Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Consider the following:

Joe Flacco got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

Nick Foles got hot and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

These guys are footnotes, and they did it. They played elite ball down the stretch. So, presumably, Jimmy could as well.

I like the optimism but how about the rest of the team? You really think we could all of a sudden turn into a SB team, with our swiss cheese d? Even Jimmy playing at his best wouldn't be enough to overcome the team's deficiencies this year.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

It looked like CHI was in C4(I haven't seen the coaches film to confirm) and it was a Mills concept and the middle quarter safety jumped on the intermediate route.

I believe that's exactly what it was. You can tell Dwelley(?) ran the Dig and that opened up the Post.

The thing about throws to the outside, Kyle really only throws those as schemed up. He rarely likes just go routes from the outside gut- aiyuk was on a slot fade vs a safety when we targeted him, he likes post-corners off a PIN look and a lot of his Fades are only vs C2 and convert to stop routes or curls vs C1. Or sluggo routes

You can see he does these this way to open up other plays in his offense. That's why you really don't see the deep fade much. I'm not saying it's never, but it's more rare because it doesn't tie into other plays as well - like, throwing a deep fade vs C1 doesn't open up your Ohio or stick or stick-nod anymore than it would be vs those coverages. Every play Kyle has has something to pair off it.

Let's not talk about fades, and deep bombs. How about comebacks, deep outs, deep curls? Even though the name of the route has 'deep' in it, it's really just 13-15 yards in depth. The Blaze-Out route was something Kyle dialed up in the past, and I've seen Jimmy complete it to Goodwin (I can't find the gif). That's gone from the playbook. No idea why, but the 49ers should attack outside the numbers to alleviate traffic in the middle.



Check at the 0:07 mark. Blaze-out route. I wouldn't consider that 'deep', but it's an area of the field that has been forgotten about.

Goodwin feasted on those routes. Jimmy was very comfortable in those originally. Is it because of all the separation due to his speed being respected? Are our current guys not creating that much separation there?

Came here to watch people be bipolar about Jimmy.

look he was Jimmy Jesus yesterday he played good. He wasn't an elite quarterback yesterday he just played good. Truth be told Deebo and Mitchell did most of the heavy lifting. But regardless Jimmy played well. The problem with Jimmy is he can't do that all season. He never has.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
No you don't understand. You equated two things that aren't logically similar. When a QB throws a touchdown, the QB is responsible for the touchdown at least in part. When a QB runs for a touchdown, the QB is responsible for the touchdown at least in part.

But when a pass goes 80 yards and the QB throws it 60 yards, he is mostly responsible for the play. However, if he throws it -6 yards and it goes for 80 yards, the WR is mostly responsible for the play.

These are NOT the same kind of scenario. The goal here is to ascertain the portion of responsibility the QB has for the play. A QB who runs for a TD is responsible for carrying that ball over the goal line. But a QB who throws a screen is less responsible for an 80 yard pass than a QB who throws a streak that goes 80 yards.

.
.

I don't think it's possible to break that down any simpler for you, so I hope that's enough for you to understand.

As for Brady, there are always other things to consider, which is why you can NEVER only rely on statistics. THE EYE TEST tells you what you need to know, and watching the Patriots showed that he was still a good QB. And landing on the Bucs, I promise you having so many elite weapons has helped him. He's still good, still better than Jimmy, but he's getting lots of help too.

It's cool you use your air yards. I'm not knocking you or anyone else. To each his own as they say. For me that play to Deebo that was a bomb and the play to Deebo which was a screen on 3rd and long I celebrate them the same.

Cheers

?t=368

6:08

Aiyuk f**kin smokes his defender

Check out his passing distro chart from 2017. You see multiple dots along the sideline in every game. That's what I'm talking about (check week 15).
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jimmy-garoppolo/GAR363225/2017

Then 2021:
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jimmy-garoppolo/GAR363225/2021

It just looks very different. And the reason I link both years is to show that Jimmy can do it, but it's now missing from the offense.

Originally posted by thl408:
Check out his passing distro chart from 2017. You see multiple dots along the sideline in every game. That's what I'm talking about (check week 15).
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jimmy-garoppolo/GAR363225/2017

Then 2021:
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jimmy-garoppolo/GAR363225/2021

It just looks very different. And the reason I link both years is to show that Jimmy can do it, but it's now missing from the offense.

It's definitely more clustered to the middle. No doubt. And IIRC, he really liked that left sideline a lot.

It's hard to tease out Kyle, Jimmy and receiving personnel here.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jimmy completed a 50+ yard pass and this was the separation Deebo got on that play:

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

It looked like CHI was in C4(I haven't seen the coaches film to confirm) and it was a Mills concept and the middle quarter safety jumped on the intermediate route.

I believe that's exactly what it was. You can tell Dwelley(?) ran the Dig and that opened up the Post.

The thing about throws to the outside, Kyle really only throws those as schemed up. He rarely likes just go routes from the outside gut- aiyuk was on a slot fade vs a safety when we targeted him, he likes post-corners off a PIN look and a lot of his Fades are only vs C2 and convert to stop routes or curls vs C1. Or sluggo routes

You can see he does these this way to open up other plays in his offense. That's why you really don't see the deep fade much. I'm not saying it's never, but it's more rare because it doesn't tie into other plays as well - like, throwing a deep fade vs C1 doesn't open up your Ohio or stick or stick-nod anymore than it would be vs those coverages. Every play Kyle has has something to pair off it.

Let's not talk about fades, and deep bombs. How about comebacks, deep outs, deep curls? Even though the name of the route has 'deep' in it, it's really just 13-15 yards in depth. The Blaze-Out route was something Kyle dialed up in the past, and I've seen Jimmy complete it to Goodwin (I can't find the gif). That's gone from the playbook. No idea why, but the 49ers should attack outside the numbers to alleviate traffic in the middle.



Check at the 0:07 mark. Blaze-out route. I wouldn't consider that 'deep', but it's an area of the field that has been forgotten about.

Suse, but when people talk, "deep, outside the numbers" most will argue against a 13 yard comeback.

Last time I rember a blaze route was BUF in 2020.

That's a big trust route - Kyle has to trust that receiver, in the way we run it cause it's usually off max protect play action to look like a DIG. If that receiver doesn't win, you're screwed. With Aiyuk visibly hobbled week 1 and then struggling with route differentiation, I think that had a lot to do with it.

Deep comebacks, we ran one last game if I remember right. I think Kyle likes those vs C3 zone in a pole concept and we've been seeing a lot of man this year.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I think we agree on most points, esp how kyle is using Trey initially. My question is taking a guy with terrific talent who hasn't played one snap against the Big 12, SEC, PAC 12, etc, and then hasn't played in a yr with only 1 yr of college ball, and calling him a FR QB? Nobody will convince me of that. Now, is he a POTENTIAL FR QB? Sure, but he sure isn't a FR QB… and neither you nor anyone else knows if he is or isn't. We are all crossing our fingers and HOPING he is. It just seems a really strange (and expensive player capital way) to go about acquiring a FR QB. Stafford…that one i get. Trey? That one i don't. Fields, Mack jones at least had big league competition to gauge them by. With Trey we got no gauge against big time talent.

Like i said, i would have been happy wiht Trey or Mack at #12 (or 13, whichever.) Fields and his epilepsy was too big a medical step for me, altho he had competed in the BIGS against top flite competition. It came down to Trey or Mack for me but wouldn't have moved up for either. Could or would Trey have been gone at #12? Maybe, but with his minimal experience, all i saw was a lot of talent and no idea if he was as good as he seemed.

The lack of comparative big time competition, just made it hard to understand a move up for him. Lots of talented players made it thru 11-12 first rd picks, including Mahomes who Andy Reid moved up one slot for. That i could see. But not Trey at #3 . He wasn't the 3rd best player in the draft, and he may or may not have been the 3rd best qb. I am hoping he is the 1st or 2nd best QB. But there are a lot of "IFs" in there for that.

Whatever, it is a fait accompli, and is water under the bridge. I am happy wiht him as insurance for JG, and think kyle is bringing him along slowly which is he only way to do it. Fields, TRevor, and Zack (NYJ) were all thrown into the fire and may have been or are being ruined. Bad football IMO. So with Trey we will see…and hope… and if he is the FR QB, then , yes this was a terrific idea. I just wish there had been comps and a lot more experience before we acquired him the manner in which we did.

Maybe you don't understand how a guy like Lance could be worth it over guys like Mac and Fields, who had better college competition for a longer period of time, but ultimately that doesn't matter. The "Cant Miss" guys actually do miss pretty often, and the risky, "Who has he ever faced" college guys can actually translate, like Mahomes.

Fields got a lot of playing time at a big time school facing the best competition, going to major bowl games, etc., and he's looking abysmal so far. He looks no more ready for the NFL than Lance. I would actually argue Lance is ahead of Fields as a passer, which shows that college pedigree doesn't mean much after you're out of college and in the NFL.

Lance has checked a lot of boxes for me so far which make me excited for his future. His work ethic/drive is relentless. What kid wakes up early every day, gets ready, and then goes and wakes up his Dad to take him to train? The fact that hes 21, and didn't play last season, and is already moving through his progressions in a complicated NFL offense should be thrilling every Niner fan. His mindset and maturity is beyond his years. Were seeing a very rough version of him now that will become a pick that nobody will be second guessing in just a couple years.

Personally I'd see if we can get a trade offer for him
He's worth more than he will be in three games and we're not getting a penny if he finishes the season as a niner. We need as many draft picks as we can get

Originally posted by thl408:
My conclusion is to do it more often because I trust Deebo to make a play on the ball or prevent the INT.

I think the conversation in this thread is too focused on going deep. It's more about attacking all areas of the field, and while the deep Post is one area, it's not the one that will open up the middle of the field.

Thank you!!!!

that's all I've said but people hear the term air yards and have some made up idea of what that means.

Originally posted by NCommand:
We haven't had any of those guys HERE during Kyle's entire tenure here. Even Goodwin's speed was rarely used because he was a ghost route receiver used to free others up underneath. Once in a blue moon he'd be targeted deep on a deep post but Kyle's not drawing that up on a regular basis because that's not Goodwin's skill set.

Kyle's had 5 years to get ONE deep threat and has punted every single time for LOS separators and YAC monsters. Trey's in the house and he still didn't do it.

Are you sure that's what he wants or is that what he inherited and decided to use as an OC?

Hmmm wonder why? Who's been our QB for the majority of Kyle's time here? Jimmy was traded for halfway thru Kyle's 1st yr here.

I'll bet money when Lance takes over they add a deep threat, even though Deebo/Aiyuk can most certainly catch deep balls.

Originally posted by fan49:
Personally I'd see if we can get a trade offer for him
He's worth more than he will be in three games and we're not getting a penny if he finishes the season as a niner. We need as many draft picks as we can get

At this point hes worth more to us than anyone else. Lance isnt ready, or we'd have moved on already. If Lance isnt ready, Shanahan isn't throwing him out there. Garoppolo is the perfect fit for the current iteration of this team. We can win now and develop Lance correctly. Who cares about the 3rd rounder someone gives us for Jimmy if Lance gets ruined by starting too early?

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL.

His "speed" hasn't been used anywhere else either. Odd huh? And he was Jimmy's original go-to receiver.

he had to be his go-to because gracon got hurt. Another 4.45 guy that had no problem catching balls outside of 10 yards in DC

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We haven't had any of those guys HERE during Kyle's entire tenure here. Even Goodwin's speed was rarely used because he was a ghost route receiver used to free others up underneath. Once in a blue moon he'd be targeted deep on a deep post but Kyle's not drawing that up on a regular basis because that's not Goodwin's skill set.

Kyle's had 5 years to get ONE deep threat and has punted every single time for LOS separators and YAC monsters. Trey's in the house and he still didn't do it.

Are you sure that's what he wants or is that what he inherited and decided to use as an OC?

Hmmm wonder why? Who's been our QB for the majority of Kyle's time here? Jimmy was traded for halfway thru Kyle's 1st yr here.

I'll bet money when Lance takes over they add a deep threat, even though Deebo/Aiyuk can most certainly catch deep balls.

I like deep balls