Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Could be his mechanics issues are related to how he feels about protection and if he sees the throw fast enough to take the time to get his feet into it.

No doubt.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

It looked like CHI was in C4(I haven't seen the coaches film to confirm) and it was a Mills concept and the middle quarter safety jumped on the intermediate route.

I believe that's exactly what it was. You can tell Dwelley(?) ran the Dig and that opened up the Post.

The thing about throws to the outside, Kyle really only throws those as schemed up. He rarely likes just go routes from the outside gut- aiyuk was on a slot fade vs a safety when we targeted him, he likes post-corners off a PIN look and a lot of his Fades are only vs C2 and convert to stop routes or curls vs C1. Or sluggo routes

You can see he does these this way to open up other plays in his offense. That's why you really don't see the deep fade much. I'm not saying it's never, but it's more rare because it doesn't tie into other plays as well - like, throwing a deep fade vs C1 doesn't open up your Ohio or stick or stick-nod anymore than it would be vs those coverages. Every play Kyle has has something to pair off it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's how you define it?

That's on the play designer not the QB 'unless' that design has the deepest route as a primary AND he was a quality option there. And that stat won't reflect that. It can't.

It simple counts what the QB did throw in air yards and averages their total distances by total attempts. If anything you'll, by play design and philosophy, see differences in Air Coryell offenses vs. a more traditional WCO. Athletic QB's vs. traditional pocket passers.

High-low, low-high, 3 trips side, 3 levels, left to right and vice versa progressions, man beaters, etc.

HELLO then why do you think the play-caller is calling plays like that? Maybe just maybe because our QB overall isn't consistent there. Payton with Brees lowest IAY in the league, Payton with Winston 3rd highest in the league. Jared Goff last yr 6.5, Stafford this yr 8.8. Jimmy G avg is around 6.5 Matt Ryan in 2016 9 IAY.

What is the point of your last sentence?

See, I told you this was 100% about Garoppolo.

Well know s**t lol...WTF we're in the Jimmy thread. IF your QB is not good throwing the ball downfield or outside of the numbers, why would you call plays for that? You think if Kyle had Mahomes/Allen/Watson he would be running the same exact passing game? He wouldn't be using their skill set? come on man.

OK. So AFTER seeing the success of Garoppolo to Deebo, why didn't Kyle call more of those deeper sets with the deep the primary?

Do you expect him to call more in the next game? LOL

Of course not. That's not how he rolls. He's all about high % plays. Maybe he calls one or two explosives off those.

BUT, if Kyle sticks with a spread game plan for Garoppolo, you wanna bet his IAY will be high again?

Part of this is that we can't get a first down or two consistently. Kyle likes to attack, but he likes to do so after setting it up on earlier plays in the series.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think JG was making a point out there. He was running the Trey package and doing it better than Trey to be honest. That was an absolute game for the ages. Even more impressive considering how many drops our receivers had. JG has the fire in him. Open it up and let him throw.

Running the Trey package? Lol he had ONE zone read and NO ONE saw it coming. The other rushing TD was a busted play. Seriously I wonder if people actually watch the games at all...

What is it like to live so divorced from reality....

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think JG was making a point out there. He was running the Trey package and doing it better than Trey to be honest. That was an absolute game for the ages. Even more impressive considering how many drops our receivers had. JG has the fire in him. Open it up and let him throw.

Running the Trey package? Lol he had ONE zone read and NO ONE saw it coming. The other rushing TD was a busted play. Seriously I wonder if people actually watch the games at all...

What is it like to live so divorced from reality....

Can't remember a lot of designed QB runs to JG. We definitely saw it during the Arizona game. Kyle has that stuff on his play sheet now and figured what the heck and decided to dial it up for JG.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Made up stat

Googles what is average air yards

now your just googling what is IAY lol. Yeah next gen stats is just making stuff up. Your right avg depth of target isn't real life.

Hey man just say you don't like analytics. Just say you don't like any stat that doesn't make your hero look great, it's pretty clear you get super offend when anyone points out anything critical of him.

I guess I can just say any stat I don't like is made up

Ok... If I'm wrong show me the metrics that IAY means anything at all. Link me please to where IAY equates to points or anything... A single meaningful thing.

Lol Google doesn't even know

Bruh step up your google game. First, actually TYPE intended airyards per attempt. Second, put this next to it:

-fantasy.

That way you can get to the analytics sites that aren't interested in Fantasy Football.

Here's a quick Quara link. The first answer gives the rationale for the stat:

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-NFL-statistic-Air-Yards-mean-What-is-its-significance

"One of the developments recently is the attempt to separate the contribution of the receiver from the contribution of the quarterback, so they can be evaluated separately. One way to do that is to separate a passing play into "air yards" (the distance covered while the ball is in the air) and "yards after catch" (the portion of the play the receiver runs after catching the ball).

Consider two 30 yard touchdown catches — a screen pass where the receiver runs it all the way in, or a bomb to a wide open receiver already standing in the end zone. The former would have 0 air yards and 30 yards after catch; the latter would have 30 air yards and 0 yards after catch. YAC seems to have caught on more quickly because it identifies receivers who are good at making their own space with the ball, but air yards matter as well — a quarterback who's got 300 yards by taking chances downfield is probably a better quarterback than a guy who got 300 yards passing by throwing a bunch of 5-yard slants that his receivers turned into big gains; they'd both have 300 yards passing at the end of the day, but the first guy would have more air yards."

Thank you!

For years one of the golden stats for a QB was YPA BUT that didn't account for YAC. air yards simply takes away the YAC. IAY shows avg depth of each passing attempt regardless of completion.

Like every damn stat our there, it's just another quantifiable data point we can use to evaluate a player

— a quarterback who's got 300 yards by taking chances downfield is probably a better quarterback than a guy who got 300 yards passing by throwing a bunch of 5-yard slants that his receivers turned into big gains; they'd both have 300 yards passing at the end of the day, but the first guy would have more air yards."

Lol "probably". It still explains nothing and says probably lol ffs

There is literally no stat that is the end all be all when it comes to quantifying a player.

Yet you guys focus 90% of your hatred on one stat. Like right now... What are we talking about? Again...

I don't understand how you keep missing the point. The stat DOES tell us SOMETHING — it tells us exactly what it's supposed to: how much the QB is contributing to the yards of an average pass play.

That's never going to perfectly correlate with winning or losing, because some teams which have low IAYPA have dominant WRs, some dominant run games, some dominant defenses; some teams with a high IAYPA have terrible WRs, or bad coaching/playcalling (Mike Martz at his worst), or a QB who is too aggressive (maybe Jay Cutler?).

All that stat tells us is something we OUGHT to already know (but for some reason the Jimmy stans do not): Jimmy has relied on WRs getting YAC more than any other starting QB. This is obvious based on the film, but again, it seems to escape notice.

So we point to this quantifiable stat to try to remove the self-adhered BLINDFOLD you guys have. And because it's quantifiable and not deniable, you claim it's a "fantasy" stat. But we wouldn't be here if you just opened your eyes.

It tells us as much as the ALEX stat. Actually less as that's at least focused on 3rd downs.

No it doesn't. It's tells us basically the same thing as yards per attempt - yards after catch.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
A touchdown is a touchdown right? Jimmy played fantastic. Great game. But 300 yards and 2 touchdowns isnt a "game for the ages." This happens multiple times every week in the NFL.

Davis Mills has done this twice this season alone. Yes, Davis Mills.

Cooper Rush did this in his first career start. Yes, Cooper Rush.

Say that to the community that gets all lathered up over air yards.

Yards are yards.

And here's an example of terrible logic.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think JG was making a point out there. He was running the Trey package and doing it better than Trey to be honest. That was an absolute game for the ages. Even more impressive considering how many drops our receivers had. JG has the fire in him. Open it up and let him throw.

Running the Trey package? Lol he had ONE zone read and NO ONE saw it coming. The other rushing TD was a busted play. Seriously I wonder if people actually watch the games at all...

What is it like to live so divorced from reality....

Can't remember a lot of designed QB runs to JG. We definitely saw it during the Arizona game. Kyle has that stuff on his play sheet now and figured what the heck and decided to dial it up for JG.

I mean Jimmy running ONE zone read is not "the Trey package." That's ridiculous hyperbole.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:



Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

You mean other areas like throws to the sidelines? Cause I'm not sure Jimmy has completed one yet…

That's exactly what I'm referring to. Before anyone thinks I'm moving goalposts, I'm not the one that's been harping about going deep. I'm the one that posted a Next Gen passing chart and drew a half circle over the middle of the field to highlight how the SF passing offense won't target outside the numbers. And that's because I've noticed safeties cheating towards the middle of the field and smacking Deebo Kittle as soon as they catch a pass over the short/intermediate area.

I think I'm in the same camp as you tbh.

I really don't care if we're not throwing deep… the point is to be less like predictable. And that's exactly what we've been for most of the season.

I'm happy Jimmy was able to attack more parts of the field this game.

well said

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

It looked like CHI was in C4(I haven't seen the coaches film to confirm) and it was a Mills concept and the middle quarter safety jumped on the intermediate route.

I believe that's exactly what it was. You can tell Dwelley(?) ran the Dig and that opened up the Post.

The thing about throws to the outside, Kyle really only throws those as schemed up. He rarely likes just go routes from the outside gut- aiyuk was on a slot fade vs a safety when we targeted him, he likes post-corners off a PIN look and a lot of his Fades are only vs C2 and convert to stop routes or curls vs C1. Or sluggo routes

You can see he does these this way to open up other plays in his offense. That's why you really don't see the deep fade much. I'm not saying it's never, but it's more rare because it doesn't tie into other plays as well - like, throwing a deep fade vs C1 doesn't open up your Ohio or stick or stick-nod anymore than it would be vs those coverages. Every play Kyle has has something to pair off it.

Let's not talk about fades, and deep bombs. How about comebacks, deep outs, deep curls? Even though the name of the route has 'deep' in it, it's really just 13-15 yards in depth. The Blaze-Out route was something Kyle dialed up in the past, and I've seen Jimmy complete it to Goodwin (I can't find the gif). That's gone from the playbook. No idea why, but the 49ers should attack outside the numbers to alleviate traffic in the middle.



Check at the 0:07 mark. Blaze-out route. I wouldn't consider that 'deep', but it's an area of the field that has been forgotten about.

Consider the following:

Joe Flacco got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

Nick Foles got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

These guys are footnotes, and they did it. They played elite ball down the stretch. So, presumably, Jimmy could as well.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
A touchdown is a touchdown right? Jimmy played fantastic. Great game. But 300 yards and 2 touchdowns isnt a "game for the ages." This happens multiple times every week in the NFL.

Davis Mills has done this twice this season alone. Yes, Davis Mills.

Cooper Rush did this in his first career start. Yes, Cooper Rush.

Say that to the community that gets all lathered up over air yards.

Yards are yards.

And here's an example of terrible logic.

Bleacher report wrote a piece with the point that Tom Brady is declining. Piece is dated 2019. It used in part air yards to draw its conclusion. It's another example of terrible logic. And it has air yards.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

It looked like CHI was in C4(I haven't seen the coaches film to confirm) and it was a Mills concept and the middle quarter safety jumped on the intermediate route.

I believe that's exactly what it was. You can tell Dwelley(?) ran the Dig and that opened up the Post.

The thing about throws to the outside, Kyle really only throws those as schemed up. He rarely likes just go routes from the outside gut- aiyuk was on a slot fade vs a safety when we targeted him, he likes post-corners off a PIN look and a lot of his Fades are only vs C2 and convert to stop routes or curls vs C1. Or sluggo routes

You can see he does these this way to open up other plays in his offense. That's why you really don't see the deep fade much. I'm not saying it's never, but it's more rare because it doesn't tie into other plays as well - like, throwing a deep fade vs C1 doesn't open up your Ohio or stick or stick-nod anymore than it would be vs those coverages. Every play Kyle has has something to pair off it.

Let's not talk about fades, and deep bombs. How about comebacks, deep outs, deep curls? Even though the name of the route has 'deep' in it, it's really just 13-15 yards in depth. The Blaze-Out route was something Kyle dialed up in the past, and I've seen Jimmy complete it to Goodwin (I can't find the gif). That's gone from the playbook. No idea why, but the 49ers should attack outside the numbers to alleviate traffic in the middle.



Check at the 0:07 mark. Blaze-out route. I wouldn't consider that 'deep', but it's an area of the field that has been forgotten about.

Those are 13-15 yards in DEPTH, but they are further than a deep in. Enter Pythagoras.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
A touchdown is a touchdown right? Jimmy played fantastic. Great game. But 300 yards and 2 touchdowns isnt a "game for the ages." This happens multiple times every week in the NFL.

Davis Mills has done this twice this season alone. Yes, Davis Mills.

Cooper Rush did this in his first career start. Yes, Cooper Rush.

Say that to the community that gets all lathered up over air yards.

Yards are yards.

And here's an example of terrible logic.

Bleacher report wrote a piece with the point that Tom Brady is declining. Piece is dated 2019. It used in part air yards to draw its conclusion. It's another example of terrible logic. And it has air yards.

No you don't understand. You equated two things that aren't logically similar. When a QB throws a touchdown, the QB is responsible for the touchdown at least in part. When a QB runs for a touchdown, the QB is responsible for the touchdown at least in part.

But when a pass goes 80 yards and the QB throws it 60 yards, he is mostly responsible for the play. However, if he throws it -6 yards and it goes for 80 yards, the WR is mostly responsible for the play.

These are NOT the same kind of scenario. The goal here is to ascertain the portion of responsibility the QB has for the play. A QB who runs for a TD is responsible for carrying that ball over the goal line. But a QB who throws a screen is less responsible for an 80 yard pass than a QB who throws a streak that goes 80 yards.

.
.

I don't think it's possible to break that down any simpler for you, so I hope that's enough for you to understand.

As for Brady, there are always other things to consider, which is why you can NEVER only rely on statistics. THE EYE TEST tells you what you need to know, and watching the Patriots showed that he was still a good QB. And landing on the Bucs, I promise you having so many elite weapons has helped him. He's still good, still better than Jimmy, but he's getting lots of help too.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Consider the following:

Joe Flacco got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

Nick Foles got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

These guys are footnotes, and they did it. They played elite ball down the stretch. So, presumably, Jimmy could as well.

For sure this is the hope. Really hoping this was the confidence builder he needed moving forward. I do think his leash is hanging on by the thread and elimination from playoffs isn't the only thing that can move him to the bench permanently, injury as well of course. Really curious if they are seeing if there is a trade market for him as well