Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
A lot of people gush over arm strength and think it is more important than winning. Despite the fact we are the 49ers and our entire history is about the West Coast Offense and the whole point of the WCO is the exact opposite of air yards. The short passing game and YAC is in our DNA. Walsh and Montana were not much for air yards.

Who's talking about arm strength? That has nothing to do with it...IAY is not just about throwing the ball 55 yards downfield. It's the depth of his targets overall. People simply hear the word air yards and think that means throwing it deep, which is incorrect.

What about Steve Young? This isn't the 80s man. This is 2021 and the rules have changed. You can't go 3 plays now without a freaking flag being thrown...you can't have long drawn out drives like back in the day.

That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Made up stat

Googles what is average air yards

now your just googling what is IAY lol. Yeah next gen stats is just making stuff up. Your right avg depth of target isn't real life.

Hey man just say you don't like analytics. Just say you don't like any stat that doesn't make your hero look great, it's pretty clear you get super offend when anyone points out anything critical of him.

I guess I can just say any stat I don't like is made up

Ok... If I'm wrong show me the metrics that IAY means anything at all. Link me please to where IAY equates to points or anything... A single meaningful thing.

Lol Google doesn't even know

Bruh step up your google game. First, actually TYPE intended airyards per attempt. Second, put this next to it:

-fantasy.

That way you can get to the analytics sites that aren't interested in Fantasy Football.

Here's a quick Quara link. The first answer gives the rationale for the stat:

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-NFL-statistic-Air-Yards-mean-What-is-its-significance

"One of the developments recently is the attempt to separate the contribution of the receiver from the contribution of the quarterback, so they can be evaluated separately. One way to do that is to separate a passing play into "air yards" (the distance covered while the ball is in the air) and "yards after catch" (the portion of the play the receiver runs after catching the ball).

Consider two 30 yard touchdown catches — a screen pass where the receiver runs it all the way in, or a bomb to a wide open receiver already standing in the end zone. The former would have 0 air yards and 30 yards after catch; the latter would have 30 air yards and 0 yards after catch. YAC seems to have caught on more quickly because it identifies receivers who are good at making their own space with the ball, but air yards matter as well — a quarterback who's got 300 yards by taking chances downfield is probably a better quarterback than a guy who got 300 yards passing by throwing a bunch of 5-yard slants that his receivers turned into big gains; they'd both have 300 yards passing at the end of the day, but the first guy would have more air yards."

Thank you!

For years one of the golden stats for a QB was YPA BUT that didn't account for YAC. air yards simply takes away the YAC. IAY shows avg depth of each passing attempt regardless of completion.

Like every damn stat our there, it's just another quantifiable data point we can use to evaluate a player

— a quarterback who's got 300 yards by taking chances downfield is probably a better quarterback than a guy who got 300 yards passing by throwing a bunch of 5-yard slants that his receivers turned into big gains; they'd both have 300 yards passing at the end of the day, but the first guy would have more air yards."

Lol "probably". It still explains nothing and says probably lol ffs

There is literally no stat that is the end all be all when it comes to quantifying a player.

Otherwise, Jimmy completely sucked yesterday because he had 0 TD passes. Right?

How many pages will this needlessly go on?

You have to admit getting TDs is important. TD passes and INTs both have a huger effect on QB ratings because they are more important than yards. The TDs for obvious reasons and the INTs can turn a game around. Gaining 60 yards in the air during a drive that doesn't result in points is worthless.

Exactly,...they are important,...given time. So,...we give him 16 games and we're disappointed if he only has 18 TDs.

But 1 game with 0 TDs doesn't tell the whole tale. It could've been vs. the best passing defense in the league. This is just how statistics work.

More Games = More Meaning.

But the point is no one stat can tell you everything about a SINGLE football game. I've said this years ago, but that's pretty much why the sport is 1 of the best in the world.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

IF your whole plan is to throw bubble screens/ shovel passes and a bunch of passes under 10 yards all year you don't need to pay the QB $27M to do that job.

And there it is. If you have a problem with IAY, you should be bringing this up in the Kyle Shanahan thread. Not the Jimmy Garoppolo thread.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
No one is claiming throwing deep is more important that winning. Yes, its a knock on our current QB and has been pointed out by many posters....yet not a single one of them says that its more important than winning.

The game plan of LeFleur and Rodgers , KK in AZ, Pete the cheat in SEA, and Reich in 4 consecutive games was to throw deep 3-4 times /game and look for the red flag, and all virtually all but 1 of those 12 passes ended up DPIs. Throwing deep isn't the QBs choice , it's the HC's Why kyle didn't do what opposing coaches were doing is a mystery. We gave up almost 120 yds/game and 3 TDs to PIs. Kyle SHOULD have been doing the same thing but didn't. That's on the HC, not the QB.

I highly doubt Rodgers or some of these other QBs only makes the throws his coach tells him to. Any proof to back this up?

That's not the point. Point is, HC Kyle should have had JG throwing deep 3-4x /game to get the same red flags that our opponents got on their 30-40 yard shots. And yes, most of the time the deep ball is the HCs choice, altho obviously all the above QBs can choose to throw it deep if they see someone has beaten his DB. I'm a kyle fan and was long before he got here. But not throwing deep 3 or 4 times a game when the refs are calling DPIs, is not using every tool in the toolbox. And today's refs seem a lot more likely to throw a red flag on deep balls than not.

I will say our DBs deep ball coverage has just stunk to high heaven previous 4 games, and astute opponent HCs, knew that going into the games. Kyle's error…actually 2 errors. First was not teaching our DBs how to defend deep balls, and 2nd not using the tactic against our opponents.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Throwing deep isn't the QBs choice

That is simply not true.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

IF your whole plan is to throw bubble screens/ shovel passes and a bunch of passes under 10 yards all year you don't need to pay the QB $27M to do that job.

And there it is. If you have a problem with IAY, you should be bringing this up in the Kyle Shanahan thread. Not the Jimmy Garoppolo thread.

Ya no doubt. If he had lets say Pat instead of Jimmy, I'm sure Kyles game plan would just involves 5 yard passes lol. That's obviously how Ryan wonMVP, and how Schuab let the NFL in passing yards.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Throwing deep isn't the QBs choice

That is simply not true.

What? In our control freak of a HCs scheme he gives our QB lots of choice or 1 or 2 reads he expects him to take? Have you been watching Grant Cohn again?

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

HELLO then why do you think the play-caller is calling plays like that? Maybe just maybe because our QB overall isn't consistent there. Payton with Brees lowest IAY in the league, Payton with Winston 3rd highest in the league. Jared Goff last yr 6.5, Stafford this yr 8.8. Jimmy G avg is around 6.5 Matt Ryan in 2016 9 IAY.

What is the point of your last sentence?

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
A 50 yard bomb skews the numbers LMAO

Are you confused about the stat like you are about every mobile QB getting hurt this year? Hehe.

No I just understand that this stat is about attempts. Just like I understand that statistical evidence says running QBs don't get injured more.

LOL. Nope.

NCommand you seem like you are a fairly sharp, logical person. Why do you continue to argue with me when there are countless statistical studies that prove running QBs dont get hurt more? Are you really that married to your position that you cant just admit you are wrong? I just dont get it.

Have you watched any other games this year? Check that. Have you watched the 49ers vs. Cards?

I can find a "study" that proves smoking is healthy. That doesn't mean it's accurate. Also, in most of these studies it's all in how you operationally define your terms. That's subjective by nature.

At the end of the day, the more you keep the ball in a QB's hands, the longer he holds it, the higher probability he's going to get hurt eventually.

#16Times

No I havent watched any other games this year. Come on now.

There are COUNTLLESS studies, not just one. Countless. So your example of a study that proves smoking is healthy is comparing apples to hand grenades.

OK. You have to ignore a lot to dismiss the extra evidence added this year alone...where more athletic QB's have come into the league. Maybe there will be more accurate studies in the future when they catch up to equal volume. Time to update those studies.

But I can manipulate those too. Like Patrick Mahomes recently. I can say he got a concussion but didn't miss a game. And he got hurt inside the pocket. But what's missing is he was trying to do his Superman flying throw head first into a DT's knee cap nearly decapitating himself. It won't count but it was an athletic QB trying to do an unnecessary athletic thing on his own that got him hurt again. Like RGIII and so many others who have always relied on their athleticism.

There's nothing wrong with that but the MORE you do it, the higher the probability something bad happens. You seem like an intelligent person. I'm sure you'd agree with that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

HELLO then why do you think the play-caller is calling plays like that? Maybe just maybe because our QB overall isn't consistent there. Payton with Brees lowest IAY in the league, Payton with Winston 3rd highest in the league. Jared Goff last yr 6.5, Stafford this yr 8.8. Jimmy G avg is around 6.5 Matt Ryan in 2016 9 IAY.

What is the point of your last sentence?

See, I told you this was 100% about Garoppolo.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Throwing deep isn't the QBs choice

That is simply not true.

What? In our control freak of a HCs scheme he gives our QB lots of choice or 1 or 2 reads he expects him to take? Have you been watching Grant Cohn again?

He said overall throwing the ball deep is not the Qb's choice and that's simply not true in the board sense.

What you telling me there's never a WR running around more than 10 yards in Kyle's scheme...ever? So when Jimmy does have success it's because of one of the two reads that Kyle gives him? I see...

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

IF your whole plan is to throw bubble screens/ shovel passes and a bunch of passes under 10 yards all year you don't need to pay the QB $27M to do that job.

And there it is. If you have a problem with IAY, you should be bringing this up in the Kyle Shanahan thread. Not the Jimmy Garoppolo thread.

Ya no doubt. If he had lets say Pat instead of Jimmy, I'm sure Kyles game plan would just involves 5 yard passes lol. That's obviously how Ryan wonMVP, and how Schuab let the NFL in passing yards.

Let me know when we get one of the two very best deep threats of all time...one because of speed and elusiveness and the other d/t size and athleticism. Two HOF worthy players.

Any HC would call more deeper shots like that because they become a higher % throw vs. guys like Kendrick Bourne, Brandon Aiyuk and Deebo Samuel. In fact, if Kyle was more interested in IAY, he'd freaking draft personnel with that strength and skill set.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

HELLO then why do you think the play-caller is calling plays like that? Maybe just maybe because our QB overall isn't consistent there. Payton with Brees lowest IAY in the league, Payton with Winston 3rd highest in the league. Jared Goff last yr 6.5, Stafford this yr 8.8. Jimmy G avg is around 6.5 Matt Ryan in 2016 9 IAY.

What is the point of your last sentence?

See, I told you this was 100% about Garoppolo.

Well know s**t lol...WTF we're in the Jimmy thread. IF your QB is not good throwing the ball downfield or outside of the numbers, why would you call plays for that? You think if Kyle had Mahomes/Allen/Watson he would be running the same exact passing game? He wouldn't be using their skill set? come on man.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Well know s**t lol...WTF we're in the Jimmy thread. IF your QB is not good throwing the ball downfield or outside of the numbers, why would you call plays for that? You think if Kyle had Mahomes/Allen/Watson he would be running the same exact passing game? He wouldn't be using their skill set? come on man.

You must have missed the absolute bomb he completed right before half.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

HELLO then why do you think the play-caller is calling plays like that? Maybe just maybe because our QB overall isn't consistent there. Payton with Brees lowest IAY in the league, Payton with Winston 3rd highest in the league. Jared Goff last yr 6.5, Stafford this yr 8.8. Jimmy G avg is around 6.5 Matt Ryan in 2016 9 IAY.

What is the point of your last sentence?

See, I told you this was 100% about Garoppolo.

Well know s**t lol...WTF we're in the Jimmy thread. IF your QB is not good throwing the ball downfield or outside of the numbers, why would you call plays for that? You think if Kyle had Mahomes/Allen/Watson he would be running the same exact passing game? He wouldn't be using their skill set? come on man.

OK. So AFTER seeing the success of Garoppolo to Deebo, why didn't Kyle call more of those deeper sets with the deep the primary?

Do you expect him to call more in the next game? LOL

Of course not. That's not how he rolls. He's all about high % plays. Maybe he calls one or two explosives off those.

BUT, if Kyle sticks with a spread game plan for Garoppolo, you wanna bet his IAY will be high again?