two defenders inside the corner, and there are two WRs there (with the CB and WR on the outside locked up). Instead of each following a man, the guy in the middle of those three defenders follows a man, but the inside guy who lined up over Sanu drifts towards the middle of the field after trailing the WR who lines up on the inside of the bunch.

It looks more to me like a cover 3 with two disguises: first a pressure look and then a man look, followed immediately by what obviously appears to be zone (the right side linebacker and middle linebacker clearly dropping into zones). Other coverages it could be: busted cover six; it COULD be cover 1, but then you'd need several players clearly missing their assignments.

So yeah, you could argue it's cover 1. But then you have two odd things going on. First of all, why is the outside linebacker drifting into a flat zone? Maybe you could say the middle linebacker was matching up against the running back (he certainly runs that way when the running back leaves the pocket). But then you have to explain the lbs/ss on the other side. Why did no one follow Sanu?

If this was some form of cover one, there were blown asignments.

But that is irrelevant. Why?

Because even if it's cover 1, the FS is too far to the right to stop the play by Sanu, and Sanu would have been matched up with a LB or SS. That's a win for Sanu, and easily.

Jimmy/Deebo are obviously wrong and JD is right.

Hey I miss-typed that. I don't know if Deebo said anything. I meant to say that Jimmy said Deebo was the first read, and he indicated it was a "process," and that he chose to throw there because the single high look indicated a one on one with Deebo. And lastly, that "Mohamed should've been taken away by the free safety." Bottom line: that wasn't a play where everyone on the right is a decoy and that there is only one place to throw the ball. AFTER you choose to make that your first read, it's still not set in stone as the only progression on the play (In a similar disguised look against Seattle [another interception], Jimmy had a similar hitch and didn't throw it because the coverage. Other than screens, I HIGHLY doubt there are any plays at all in this system where the QB has one and only one place to throw the ball (which is what I am assuming they mean by "one read.").

That said, when Jimmy made up his mind to throw it there, there was no time to change his mind. If you chose to throw there, there can be no hesitation.

The error was made in not seeing the whole field before the snap, seeing that the FS vacated the middle, leaving AT WORST Sanu on a linebacker or SS.

Or here's the entire play that shows how amazing obvious it is that Jimmy's one read is Deebo. If he does not get this off when he does Deebo is not hit directly in the hands.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
"You wish you'd see the whole field."
"You've just got to see everything."

I don't care even if the progression started with Deebo. As Jimmy himself said, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THE WHOLE FIELD. YOU'VE GOT JUST TO SEE EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking post-snap, in that 1.5 seconds that he's setting up to throw. I'm talking about seeing the FS drift four yards left of the left hash before the snap. You've got to just see everything. 15 or so NFL QBs would have seen that an adjusted. Would have "overcame coaching." You can give him a pass for it if you want, and that just means you're satisfied with bottom 15 or so QB play. I won't. Because I want an ELITE QB.

Cossell said Sanu wasn't anywhere near open until a year after Jimmy threw it to Deebo. He also said considering the coverage, it's not a bad bet to throw that route to your best WR.

This is 100% the truth. Jimmy was already well into commitment before Sanu was open. That still frame shows 100% that Jimmy was already committed and II initial throwing stage so I'm confused what dudes trying to prove. Extremely disingenuous imo. Let's see the video at :12 and :13 because at :11 in that photo he's already on his back foot starting the throw

(1) Sanu was NOT open "a year after Jimmy threw it." That is a FALSE statement, and I proved it without a shadow of a doubt. You have now MOVED THE GOALPOST to "Jimmy was already committed." That, however, is not something I dispute. Which brings me to this:

(2) The error was in the pre-snap read in recognizing that the free safety cheated over and was never going to get to Sanu in time, and given based on the front that Sanu was going to be matched up against a linebacker or SS at best.

Is this an error in executing the play? No. Single high, the first read is the hitch. So what is the error? Not recognizing the mistake the free safety made presnap and punishing him for it. "Overcoming coaching." You can dream all you want, but Kyler Murray, Matthew Stafford, and Russell Wilson are throwing a touchdown to Sanu on that pass.

Ya that's one thing you see with Jimmy a lot, is how locked in he gets on his WR. He overcommits too much and doesn't even try to sell it. If he knew that he was gonna go to Deebo there no matter what (which he did) at least try to sell it a little bit.

But for some reason there's a narrative here on this forum and Kyle forces Jimmy to throw to the first read every time or there aren't multiple reads, which is absolute bs. Most of the time Kyle calls a passing play where it's one read only, is gonna be a screen pass. Majority of the time, all his passing plays has multiple progressions. Jimmy just isn't that good at reading a defense or quickly scanning the field.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Now do :12 and :13 please.

Lol what this debate makes me realize is that it is easy to play QB when you have the ability to freeze time and 20/20 hindsight of the outcome. Understand JG had about 1.5 seconds to get the ball out and the hand of God came down with a bomb cyclonic atmospheric river. Fans literally wearing swim caps to the game. Only about 20 people on planet earth can do this job of NFL QB well and he's one of them. Which is why he has the contract, the wins, the SB rings and appearences etc etc.

Again, the error was not made after the snap (unless you argue the throw should have been more toward the sideline, which Jimmy himself said). The error was ignoring the safety running toward the left, and the linebacker leaving the sugar position to line up man to man (indicating this was either man coverage or a cover 3 pattern match concept. If it was the former, either a linebacker or SS butchered their man assignment, and either way, the FS butchered his assignment). BECAUSE of this pre-snap motion by the defenders, Jimmy had to have known Sanu was matched up vs a linebacker or strong safety. He knew the routes. He knew the corner couldn't have drifted over to cover Sanu because the outside route.

Jimmy by that point already had one strip sack turnover. He's not gonna wait and float one to Sanu downfield. He had already made up his mind to squeeze one quick and short to Deebo no matter what. It's retarded in a rain soak game with Deebo trying to strong arm a defender pulling his other arm for a catch and wrap.

Perfectly placed ball to an open guy.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Or here's the entire play that shows how amazing obvious it is that Jimmy's one read is Deebo. If he does not get this off when he does Deebo is not hit directly in the hands.

Sanu open on the probable game winning TD. Jimmy is so ass! pic.twitter.com/7bH8uD8syS

— Jessie Naylor (@JNay_LSS) October 25, 2021

That is not a one read concept. If it was a one read concept, Jimmy wouldn't have indicated he went there because he thought the free safety would have taken Sanu out. That's the first read, and again, if he chose to throw that presnap, there is no reason not to immediately after the snap.

The problem is that by not skipping the first read, he left a touchdown on the field. And why should he have skipped the first read? Because as Jimmy said when describing the play, "Mohamed should have been taken away by the free safety, he was just making a... doing whatever he wants type of play."

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Let me translate this for you:

Robot QB: Throw towards Deebo, making the decision presnap, because it's single high and that essentially makes it a one on one.

Elite QB: See the safety cheating 4-5 yards to the left, leaving a linebacker or SS on Sanu, choose to SKIP the first read, throw a touchdown.

Jimmy QB: Robot QB except regretting throwing the ball so far inside. "I wish I threw it a little further on his back shoulder. Just hung inside a little bit."

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Lol what this debate makes me realize is that it is easy to play QB when you have the ability to freeze time and 20/20 hindsight of the outcome. Understand JG had about 1.5 seconds to get the ball out and the hand of God came down with a bomb cyclonic atmospheric river. Fans literally wearing swim caps to the game. Only about 20 people on planet earth can do this job of NFL QB well and he's one of them. Which is why he has the contract, the wins, the SB rings and appearences etc etc.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Or here's the entire play that shows how amazing obvious it is that Jimmy's one read is Deebo. If he does not get this off when he does Deebo is not hit directly in the hands.

Sanu open on the probable game winning TD. Jimmy is so ass! pic.twitter.com/7bH8uD8syS

— Jessie Naylor (@JNay_LSS) October 25, 2021

That is not a one read concept. If it was a one read concept, Jimmy wouldn't have indicated he went there because he thought the free safety would have taken Sanu out. That's the first read, and again, if he chose to throw that presnap, there is no reason not to immediately after the snap.

The problem is that by not skipping the first read, he left a touchdown on the field. And why should he have skipped the first read? Because as Jimmy said when describing the play, "Mohamed should have been taken away by the free safety, he was just making a... doing whatever he wants type of play."

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Let me translate this for you:

Robot QB: Throw towards Deebo, making the decision presnap, because it's single high and that essentially makes it a one on one.

Elite QB: See the safety cheating 4-5 yards to the left, leaving a linebacker or SS on Sanu, choose to SKIP the first read, throw a touchdown.

Jimmy QB: Robot QB except regretting throwing the ball so far inside. "I wish I threw it a little further on his back shoulder. Just hung inside a little bit."

Aaaand if Sanu is covered where should he go? He threw a perfect pass to an open spot that hit the receiver right in the hands.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Aaaand if Sanu is covered where should he go? He threw a perfect pass to an open spot that hit the receiver right in the hands.

Give me a break with this "analysis."

It wasnt a perfect pass and the defender got his hands in the mix too. Jimmy himself acknowledged the ball didnt go exactly where it should have.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Or here's the entire play that shows how amazing obvious it is that Jimmy's one read is Deebo. If he does not get this off when he does Deebo is not hit directly in the hands.

Sanu open on the probable game winning TD. Jimmy is so ass! pic.twitter.com/7bH8uD8syS

— Jessie Naylor (@JNay_LSS) October 25, 2021

That is not a one read concept. If it was a one read concept, Jimmy wouldn't have indicated he went there because he thought the free safety would have taken Sanu out. That's the first read, and again, if he chose to throw that presnap, there is no reason not to immediately after the snap.

The problem is that by not skipping the first read, he left a touchdown on the field. And why should he have skipped the first read? Because as Jimmy said when describing the play, "Mohamed should have been taken away by the free safety, he was just making a... doing whatever he wants type of play."

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Let me translate this for you:

Robot QB: Throw towards Deebo, making the decision presnap, because it's single high and that essentially makes it a one on one.

Elite QB: See the safety cheating 4-5 yards to the left, leaving a linebacker or SS on Sanu, choose to SKIP the first read, throw a touchdown.

Jimmy QB: Robot QB except regretting throwing the ball so far inside. "I wish I threw it a little further on his back shoulder. Just hung inside a little bit."

Aaaand if Sanu is covered where should he go? He threw a perfect pass to an open spot that hit the receiver right in the hands.

(1) Jimmy said himself he regrets not throwing the pass more to the outside, so yeah no, not a perfect pass. But that's okay, that's not my problem here.

(2) Play the odds. There aren't many LBs or SSs in the NFL that can cover Sanu one on one. But if he's actually covered, what should Jimmy do? Continue the progression to the 3, which would the in-breaking route (assuming that's the progression, and I can't imagine why it wouldn't be if he chose to start on the right). But in this case, the pocket would be collapsing then, so he would either take the sack or scramble to try to make something happen. If he were an ELITE QB, which is what this hypothetical I am suggestion is resting upon, he'd be able to move around a bit.

Nevertheless, the question would be moot if he had thrown that ball more to the outside. Yeah, he might get ripped on for not choosing to punish the FS for having ZERO respect for Jimmy, which is why he vacated the middle presnap, but there would not be this kind of a controversy because had that ball been thrown more outside, it's a first down.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Or here's the entire play that shows how amazing obvious it is that Jimmy's one read is Deebo. If he does not get this off when he does Deebo is not hit directly in the hands.

Sanu open on the probable game winning TD. Jimmy is so ass! pic.twitter.com/7bH8uD8syS

— Jessie Naylor (@JNay_LSS) October 25, 2021

That is not a one read concept. If it was a one read concept, Jimmy wouldn't have indicated he went there because he thought the free safety would have taken Sanu out. That's the first read, and again, if he chose to throw that presnap, there is no reason not to immediately after the snap.

The problem is that by not skipping the first read, he left a touchdown on the field. And why should he have skipped the first read? Because as Jimmy said when describing the play, "Mohamed should have been taken away by the free safety, he was just making a... doing whatever he wants type of play."

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Let me translate this for you:

Robot QB: Throw towards Deebo, making the decision presnap, because it's single high and that essentially makes it a one on one.

Elite QB: See the safety cheating 4-5 yards to the left, leaving a linebacker or SS on Sanu, choose to SKIP the first read, throw a touchdown.

Jimmy QB: Robot QB except regretting throwing the ball so far inside. "I wish I threw it a little further on his back shoulder. Just hung inside a little bit."

Aaaand if Sanu is covered where should he go? He threw a perfect pass to an open spot that hit the receiver right in the hands.

(1) Jimmy said himself he regrets not throwing the pass more to the outside, so yeah no, not a perfect pass. But that's okay, that's not my problem here.

(2) Play the odds. There aren't many LBs or SSs in the NFL that can cover Sanu one on one. But if he's actually covered, what should Jimmy do? Continue the progression to the 3, which would the in-breaking route (assuming that's the progression, and I can't imagine why it wouldn't be if he chose to start on the right). But in this case, the pocket would be collapsing then, so he would either take the sack or scramble to try to make something happen. If he were an ELITE QB, which is what this hypothetical I am suggestion is resting upon, he'd be able to move around a bit.

Nevertheless, the question would be moot if he had thrown that ball more to the outside. Yeah, he might get ripped on for not choosing to punish the FS for having ZERO respect for Jimmy, which is why he vacated the middle presnap, but there would not be this kind of a controversy because had that ball been thrown more outside, it's a first down.

Disagree. He vacated the play because Jimmy was throwing to the out from the get go. Like literally the second he got the snap he was in throwing motion.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
(1) Jimmy said himself he regrets not throwing the pass more to the outside, so yeah no, not a perfect pass. But that's okay, that's not my problem here.

(2) Play the odds. There aren't many LBs or SSs in the NFL that can cover Sanu one on one. But if he's actually covered, what should Jimmy do? Continue the progression to the 3, which would the in-breaking route (assuming that's the progression, and I can't imagine why it wouldn't be if he chose to start on the right). But in this case, the pocket would be collapsing then, so he would either take the sack or scramble to try to make something happen. If he were an ELITE QB, which is what this hypothetical I am suggestion is resting upon, he'd be able to move around a bit.

Nevertheless, the question would be moot if he had thrown that ball more to the outside. Yeah, he might get ripped on for not choosing to punish the FS for having ZERO respect for Jimmy, which is why he vacated the middle presnap, but there would not be this kind of a controversy because had that ball been thrown more outside, it's a first down.

There's really no point in arguing right now. If people watched that last game and this season as a whole and have been happy with what they've seen from Jimmy no amount of pointing out mistakes is going to change their mind.

If Deebo catches the ball with his hands, that's a first down and the drive continues.